Problem with Favorites vs. Manual Recordings

RAlfieri · #1 10-21-2005, 07:38 AM

I recently went away on a trip to come home and find I had a RED conflict between one of my Favorites (E.R.) and a manually recorded program.

At the time I selected the manually recorded program based on some keywords, no conflict was indicated by SageTV.

I believe that Favorites should ALWAYS trump any other recordings unless I have specifically chosen to override Favorites at the time the manual is selected (which is an option that currently does not exist.)

How can I ensure that my Favorites always outweigh any other factors if a conflict is not resolved by air time (i.e. I'm not around...)

Regards,
Rob

nielm · #2 10-21-2005, 07:50 AM

Manual recordings always override favorites -- they are the 'highest priority' recording mode.
Favorites are only scheduled 3 days ahead by default, so no conflict will be detected immediatly if you schedule a manrec in a week's time.

Try my webserver plugin for resolving recording conflicts when on the road (plug!)

RAlfieri · #3 10-21-2005, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nielm

Manual recordings always override favorites -- they are the 'highest priority' recording mode.
Favorites are only scheduled 3 days ahead by default, so no conflict will be detected immediatly if you schedule a manrec in a week's time.

Try my webserver plugin for resolving recording conflicts when on the road (plug!)

Thanks... however, I prefer the user have the choice of having favorites override manuals or vice versa. I'm hoping Sage will address this.

(And I will take a look at your plug-in!

)

nielm · #4 10-21-2005, 11:21 AM

It is very unlikely that Sage will reverse this: Manual records are used for one-time favorite overrides in conflict mgmt...

dvd_maniac · #5 10-21-2005, 11:33 AM

If you only have a small to decent amount of Favorites, you could increase the number of days the schedule looks ahead from 3 to 14 days. This way if you see something you want to record manually it will tell you right away if a favorite is scheduled and show the conflict. You could then cancel the manual recording right there.

Some people have a problem with Sage taking too long or freezing when started if they have ALOT of Favorites that are on a lot though.

BobPhoenix · #6 10-21-2005, 11:52 AM

You could also use "additional airings" in the favorite and make your favorites all manual recordings before you leave. Then conflicts will show up immediately.

BobP.

RAlfieri · #7 10-21-2005, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nielm

It is very unlikely that Sage will reverse this: Manual records are used for one-time favorite overrides in conflict mgmt...

One of the positives for Microsoft Media Center was that Series recordings always took precedent. Sage needs to look out farther than 3 days for conflicts as well. I have since changed the lookahead out to 14 days to help mitigate this issue; although Sage says that anything over the 3 days default is not supported.

I believe that this should be a user configurable setting. It should not be that difficult to make this an option.

Regards,
Rob

RAlfieri · #8 10-21-2005, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvd_maniac

Some people have a problem with Sage taking too long or freezing when started if they have ALOT of Favorites that are on a lot though.

I have 28 favorites and so far so good. I guess it depends on memory and horsepower. I also do not use Intelligent Recording.

Regards,
Rob

dvd_maniac · #9 10-21-2005, 02:46 PM

You would notice the problem only when starting SageTV. If you have started up and see the UI or Tray Icon then you are fine. I think it has to do with how many scheduled recordings it has to account for. So you could have a lot of favorites that are on only once a week and have no problems. I think it's when you have alot of favorites that are on several times a week. I have had it at 14 for months now without issue and I typically have 110 recordings per week.

ke6guj · #10 10-21-2005, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvd_maniac

You would notice the problem only when starting SageTV. If you have started up and see the UI or Tray Icon then you are fine.

I disagree with that statement. My system with ~300 favorites would start the UI just fine while at the same time failing to compile a favorites list. Sage would be running at 99% and the "recording schedule" would be empty.

Also, sometimes the recording schedule would fail to update after Sage had been running for an extended timeframe. If you looked at the schedule, it would still have listed programs that ended hours ago, not schedule new programs, and Sage would be stuck at 99% again.

Now, with a favorites list of 28, you should have no problems bumping up the lookahead, but with a big list, be careful.

Goodspike · #11 10-21-2005, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ke6guj

I disagree with that statement. My system with ~300 favorites would start the UI just fine while at the same time failing to compile a favorites list..

Wow, 300 favorites? You need a feature that allows you to just tell Sage what you don't like!

dvd_maniac · #12 10-21-2005, 08:04 PM

I stand corrected. I never had a problem myself. I was just going on memory of what I read. Thanx for letting me know...

TwistedMelon · #13 10-22-2005, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nielm

It is very unlikely that Sage will reverse this: Manual records are used for one-time favorite overrides in conflict mgmt...

Manual recordings *SHOULD* have highest priority. If you don't want the manual recording to record, then don't make it.

This isn't what's causing the problem. The problem is the disparity between schedule look-out times. Manual recordings can be done 14 days out with the EPG and favorites only go out 3 days. That's a significant problem.

Sage is just about the best PVR package available for Windows, but like every other package it misses a few basic features/rules that TiVo perfected back in 1999.

Automatic scheduling/favorites needs to go out the full length of the guide data. In most cases, 14 days. This isn't something that should be modified by users, this is something that should be engineered to work smoothly and be fully supported by Sage.

I'm not going to stop using Sage if that change doesn't come, but it's one of my biggest gripes with the software. Hopefully we'll see a point release after 3.0 that addresses issues like this and other interface inconsistencies (such as "Watch Live TV" not actually going to Live TV.

Bruno

RAlfieri · #14 10-22-2005, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedMelon

Manual recordings *SHOULD* have highest priority. If you don't want the manual recording to record, then don't make it.

I totally disagree. The fact that series/favorites/season passes have top priority is standard in leading DVR applications, such as TIVO and Windows Media Center. This is a de facto standard behavior. No one wants to miss out on an episode of a series/favorite. They want the DVR software to schedule around it.

Regards,
Rob

mlbdude · #15 10-22-2005, 02:03 PM

Actually, in every windows PVR I have used (using MCE right now) Manual recordings have priority. In fact, on my cable company DVR it is like that too.

RAlfieri · #16 10-22-2005, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlbdude

Actually, in every windows PVR I have used (using MCE right now) Manual recordings have priority. In fact, on my cable company DVR it is like that too.

I find that odd. I've been using it for years and I have never had a manual recording override a series. Manual recordings either immediately prompted for conflict resolution, or the conflict recording was listed underneath the priority series recording with an icon noting there is a conflict with the one listed above.

mlbdude · #17 10-22-2005, 08:18 PM

For mine it seems to go by date I added the recording. The first one set will try and record. However, you always get the conflict screen so in general with MCE I just tell it what to do right there.

waynedunham · #18 10-22-2005, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAlfieri

I totally disagree. The fact that series/favorites/season passes have top priority is standard in leading DVR applications, such as TIVO and Windows Media Center. This is a de facto standard behavior. No one wants to miss out on an episode of a series/favorite. They want the DVR software to schedule around it.

Manual recordings have the highest priority on ReplayTv. IMHO that's the way it should work, by making a manual recording you're saying "No matter WHAT, I don't want to miss this!". Whereas favorites, IR, etc are a "Hey if you can fit this in, I like these shows".

BTW, Opus4 might not like me saying this, but depending on your lineup (# of channels), cpu power, and # of favorites, you can probably get away with bumping up the scheduling look ahead.
I've got a single lineup of analog cable (approx 75-80 channels), about 60 favorites, IR is ON, 4 tuners (2 PVR-500s) running on a 2.8ghz P4 with 1 gig ram. I've got the look ahead bumped up to 7 days which is typically how far ahead I schedule things to record.

Initially it was very sluggish at building the programs to record, but now that it's settled in it's not too bad. A tad sluggish when you first boot up Sage, but I don't do that very often so it's not a huge deal. Otherwise response isn't exactly "perky" going through the sheduled recordings, but it's not molasses either.

Of course YMMV. Make sure you save the default value so you can plug it back in if you have troubles.

Opus4 · #19 10-22-2005, 10:38 PM

Oh sure... try to pull me into this!

Quote:

Originally Posted by waynedunham

BTW, Opus4 might not like me saying this...

heh, why would I care... there's nothing illegal or rude about it.

I use a 5-day lookahead, but SageTV is only going to officially support the normal 3-day lookahead -- meaning if you increase that time & have problems, it is up to you to put it back to normal. I don't know for certain, but I'm guessing the level of success w/an increased lookahead depends on a mixture of # channels, # favs, # tuners... and how many of all your shows air at the same times.

- Andy

waynedunham · #20 10-23-2005, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Opus4

Oh sure... try to pull me into this!

heh, why would I care... there's nothing illegal or rude about it.

I use a 5-day lookahead, but SageTV is only going to officially support the normal 3-day lookahead -- meaning if you increase that time & have problems, it is up to you to put it back to normal. I don't know for certain, but I'm guessing the level of success w/an increased lookahead depends on a mixture of # channels, # favs, # tuners... and how many of all your shows air at the same times.

I wasn't trying to "pull you in", just figured it would get a reply from you stating that Sage would only support the 3 day lookahead. Which you just did.

Another reason I bumped it up is because of IR. I found that with the 3 day lookahead I'd suddenly end up with a lot of stuff I didn't want whenever I'd manually record something different and didn't check the scheduled recordings often.
I.e. I'd record a specific episode of a cooking show on the Food Network and IR would suddenly think I liked all cooking shows and my recordings would fill up with 24 hours of the Food Network.

With a longer look ahead I could usually see them coming well enough in advance to mull through and mark watched or don't like to clear up the list.

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