Beyond Media Shipping ...

[mightyt]

New Sage competitor as of 12/1 ...

http://www.snapstream.com/Products/b...ia/default.asp

Any thoughts?

T.

[Cayars]

Over priced.

[JasonJoel]

Although I don't like discussing products on competitors forums... I don't exactly see this product as a 'competitor' to Sage, even if it is from a company that does make a competing product. So...

I like the product. Think it is somewhat over priced, though.

However, for media use, I'll stick with J River Media Center (even if it ISN'T integrated).

Bottom line though, is that I just don't need all of that capability/flexibility for *my* HTPC. So I'll pass.

Jason Bottjen

[Fluffdaddy]

Originally Posted by Cayars

Over priced.

Really ?

I think it's priced about right. Could be 10 bucks cheaper...................and most likely will be in a month or so.

[Fluffdaddy]

Originally Posted by JasonJoel

Bottom line though, is that I just don't need all of that capability/flexibility for *my* HTPC. So I'll pass.

Jason Bottjen

Nether did I, so I will be passing as will. Sagetv and PowerDVD is all the software my HTPC needs for now.

[mlbdude]

First version is not too impressive due to the competition, however, when they get BM and BTV integrated it will be something to look at. If only they could work on some of the PVR featuers in BTV!

[Deadbolt]

Have they already released their SDK? There are lots of plugins (POP3/http mail, movie theater times, etc) and skins. Just wondering.

[mlbdude]

Originally Posted by Deadbolt

Have they already released their SDK? There are lots of plugins (POP3/http mail, movie theater times, etc) and skins. Just wondering.

Yes they have and SDK. The quality of the plugins are typical of user created plugins. The SKins are all the same right now with different images but I think it is because people don't know how to make them yet.

[7up]

as both STV and BTV advance and evolve with similar feature sets wouldn't it make more sense for people to choose the product which allows for greater customization, ie plug-ins and skins?

[sleonard]

I haven't tried it out yet but I intend to d/l the trial version. Personally, I like the fact that the PVR app is seperate to the front-end/media player app but designed to integrate with each other. I also like that BM has a defined plug-in architecture and SDK. I like that BM can play a large number of media formats natively, esp. Windows Media. Last, I like that it has been released! (Where, oh where, is Studio?)

I would like to see Sage follow the same basic architecture, i.e. - SageTV does only what it does best, PVR/TV server and a seperate SageMedia app that is a full-featured media server, player and front-end. I wouldn't mind paying more if I could get a Sage media player that is as good as SageTV. As it stands right now, I will be trying out Beyond Media and Meedio instead of waiting any longer for a long-delayed Studio that probably will never support extending the crappy media player that is now included.

[mlbdude]

Originally Posted by 7up

as both STV and BTV advance and evolve with similar feature sets wouldn't it make more sense for people to choose the product which allows for greater customization, ie plug-ins and skins?

Depends on what you are looking for. Take Meedio for example. The majority of the plugins are written poorly and don't work well. The core supported product is what counts. The other stuff is great, but more of a possible bonus.

[Brett]

Originally Posted by Deadbolt

Have they already released their SDK? There are lots of plugins (POP3/http mail, movie theater times, etc) and skins. Just wondering.

I don't really want to push SnapStream products on this forum, but I did want to clearify something. Only a real basic SDK is released right now, so people are kind of using the various opensource plugins to make new ones. A more detailed SDK has been in the works, and is coming around.

Mlbdude is correct about the skins, its kind of what I said about the plugin. They really just do not have ALL the information available yet how to make truly unique skins (other than the basic changes of fonts and images) but the ability does exist. That said there are several different skins out.

-Brett

[mightyt]

Originally Posted by JasonJoel

I don't like discussing products on competitors forums...

Actually I thought this is the best place for consumers to discuss ... Though not on this forum, you can bet the Frey guys are smart enough to watch what others are doing ...

DGMW ... My intent is/was not at all to ding Frey or sell SnapStream ... I have been sold on Sage for some time ... However, it is always good to compare product features and capabilities and see what others more HTPC literate than myself think. We can also evaluate where Sage can be improved or leads the pack as it relates to when a new HTPC release comes out.

So far I see some good discussion points ...

JMHO ... T.

[JasonJoel]

Yeah, I was using a competitors product for a long time in conjunction with Sage in order to get support for more media types (namely windows media).

However, since I now exclusively use the Sage Media MVP client my viewing (which does not support other media types anyway), I just am sticking with Sage now.

The only place I would like to see Sage (and the industry in general) go is more HDTV recording support. I understand there are hardware issues (and technology issues) putting roadblocks in the way. I just hope eventually we get an acceptable HDTV recording solution IN SAGE. But I don't plan on getting an HDTV for a few years, so I have time.

Ok, enough thread-jacking. heh. Sorry.

Jason Bottjen

[mls]

Originally Posted by mightyt

My intent is/was not at all to ding Frey or sell SnapStream ...

From my view point, it wouldn't matter what your intent was as long as you were open and honest. After all, what good would it do if everyone in this forum said SageTV was the greatest thing since sliced bread and never said there was anything wrong with it, then have a 1,000 people buy and find out it either doesn't do what they want/need or is a total piece of crap?

No progress every is made if nobody says anything at all or covers up things just to avoid an issue. If you look around the forum you will find I've been very outspoken on a number of things. Occasionally I do go a bit too far and one of the Mods does inform me when I do. On rare occasions even deletes a post I made and informs me why. I appreciate and respect them for doing so.

The only downside to this forum is that fact that it is just a "users forum". Because Frey Tech. is a small company they don't get a chance to read each and every post here, but they do get some feedback about general issues and user's feelings from the Mods.

Sure we're all bound to bump heads every now and then and disagree on something. That's just life. Even though we may not always agree on which things are most important, or which things should be changed, or even which software is better or has more features, saying nothing at all will never benifit anyone.

People that do and say things get things done, those that don't have to live with the decisions made by the others.

[chrysek]

hey!!!! wow, I just downloaded Beyond TV and I love it, Sage should learn from what they did, installation process could never be simpler, if Sage wants to sell more copies they must make it as user friendly as possible and Beyond TV they did it so user friendly.... Its almost as TiVO, simple and easy to use. I like functionality of Sage much more so I do not think that I will switch but believe me if they continue like this they will rock this PVR software market…

See the key is to make it as stable as possible and as easy as possible for people who aren't computer friendly to be able to use it. So what that I do have knowledge of computers if my wife is complaining constantly that "TV just crashed" or she does not know how to use this thing….

Once again, TiVo is simple, that is why people like it. Why do I like Sage? Because I can expand it as much as I only want to, it does record in mpeg so I can take those recordings and I can do whatever I want with them… I have a freedom to record what I want and how I want it…

After testing Beyond TV for a little while today I find many features that are better than sage (installation for example is the most important one), how TV guide is scrolled as you move along, or how you fast forward or rewind with this time shifting so you always will get to the point in the recording where you wanted.. They have commercial skips, I don’t know how accurate they are but they do have such…

Pricing option sucks and I had some stability problems as well where gui did crash on me…

Sage and STV and web plug-in is still my favorite although I am giving beyond TV a try since I want this easy functionality of the PVR as simple as it can be…

I will also try Meedio when they will came out with TV option, I think it is already in beta to see but will wait…

Chris

[jominor]

Originally Posted by chrysek

hey!!!! wow, I just downloaded Beyond TV and I love it, Sage should learn from what they did, installation process could never be simpler, if Sage wants to sell more copies they must make it as user friendly as possible and Beyond TV they did it so user friendly.... Its almost as TiVO,
Chris

I agree that BTV has a better installation, but for me, Sage is just far more stable. I had cases where BTV would not change channels.

And Sage's always record, to me, is just plain superior. If you want to keep a show after it has started, but you neglected to hit the manual record for BTV, you are out of luck.

[bluenote]

Hi all

Something that is worrisome to me is that in my mind, marketshare = future development opportunities.

Personally, I had been thinking about learning about PC PVR and such, but never got around to it. Then one day I was walking through Future Shop (Canada big retail A/v, computer, electronics outlet) and I saw the "Beyond TV" boxed software. Luckily, I resisted the urge to buy it (from the box it sounded like exactly what I wanted) and downloaded the trial, and then subsequently found out it didn't have a couple of KEY features I wanted (specificly having favourites be defined as ANY channel any time slot). Since then finding out that Sage takes advantage of the 350 properly is a big plus for me also.

Having said all that, having beyond tv in retail stores tells me that beyond tv is going to snap up a LOT of market share. Sage needs to be ramping up their marketing and so forth or they will be left in the dust. I want to continue to use Sage, but if we're feeling like the dev team might be spread thin (I dont think its just me thinking this) then this certainly will not *improve* if Beyond TV is snapping up the market and Sage is left on the side lines.

Frey marketing people take note FWIW. I love this s/w but you tell me -- it sounds to me like a lot of users here feel that Sage is for the DIYer, but it wouldn't take much for you to compete directly with Beyond TV's great wide audience market share. I don't want to see this s/w slide into decline because it's too niche. ???

PS. As I've seen suggested here before, I will add my voice to the suggestion: get some professional interface advice. It wouldn't be much, but as I'm sure everyone agrees, core competencies are important. Interface can be *very* important. A LOT can be discovered by asking a new user how many times their intuitive expectation for features and interface functionality meets with failure. I found on my first few uses of sage that there were a lot of areas where my intuitive expecation was not fulfilled for how to use the interface. Not that the functionality wasn't there, but there are areas where the interface could match more closely the natural intuitive expectation for how to use the interface. (Clear as mud? just trying to help)

What does everyone else think about the whole Beyond-TV retail presence? Feel secure using sage? I do right now, but I'm worried about the future.

Cory

[mightyt]

Originally Posted by cnovak

What does everyone else think about the whole Beyond-TV retail presence? Feel secure using sage? I do right now, but I'm worried about the future.

Cory

Retail presence would be nice just to show the masses that Sage is a lead contender ... That being said, remember Dell made its mark and still does, by "not" by selling in retail. And last I heard they were still a leader in the PC market. I think it's all about price, quality and marketing. To me the price point is fine; the PVR side is more stable than others and has many features others don't have. Sure it could use a face lift and a little nip/tuck, but overall it has been a solid product. Many would love to see some of the great forum customizations become part of the out of the box experience with Sage and of course the lingering wish for a better MP3 player still exists. So, that addresses quality.

Guess I’d have to say yea it would be good to be able to send someone to Fry's to check out boxed Sage ... that would ratchet up a notch on the marketing scale.

Who knows ... maybe the back room deals are taking place right now!

In any case, I do like reading the thoughts of others when comparing features and functions accross the PVR board ...

T.

[parkimar]

Depends on what you are looking for. Take Meedio for example. The majority of the plugins are written poorly and don't work well. The core supported product is what counts. The other stuff is great, but more of a possible bonus.

I use Meedio and Sage TV, a lot of the plugins are very good, and most are now stable. And they have a system which they can develop.

Be careful about dismissing competing products that blithly.
It maybe that Frey only gave Studio to experienced programmmers (Which would explain the high quality of the STV's) , but there are a LOT of plugins and themes being developed over at Meedio. And thier TV product will eventually arrive.

Cheers

Mark