need Guru help with wireless G network

[ukmgranger]

I'm trying to get the best performance out of my .11g wireless network. Bearing in mind that I am a complete novice with networks I will provide as much info as possible.



My 2 PC's seem to be running at 24.0mbps, not 54mbps which should be possible.



The distance between the three wireless devices is about 11 feet from one WG121 to the router and about 14 feet from the router to the other WG121. These are not large distances!



I am trying to use Sage Client on the second computer and just cant get live TV to stream at max quality. It will stream at 3gig quality but can be quite glitchy.



My setup comprises:

2x Netgear WG121 (http://www.netgear.com/products/details/WG121.php)

1x Netgear ADSL Router DG834G (http://www.netgear.com/products/details/DG834G.php)

Here is My flats layout:





PC1 is set on ip 192.168.0.2

PC2 is set on ip 192.168.0.3

The router is on ip 192.168.0.1



If (from dos promt) I type 'ping 192.168.0.1 -t' (the router) from either PC1 or PC2 I get 0% lost packages which is good.



If I try to ping one computer from the other I get 100% lost packages, which is bad right?



It seems to me that the two computers each have a good connection with the router but a bad connection with each other.


does the data from one computer go through the router to the other computer (which is I think what I want as there is not as far for the signal to go) or does the data go directly from one computer to the other?

Any help would be great.

PS I don't have the option to use a wired LAN so don't even go down that path!

[shhas]

I am no Guru in wireless networking but there are some issues you need to consider. First, wirless as of right now just does not cut it when compared to wired. I have been tweaking and tweaking my sytems which are spread around more than 40 feet with some limited success. I changed the whole setup to take advantage of newer protocols that support up to 108 mbps (that could mean spending more money for you to upgrade your router and PCI cards). Of course, you only get 108 mbps within just a few feet apart. I get anywhere from upper 30s to mid 70's for my systems. (server in basement and clients on different floors and all my wirelss hardware is D-Link).

Streaming out of Sage from the server even when I show I have 50+ mbps reception is choppy. I don't use Sage for live TV and strictly use it for recording shows. The only two softwares that have been able to produce a descent quality picture are RealPlayer and Meedio's internal video player for "already recorded" shows. In fact, in RealPlayer you can set a buffering time of your choosing to counter wireless glitches. (PowerDVD, WinDVD, Window's Media player, Zoom player, Sage internal player..... all were choppy). I am not sure this is what you are looking for but it's working for me.

As for you setup, the fact that you cannot ping the clients means that there is something fundementally wrong here. Could be as simple as a firewall issue vs. or network configuration based on how you set it up.

[Scriber]

Wow a nice little diagram even...

Definetly not a Guru but I have used netgear SuperG to stream 3.5G (max quality or do you mean even higher?) w/o issue for the most part. Once in awhile I get a single hiccup at the start of playback. I can do this fine up one floor (server's in the basement) but not so well to the second floor since the connection degrades.

So the Sage server streams fine wirelessly but Sage Client does not? Same HW?

Several easy things:
Update drivers and firmware.

Anybody else using .11b nearby?

Distance is relevant but obstacles are more important. To test, move the router/wireless client next to each other for testing. Also, trying using just once wireless box. Another thing to try TEMPORARILY is a wired connection and see if the issues go away.



HTH

[ukmgranger]

Originally Posted by Scriber

Wow a nice little diagram even...HTH

The flat is currently on the market, so I nicked the floorplan off my estate agents website

Are there any ways to boost the signal? (this does somhow seem ridiculous that I would need to do so as the distances are so short)

[AirJunky]

You can boost your signal a number of ways with limited success. Linksys has a booster: http://www.linksys.com/products/prod...id=38&prid=548

In my old condo, I was having a problem getting a laptop to connect consistantly. I made an omnidirectional reflector out of a pair of pop cans that increased the signal strength from like 20% to over 90%.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0%2C17...61518%2C00.asp It sounds really corny but I swear it works.....

Keep in mind that it's not just the distance, but also the amount of interference present that can cause connectivity problems. Interference can be the thickness or materials in your walls (metal studs can be a nightmare), cordless phones & other wireless devices. Even the devices at all of your neighbors will effect it. It's a good idea to run wired if at all possible. In your case, I'd be running the wires under the trim (you can even buy stick-on, wirekeeping trim at Home Depot), behind furniture, thru the door jams, etc. to get them wired. I've even done it in a rental house without damaging or drilling anything.

[btvbuddy]

Some wireless-g solutions have a feature (I'm not fond of) called compatability. Review your hardware to make sure that setting is not active - it allows for broad compatability of wireless-g to the other standards creating a mixed mode wireless enviornment. In my setup, I needed to configure the wireless router to force all clients to the 54G and drop all others (a + b) GOOD LUCK!

[Scriber]

Originally Posted by ukmgranger

The flat is currently on the market, so I nicked the floorplan off my estate agents website

Are there any ways to boost the signal? (this does somhow seem ridiculous that I would need to do so as the distances are so short)

I'd make 100% sure its the wireless connection first and not some other setting or issue. I had a similar issue with an older laptop and thought it was the connection itself but when moving the router trying wired for testing I had the same issue... Tried with another laptop and bingo.

Also, do you have any wireless security on? Turn all off and see if that helps.

Originally Posted by btvbuddy

Some wireless-g solutions have a feature (I'm not fond of) called compatability. Review your hardware to make sure that setting is not active - it allows for broad compatability of wireless-g to the other standards creating a mixed mode wireless enviornment. In my setup, I needed to configure the wireless router to force all clients to the 54G and drop all others (a + b) GOOD LUCK!

Good point espcially on SuperG. Firmware upgrades to Netgear's router solved this issue for me. If your neighbor happens to run 11b though this can be a problem since it slows 11g.

[bhageman]

I have a slightly larger apartment and I am able to stream over my wireless g network without any problems at all. The server is in one corner or the apartment, the router is in the middle, and the client is in the far, opposite corner, so there is quite a bit of distance plus several internal walls. There are other b and g networks in adjacent apartments.

I am using all Belkin hardware which allows me to get their proprietary thruput rate, not the g standard and (as noted earlier), I have it config'ed to not recognize any other hardware. I can almost always get well over 50+ mbps from the server and client and even if it drops below, at worst, I get a rare pause for a second or two. The only security I have is the router firewall and MAC addressing. I just assumed that there is no way WEP would work with streaming video.

I am encoding at "good" quality which gives me excellent picture quality on my 36" television and looks great on the laptop client with a 15" LCD. I have tried encoding at higher levels and was still able to stream without stutter, but didn't notice a significant PQ improvement.

Good luck with tweaking your network. Wish I could help you out. SageClient is by far the coolest component of Sage. I was a huge Sage fan before I setup SC, now I can't live without it. My friends are absolutely amazed when I show them the client and then stream a show via wireless.

[edmc]

ukmgranger> If I try to ping one computer from the other I get 100% lost packages, which is bad right?

I was perplexed by this myself. It turns out that all these WiFi Routers have a problem with ICMP traffic (e.g. PING). I'll just bet you can ping in one direction but not the other. Indeed, even if you connect up both computers with wires rather than WiFi, I'd even wager you'd see exactly the same thing.

Somebody from Atheros or whoever builds the chip in your Router could probably explain the issue, but it's a problem pervasive in the industry - probably because there really aren't that many "unique" suppliers out there.

To prove my point, just think about what's going on with Ping. If machine A can Ping machine B but not the other way around - just HOW is machine A getting the Ping response back from B? And I'll just bet you can MS-Share in either direction. Sharing uses TCP for which your Router - whether using 10/100 or WiFi - supports in any direction. It's just ICMP traffic that has the problem.

In short, don't use Ping to confirm a connection. Since you have SageTV and SageTVClient, I'd just use those :-)

[btvbuddy]

Just wanted to add that you can also configure many routers and firewalls to ignore certain types of traffic such as whois, finger, ping etc.. When those options are set those services will appear as failing but really being ignored. This was done to stop DOS attacks and such...

[bizarro]

http://www.qsl.net/n9zia/wireless/index.html

Here is a start to understanding how to enhance wireless performance.

[rwc]

Has anybody tried those 'high gain antennas'? I've seen them advertised, but I don't know if they really work or not.

[mightyt]

Originally Posted by rwc

Has anybody tried those 'high gain antennas'? I've seen them advertised, but I don't know if they really work or not.

I have (Linksys) ... they make a little difference ... Nothing outstanding ...

Also ...

Another thing to consider is interference ... Microwave, Wireless Phones and other electronic devices that may diminish speed. Also, walls do have an impact.

Another thing to remember is that a single AP may be handling multiple devices. So, if multiple wireless devices are streaming, then your perceived performance may be impacted.

T.

[Cayars]

The right antennas can make or break your system. I can walk around my whole block (I live on a corner) which is over a 1/3 mile away in the woods and keep a connection better then 24MB. In my house or yard I never see anything less then 108MB.

With that said you need to understand the kinds of connections you can setup and at what cost you want to spend to do this. For example, I've got an 18db gain omni on the roof of my house (40 feet) fed by a 3 watt linear amp. The Access Point is in my attic and feeds the linear (mounted at the base of the antenna). The wire from the linear to the antenna is about 6 inches if that. The wire from the access point to the linear is about 6 feet.

So yes, keeping cable length short and using high quality antennas do make a world of difference. Also as pointed out earlier, make sure you go over all the settings in your access point to make sure they are set for "speed".

Oh, btw, I have two neighbors with ShowCenters, access points and cheap directional antennas that "watch" my movie libraries. My libraries are all converted to DivX which is much more bandwidth friendly and the ShowCenter rocks for diplaying DivX. I probably shouldn't have shared this last point, but what the heck..., just want to show what a good wireless setup can do.

[x[corwyn]]

Ok here is what you need to do. Get a laptop with a wireless G card and install netstumbler http://www.netstumbler.com/ and do a walkthru in your house. First thing that you need to look for is any wireless-B networks in your area that are on the same channel as you. That WILL cause your wireless G performance to go in half if there is a wireless B card or network that is running with yours. Also if you have any B devices that will cause your G performance to go in half. So my advice is scan and also look at where in the rooms the performance is best, Netstumbler is an awesome tool to best guage your wirelss performance and will show you how much strength you are receiving and whether there is any interference. I bet there is some good interference around there and that is why. Good luck.

[DIBU]

i have the same problem, but i can sole this problem, when i use the software for the wireless cards in my clients/servers an NOT the windows programm. i give the wlan programms the "54g only" flag (not the auto flag). wow it's worked great and performant.

cu
dibu

[sleight42]

In particular, look out for anything in the 2.4GHz range: microwave ovens (mentioned above) or 2.4GHz cordless phones (mentioned above but not by frequency) for example.

Incidentally, your own computer (!!!) can apparently generate interference. I have Linksys cards with the traditional 3-4" angleable antenna. The difference of 30 degrees (from flat) versus 60 degrees was a huge signal boost for me -- implying that my own PC was somehow interfering with reception.

Not only that, but the fewe obstacles, the better, apparently. This is where I go into "voodoo" science for lack of real knowledge. Moving my PC within a foot of the doorway seemed to imrpove signal strength. Then again, getting closer to the doorway removed some of the physical barriers between my PC and the base station.

Repeaters were mentioned. I'm on an Airport network (as I was briefly a Mac convert). Now that Apple has released Windows software for manipulating Mac hardware (iTunes for PC, Airport Extreme and Express base station software, etc.), I bought an Airport Express as a range extender. Let me tell you, this thing is a bitch and a half to set up as a range extender. The documentation is poor and inadequate to the task; I had to rummage through several Apple forums to find enough answers to configure the blasted thing. Unless you have the patience of a saint, or are just plain masochistic, you may want to forego getting a wireless repeater/range extender.

[ukmgranger]

Originally Posted by DIBU

i have the same problem, but i can sole this problem, when i use the software for the wireless cards in my clients/servers an NOT the windows programm. i give the wlan programms the "54g only" flag (not the auto flag). wow it's worked great and performant.

cu
dibu

Thanx for the tip about only allowing 54mb/s in the network adapters settings. At least the mb/s rate isn't dropping down to 24mb/s anymore.

I still can't stream at max mpg quality though. Still, I think it is a little better now.