Sage is deleting my files !! Yikes, Help!!

[bschulze]

I have Sage 2.0 and was following the instruction on how to move recorded shows to another directory. I created a new one (folder) under the General menu (same HD.) I was trying to move them from the Frey /Sage/Video folder to something like c:\TV Files. After defining it I shut down Sage and moved the files. When I started Sage, it deleted all of them but two files in my new directory "c:\TV Files"

Bad new is, I lost lots of movies and some of my favorite shows that I haven't watched yet, and some shows I was saving for my Dad over the Hollidays. Good new, if you can call it that, my new directory is now defined and working. I undefined the video folder after that.

Also, when I define more than one directory on the same hard drive, malores disk space meter shows double the amount available. Maybe a small bug there.

Thanks, everyone for reading my novel!!

Bjorn

[Opus4]

You're at least the 2nd person who is saying you weren't able to move the recordings this way & I don't know why that sort of file move is working for some people & not for others. Did it actually delete the files on the drive, though, or did it move them to the import Video Library screen? I think that even 2.0 should have imported them rather than delete them.

I may have to recommend that the files be coped to the new dir & the old ones temporarily renamed to something like <filename>.bak. Once the files are seen in the new location, you can delete the bak files.

I wouldn't recommend using more than 1 video dir on the same drive. When space is calculated internally, SageTV checks the amount of space available for each video dir. If they are on the same drive, then the same free space gets reported twice. Besides that, I'm not sure what purpose 2 vide dirs on the same drive would serve, other than for when recordings are being moved.

- Andy

[bschulze]

I will double check and see if it moved them into the c:\Program Files\ Frey Tech... directory tree. It certainly did remove them from where I put them in the c:\TV Files directory though !!

It may be a good idea to alter your recommendation to use some sort of backup strategy until the functionality is verified. Even an old IT dog like myself should have known better, however I, in my wildest dreams, didn't expect the app to delete my files. There is no indication that Sage would delete files upon starting except by navigation of the app and only with verification (as it does today.)

You are correct about the two video directories. The only reason I defined the second one was to move files out of the default location and then remove that location to only, once again, have one directory. When I create DVD's and other content it is nicer to hit "c:\TV Files" than navigating through the install directory of the Sage app.

Thanks for all your input, I really appreciate your time.

[Opus4]

Yeah, I was planning to add another warning to that FAQ. The thing is: it shouldn't be deleting files OR moving them to the library when you do this. I've moved files around MANY times & have never had one deleted. I don't remember seeing comments about not being able to move recordings until recently. (Maybe I'm getting forgetful?) Even when there was the problem where the old video dir wasn't visible, the file was just ignored instead of deleted.

Some time previously, unknown videos in a video dir were deleted & that is what the use_errant_dir=true property setting was for, but at some point in v2.0, that was changed so that the unknown videos were imported rather than deleted.

Oh -- have you tried undeleting the files? Of course, maybe it is too late now.

Edit: I've added some big bold print warnings to the start of that FAQ entry.

- Andy

[mls]

Wouldn't some of this depend on what setting for allowed disk space is for the new folder? I mean, if you have say 60Gig of videos and set up a new folder that is only set to allow up to 10Gig... if you move all the videos to the new folder wouldn't SageTV just start deleting things until it gets below the 10Gig limit again?

Maybe this is what's happening. Just guessing.

[Opus4]

Now, wouldn't it be bad if the one thing I figured was too obvious is the cause for this one?? But, in v2.1, new video directories default to Use All & I believe v2.0 did the same thing. Also, if any of them were Manual Recordings, they shouldn't have been deleted regardless of whether the files in that dir went over the limit. It would still be interesting to see if any of these settings had been changed from the default.

I even thought about that too in kny3twalker's thread... but his recordings were not deleted, they were imported instead. [where's that smilie indicating head scratching... and I don't just mean ]

- Andy

[mls]

Ya, I find this all rather confusing also with some getting files deleted and others having them show up Imported. Several months ago I was just playing around with some things with v2.0 (on a seperate hard drive setup of just for testing stuff).

Back then I had noticed both of these things happening myself, but I never paid attention as to under which circumstances. Since I was just testing other ideas, I hadn't really bothered to pay any attention to this part of things. Besides, I did have my normal setup all safely set up on a different drive so whatever files got lost on the test drive were not important (removable drives are a lot of fun for testing stuff).

Unfortunately, I've clutter up all my spare drives now with other stuff I do want to keep. Otherwise, I'd just pop in one of my spares and try things to figure out what is going on. Kind of sorry I can't do that at the moment though.

Maybe the difference in how it behaves depends on if the new folder is on the same drive or on a different drive. If on the same drive, that could confuse SageTV as to how much drive space is left, but not sure which way it would try to work around that.

Anyway, we are missing something about how this is (or is not) working for moving the files.

[bschulze]

So much input, thanks everyone.

I can not undelete them as they were deleted permanently via some OS command. At least they are not in my trash-bin. I can look into an undelete utility, that could work!!

As far as the free space thresholds goes, I don't think so, in any case it would be the opposite, since adding a second directory on the same hard drive actually makes Sage think it has twice the space. I don't want to rule the second driectory on the same disk theory out though, since I have had this happen before to me, but just like the person that posted on this thread (mls,) I didn't pay too much attention at the time.

To me, it doesn't matter too much anymore. I am at peace !!

But it sure naggs me a little, what if my primary disk fills and I move my files to network storage - start Sage and puff.. all my files are gone.

Anyway, I think I will upgrade to 2.1 now.

Thanks guys.

[mls]

Think I found something that may shed a small bit of light on what's been happening (maybe).

Since I currently don't have any spare drives (or drive space for that matter) to mess around testing much, I did however want to double check the default disk space settings. Was easy enough to uninstall v2.1, install v2.0 to check, uninstall, install v2.1 and check, and then just drop in my full backup of the v2.1 Frey directories (without losing anything along the way).

Here's what the defaults are for each version:

v2.0.20 => Diskspace 20Gig - Use All

v2.1.10 => Diskspace 2Gig - Leave Free

I suspect that with v2.0 that if you don't get the 2nd folder set up and alter the space usage before moving the files into it, then it very likely would try to use all of only 20Gig (thereby deleting a lot of files).

Not sure if this is true or not since I couldn't do further testing. Anyway, there is a big difference in the default settings between the two versions.

[bschulze]

I am still not sure if this applies to me, since I had over 40 GB free.

Also, just upgraded to 2.1 and am having a lot of issues getting my network drive to work. I run other services that see my file server disk, Sage should too, but doesn't waaahhhhh!!! One of the most frustrating problems is that it won't even allow me to define a network driver (UNC) for a video directory only for the library import directory?? What gives, I used to record directly to a networked drive all the time no issues, this sure frees up my local drive for video editing and stuff.

I love the thought of a service, but not if it isn't working the way I would expect it. Anyway, I will probably return to 2.0 tomorrow. Kinda getting late here.

Again, thanks for your input.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by mls

Here's what the defaults are for each version:

v2.0.20 => Diskspace 20Gig - Use All

v2.1.10 => Diskspace 2Gig - Leave Free

Strange... when I create a new video dir in 2.1.10, it shows Diskspace: 20GB; Use All. This is with a fresh properties file. Oh. You must have other dirs in v2.1 set to "Leave Free: 2 GB" -- I just discovered that it grabs the default settings from the last video dir highlighted. If nothing was highlighted, the default is 20GB; Use All.

I suspect that with v2.0 that if you don't get the 2nd folder set up and alter the space usage before moving the files into it, then it very likely would try to use all of only 20Gig (thereby deleting a lot of files).

The "Use All" setting ignores the "Diskspace" setting, so it uses all available disk space.

-Andy

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by bschulze

Also, just upgraded to 2.1 and am having a lot of issues getting my network drive to work. I run other services that see my file server disk, Sage should too, but doesn't waaahhhhh!!! One of the most frustrating problems is that it won't even allow me to define a network driver (UNC) for a video directory only for the library import directory??

Have you clicked on the "About" button in the SageTV Servive Control app and/or checked the manual on p. 14+ for info on using the service? 1) You can't use mapped drive letters. 2) You have to have the service log on as a user with a password to use UNC paths. 3) You have to make sure those network locations have sharing permissions enabled, especially write permission. Does any of that cover it?

- Andy

[mls]

The defaults I listed above are for the default folder SageTV sets up itself initially with a clean install of each version. I didn't bother setting up any other folders to verify if those would also end up using those settings and/or if they might use some previous setting from another folder like you noticed.

I believe somewhere else someone did mention a bug with either Use All or Leave Free (don't remember which). I've never used those and have always set mine up with a specific size and Use Only. I do this so I always have a good chunk of extra space to put other videos and music files (that are not counted as part of the space SageTV is using for its own recordings).

Anyway, there's something weird going on that is causing problems for some people and I don't have any real answer as to why it's not always working the same way for different people, but I do feel it has to have something to do with what settings they use when adding in another folder to move files into. Otherwise, there should be no reason for it to be deleting files or having them show up as Imported instead.

Just gonna keep my fingers crossed that it doesn't happen to me if I ever do have to move any of my files around at some point in the future.

[bschulze]

Opus, thanks for your help.

I should have worded myself better other than having a little (UNC) in my message. Yes, I have done all of the above and reviewed the documentation in detail. It still appears that you can only have a local drive as the recording destination for TV programs. When I try to change this, it tells me that the directory does not exist and asks if I would like to create it. If I say "YES" then it creates a "\\fileserver\share\dir| path on my C:\ drive.

I would much rather choose a network drive, i.e. "\\amd1400\media\TV Files" Now I realize that I have a space between TV and Files, but I tried folders without spaces as well. Now I thought I had this working when I tried the upgrade via a beta version I believe R4 or R5 (but only had it working for a Library path not the recording destination path, but it certainly is not working now. I have clicked to rescan the media folders so many times, tried shutting things down, restarting, same with the service...nothing!!

I do have other services defined on my primary box as well that have UNC paths to my file server, all those work fine. Since I am using the same user and everything, I know it's not a network issue and or permission issue since my other services do work (using the same user name / account and UNC path.)

I suppose I could run 2.1 without the service, but then why upgrade, I believe the service component to be the strongest reason to make the upgrade, for me anyway.

PS. I have never changed any of the settings from their defaults, only DIR paths, etc.

Thanks again for everyones updates.

[bschulze]

Today I restored my 2.0 version from 2.1. Everything went as expected. In the process of using 2.1 I backed up my net files by renaming the directory. After I restored 2.0 I forgot to rename it back. When I did rename it back the files wouldn't show up, of course, I though and shut down sage. When I restarted sage it removed half of my files. I thought it might do this, so I changed the files to read-only. Seems like it was able to remove them after all. The files are just simply gone. The files it decided not to remove showed up in the Import library. I am now completely paranoid about it removing my files !! Any additional comments on my issue are greaty apreciated. PS. this time I only had one dir defined for this drive.

[nielm]

Originally Posted by bschulze

It still appears that you can only have a local drive as the recording destination for TV programs. When I try to change this, it tells me that the directory does not exist and asks if I would like to create it. If I say "YES" then it creates a "\\fileserver\share\dir| path on my C:\ drive.

Just to let you know that adding a (recording) video path on a remote UNC share when using the service works for me, so it is probably something wrong with your system setup -- Are you sure you are running the sageTV service as a real user (not LocalSystem), and that you restarted the service *after* setting the user account?

[bschulze]

Yes, the servide was running, I checket it out under services and examined the properties. There I was able to doublecheck that I had a real user, the same user that I log into my box with. I then tried connecting to the drive from a command prompt using the UNC format and that worked.
Like I said, I have some other services running that are setup the exact same way. One is a backup program, Powequests Drive image, it backs up my entire C drive to my file server.

The way I have it set up is I have a Win2000 file server (win2000 pro) with a local user that has the same password and login as my user on my primary box (WinXP Pro.) I do not use domains so all of the users are local usernames on their respective machines. Perhaps I am missing something.

What I did is I shared, on my file server, the D: drive as "backup1". Under the D: drive I created a directory called "movies". I then when into sage and under detailed setup/General/Library Import Directories clicked on modify and added a new directory as "\\amd1400\Backup1\movies". I then pushed "rescan media Library" with no luck at all.

Nielm... You mentioned that you are recording to a UNC path. Whenever I try to enter a UNC path in the "detailed setup/General/Video Directories/modify" I get a "Path does not exist, would you like to create it?" dialog box. However, I just tried it in 2.0 and a UNC path worked there - it even shows double the recordable disk space now - good sign. I wonder if I create it in 2.0 and then upgrade if that will work? I will try it in a few minutes.

Thanks for your help. I appreciate someone important as you helping me out.

[bschulze]

I completely wiped my 2.0 install and reinstalled brand new. I then used UNC file patchs and made sure everything worked. Once I had everything working, I upgraded to 2.1. There everything stopped working, couldn't watch TV, nothing. This was due to the UNC file paths. My guess it is a permission problem. This time, however, Sage did not show any disk space availability when scheding the system information. I was able to run 2.0 and record to a UNC path onto my file server, not sure why it isn't working now.

[kny3twalker]

the wiz bin should not be so locked down
we should have access to what it contains and have an easy way to import that information and change that information when having troubles with SAgeTV
bschulze, I have 200GB of imported videos now
after having none before
they were mostly acheived shows

[nielm]

bschulze: Sorry I am not much help -- all I can say is it works for me, both for imports, and for video dirs.

Try checking the sage tv service parameters in Control panel->Admin tools->Services (specifically the logon tab) to check that the SageTV Service Control app has set things up correctly

try running 2.1 but not as a service and see if UNC paths work...

(Important?! )