Time sync and padding

[nathanwray]

I second the request for default not time syncing to Sage. Unless Sage can provide the network time matching the cable provider I select. When I use NNTP time or Sage time with WideOpenWest cable in MI I lose the last minute of the program. I've manually tweaked the system clock to match my cable provider and this seems to be working OK.

Actually, I know my cable box and my VCR both pick up the time and date from the cable signal. Is this data available from the tuner cards? Syncing to the video provider is all that matters.

Note: This thread was split from the SageTV 2.2.5 RC thread, since that should be about beta issues & this topic seems to have gotten away from that. - Opus4

[White94Cobra]

How about an adjustment option so that when Sage syncs the time, it sets it xx minutes ahead or behind. That way your PC stays updated with the correct time, but takes into account your manual change to match the cable provider.

[zz5]

So you're thinking that all the channels are off from real time??

That seems really weird to me. The cable company would have to be buffering all those channels. What would happen with sports? The signal wouldn't be live and if you were watching the video without sound and listening to the play-by-play from the radio it would be out of sync.

[CyRex]

I was having that problem too. I ended up DLing a utility called PC Atomic Sync (or something like that) that will sync the PC time with an atomic clock time server. Not that impressive or special by itself, but the real benefit is the ability to add an offset in minutes and seconds for your clock. I have mine set for an offset of 35 seconds, which I find works well for my setup. Before, I was consistently missing the first 10 or so seconds of a lot of shows. I would rather be sure to catch the beginning and miss a little bit off the end, since the last minute (at least) is credits and / or commercials.

It would be nice if this feature was built into Sage or implemented through an STV (if thats possible). I like having as few things running as possible...

-Dan

[Opus4]

If anyone's time is off, I think it would be a network, not the local cable provider. (Well, the cable provider's time could be off too, but I mean they should simply be passing along the signal they receive from the networks regardless of how their clocks are set.) Haven't people mentioned around here before that some particular channel is always off by X minutes, while others are on time? That would be the network not airing things on time & no global time offset will be able to fix that for every channel that is received. No matter how accurate your system time is, that's part of the reason for padding: catch the portions of shows that aren't aired within the expected time slot.

Rather than trying to sync the system time with a cable provider/network, I would like to see some sort of global padding option so that all shows automatically get the padding added to the recording if there isn't already another recording scheduled immediately before or after that one. That would be an 'optional' global padding feature to go along with Manual Recording/Favorite must-have padding feature. Then, you would just set your PC to some standard time (such as via an atomic clock utility) and let it go from there.

- Andy

[NickSD]

Originally Posted by Opus4

I would like to see some sort of global padding option so that all shows automatically get the padding added to the recording if there isn't already another recording scheduled immediately before or after that one. That would be an 'optional' global padding feature to go along with Manual Recording/Favorite must-have padding feature.

Excellent idea! I second that.

[bhageman]

I would like to have some "padding" functionality to handle when shows run slightly longer. For example, the show "Lost" runs 61 minutes, so Sage doesn't record "West Wing" unless I manually move the start time back one minute.

My suggestion would be that there is a global "padding" value (typically 3-5 minutes). With the ability to select a default mode (finish first recording, start second recording on time, or flag as a conflict).

I would like to see some sort of global padding option so that all shows automatically get the padding added to the recording if there isn't already another recording scheduled immediately before or after that one. That would be an 'optional' global padding feature to go along with Manual Recording/Favorite must-have padding feature.

[abasu2003]

When the show Lost runs an extra minute or two, its included in teh EPG service usually.

[bhageman]

Yes it does appear correctly as 61 minutes in the EPG data, but there is no way to tell Sage that I would always rather miss the first minute of favorite than have Sage not record one of the two shows.

Originally Posted by abasu2003

When the show Lost runs an extra minute or two, its included in teh EPG service usually.

[White94Cobra]

Sounds like "soft padding" I have it on my hacked Tivo and LOVE it. If a tuner isn't busy, it records X number of minutes early and Y number of minutes late. It dynamically adjusts based on tuner availability and conflicts.

[stanger89]

Sage has soft padding, at least for back to back favorites.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Sage has soft padding, at least for back to back favorites.

Yes, but I'm talking about a global soft padding that doesn't even interfere with the scheduling process -- simply have it start/stop with N extra minutes if there is nothing recording before/after the show on that tuner. There would be no way for that to cause a conflict and it would work for IR too. Global hard padding, on the other hand, would _have_ to be part of every show & could cause a conflict unless (optionally) shows are back to back on the same channel, just like you can do with favs currently.

- Andy

[bones71]

I used to use ultimate tv and it handled this really well the recordings would overlap the end of one show would have the beginning of another and the beginning of one would have the ending from the first I guess it would write to two files at the same time. It was very nice never had to search for what was the next show recorded to catch the end of a show.

[teedublu]

Most people understand the basic prinicple of setting the clock a little fast so you don't miss the first few secs of a show. I've done it for years with VCRs.

There should be a global setting to simply set Sage to record X seconds early (or late, but that would warrant a Are U Sure? prompt) from the system clock.

Then if you want to get into Padding, then that's another set of settings that Extends the recording duration.

TW

[nathanwray]

Originally Posted by zz5

So you're thinking that all the channels are off from real time??

When I let my PC sync to time.nist.gov, or to sage, I notice that my PC clock runs almost a full minute faster than the clock on my cable box. I assume the cable box clock is set from the provider's XDS data, like an autoset VCR.

TV programming seems to be running with the cable provider's clock, so when I let it sync automatically I get the tail end of the previous show and miss the end of every program. I fixed it by disabling updates and manually syncing my pc to the cable box clock.

It is wierd that Wide Open West runs a late clock, I don't know if they are running a delay or what. How they handle live broadcasting is a good question.

If the XDS clock data is available via a directshow API I would like to sync with that, otherwise autosync'ing with a manually specified offset would be nice. I hate to think my clock is going to start drifting.

[glbrown]

I think we are all chasing a ghost. These networks are broadcasting when they feel like it. I am convinced they are syncing their clocks to the hippy dippy weatherman

[nielm]

I watch this thread with mild amusement: your shows are broadcast 1 minute off from scheduled/real time?

Over here in Yurp, depending on the channel, I regularly get shows that start and finish 5-15 minutes off schedule, and late at night, shows can be at least half an hour off from scheduled time

All my favorites are set up with at least 5 mins prefix padding, and 15 minutes postfix padding... Makes for interesting conflict management!

[dooferlad]

Did anything come of this? Are we to expect a defaut soft padding for all shows (predictive record / one off / favourite)? I normally don't have any problems, but over the last week UK TV seems to be slipping and I have lost the last two minutes of several shows!

[nathanwray]

Regarding the initial request, there isn't a good fix so far. Right now I am running with Sage's time sync turned off, and windows time sync turned off. I manually adjust my system clock about once every other week, it drifts about 20 seconds a week. I haven't been able to find a (free) time client that lets you add or subtract a padding to the system clock.

[nielm]

I have written a default padding plugin that sets padding automatically for one-off (manual) records and new favorites, but does not affect IR records.