SageTV and Streaming Services

[NetworkGuy]

Whenever I miss recording a show, I use Xfinity OnDemand and PlayOn to record the show. I then import the recording into SageTV. I have found that I can also use PlayOn to record an Amazon Prime video steam and import that into SageTV. It works fine except that audio is always stereo, not 5.1. My conversations with PlayOn support confirmed that all the streaming services only send stereo when you are viewing through a web browser. It is only when you use the app for the streaming service that you get 5.1 audio.

It got me to thinking. We have SageTV users who use a HDPVR to record a signal from a cable box and control that box through SageTV. Well instead of a cable box, suppose the HDPVR was hooked up to a Shield TV running one of the streaming service apps. We should be able to record video with 5.1 audio. We would just need a way to control a Shield TV.

Since I have never used a HDPVR / cable box with SageTV, I have no idea how it works. How does SageTV control the cable box? Could the same setup be used to control a ShieldTV running a streaming app? Does this seem possible?

What do people think?

[pjpjpjpj]

Check your pm.

[jpwegas]

Originally Posted by NetworkGuy

It got me to thinking. We have SageTV users who use a HDPVR to record a signal from a cable box and control that box through SageTV. Well instead of a cable box, suppose the HDPVR was hooked up to a Shield TV running one of the streaming service apps. We should be able to record video with 5.1 audio. We would just need a way to control a Shield TV.

Since I have never used a HDPVR / cable box with SageTV, I have no idea how it works. How does SageTV control the cable box? Could the same setup be used to control a ShieldTV running a streaming app? Does this seem possible?

What do people think?

Some people have done this, although not with a Shield that I know of. Here's a post from Will about what he did with a Roku, basically treating it as an external tuner: https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/sho...8&postcount=10

--John

[NetworkGuy]

I found a detailed description of how to remotely control a Roku, but that is based on the Roku external control API.

https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/sho...1&postcount=19

[Tiki]

So, it sounds like the people that have gotten the Roku to work with Sage are using it with Philo. Philo is somewhat unique among streaming services in that it is still linear / time-based like traditional OTA or cable TV. That means you can have a traditional program guide with channel numbers and times. So it is relatively easy to integrate with Sage (once you figure out how to automate the Roku).

I’m wondering how someone might go about handling an on-demand service like Netflix or Amazon Prime? A program guide doesn’t make a lot of sense, and I don’t see an easy way to handle things like Favorites.

[NetworkGuy]

Originally Posted by Tiki

So, it sounds like the people that have gotten the Roku to work with Sage are using it with Philo. Philo is somewhat unique among streaming services in that it is still linear / time-based like traditional OTA or cable TV. That means you can have a traditional program guide with channel numbers and times. So it is relatively easy to integrate with Sage (once you figure out how to automate the Roku).

I’m wondering how someone might go about handling an on-demand service like Netflix or Amazon Prime? A program guide doesn’t make a lot of sense, and I don’t see an easy way to handle things like Favorites.

Good point. Sage is based on recording from a channel guide, something that most streaming services do not have.

[KryptoNyte]

I could see Sage being useful for Netflix and Amazon Prime if it could just interface with a user's watchlist on either service. You can add shows to your watchlist, and just those items would appear in a Sage menu. Otherwise, I'd just be using their apps with another device.

There are actually quite a few streaming services out there that use a program guide like Youtube TV, DirectTV Now, PSVue, Sling, Philo, FuboTV, AT&T Now. SageTV has never really attempted to leverage these services directly, and I imagine it would take a lot of developer time and effort to not only create the 'tuner,' but to then be committed to updating it every time some little thing breaks. That's a lot to ask.

Channels DVR is leveraging this to some degree via TVEverywhere, but TVEverywhere doesn't deliver local affiliate channels unfortunately, so you're right back to an antenna for those - and if you're not within range, too bad for you.

[KryptoNyte]

One of the biggest hurdles it seems with streaming/guide type services is that they have abandoned 5.1 channel audio. It's frustrating that in this day and age that we are taking steps backward with our media delivery systems.

[NetworkGuy]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

One of the biggest hurdles it seems with streaming/guide type services is that they have abandoned 5.1 channel audio. It's frustrating that in this day and age that we are taking steps backward with our media delivery systems.

Channels DVR uses the PlayOn brower method to record, so we are back to stereo even with them.

[KryptoNyte]

Originally Posted by NetworkGuy

Channels DVR uses the PlayOn brower method to record, so we are back to stereo even with them.

Similar, yeah. When Playon was capturing streams from Netflix that were natively 5.1 channel, it was only able to capture the stereo audio. TVE Streams captured by Channels DVR are native stereo only. So yeah, the end result always seems to be stereo unfortunately.

Yet if you watch them with good old OTA methods, 5.1 channel is immediately available. How backwards is that.

[pjpjpjpj]

There is a thread in the "hardware support" subforum here from years ago (started by that same guy, will) when Chromecast was new and really was the only streaming device out there, where basically the idea was to plug it into a dedicated HDPVR or Colossus and create a fake channel in the Sage EPG for that tuner, and anything you streamed to the Chromecast would play (and thus record) in Sage. You could set manual recording times on that as long as you had the Chromecast streaming whatever you wanted to watch continuously. So, for instance if you were going out but wanted to record a game, you could set it streaming that sports channel (it would be streaming into nothingness) and then set a manual recording in Sage for the time that the game was on. Later you would just need to remember to stop the streaming. At the time, the whole point was to get 1080p because streams at 1080 were fairly new and PlayOn through Sage didn't allow them.

If you did that method but used a Roku and were able to leverage the TVEverywhere listings, perhaps you could create multiple channels in the Sage EPG which would show those listings, and if setting something to record could call the Roku to play that stream as indicated might be possible above, then perhaps it might be possible add streaming channels to the Sage EPG? Only downside would be that you'd only have a single tuner for those channels so you could only record one of those multiple streaming channels at once.

[NetworkGuy]

It sounds like a lot of people have used a dedicated HDPVR or Colossus to record from a streaming device by just leaving the app streaming what you want to record.

But other than the Roku API, I have not seen anyway to launch a streaming app, make a selection and then start playing. All of that is still manual.

Is there anything that will automate actions (launch, select, play) on an Android TV, Fire TV or Apple TV? And if that process could be launched from SageTV, it might be possible to automate the process.

[Ghildebr]

I follow these forums almost daily. There was a lot of activity around here, especially when wnjj and others were working on the x64 Windows version. Now days things are relativity quiet. For the most part my Windows x64 Sage system works exactly as expected. But now that I have cut the cord, almost a year ago actually, I find myself using Sage less and less. I don't believe that I will ever get rid of it, but the one piece that it is missing is someway of getting a streaming service to easily integrate into it. Just like it was a tuner with some form of guide data. You want to set up a favorite and record something, you just find it in the guide and do it.

I consider myself a very tech savvy person. I have been working in the IT industry for over 30 + years, but sadly none of that has been as a developer. I can easily follow directions, even the very technical ones, but unfortunately I can't write code. I too wish that there was some easy way of integrating a external "hardware streaming tuner" to a HDPVR or Colossus card via HDMI then right into Sage just like my DirecTV receiver once did. Then Comskip could do its thing and just like that Sage would have it. It would be Beautiful...

Gary

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by Ghildebr

I follow these forums almost daily. There was a lot of activity around here, especially when wnjj and others were working on the x64 Windows version. Now days things are relativity quiet. For the most part my Windows x64 Sage system works exactly as expected. But now that I have cut the cord, almost a year ago actually, I find myself using Sage less and less. I don't believe that I will ever get rid of it, but the one piece that it is missing is someway of getting a streaming service to easily integrate into it. Just like it was a tuner with some form of guide data. You want to set up a favorite and record something, you just find it in the guide and do it.

I consider myself a very tech savvy person. I have been working in the IT industry for over 30 + years, but sadly none of that has been as a developer. I can easily follow directions, even the very technical ones, but unfortunately I can't write code. I too wish that there was some easy way of integrating a external "hardware streaming tuner" to a HDPVR or Colossus card via HDMI then right into Sage just like my DirecTV receiver once did. Then Comskip could do its thing and just like that Sage would have it. It would be Beautiful...

Gary

Sadly, Sage is dying a slow death. This is extremely painful for me because I have spent MANY hours writing plugins and "fiddling around". I am also seriously considering cutting the cord and find myself watching less and less from cable. Most of what I do watch is sports (Football, Formula1, IndyCar) and almost everything else is YouTube, Netflix, Amazon, and MotoGP.

If there were one service I could buy and watch it all I would, but that does not exist and integrating streaming services on any one device is near impossible BY DESIGN. The streaming service companies do not want their service to be integrated into anything, they want the other guys service integrated into theirs.

Sooner or later the fragmentation will stop and there will be 5 or 6 services that carry it all. Then something new will come along and blow up that business model

[RonBoyd]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

Sadly, Sage is dying a slow death.

And that saddens me also. I have used SageTV solely for OTA use since the beginning -- I have never had Pay TV. Yes, there are some currently trying to duplicate what SageTV offers for OTA use. I have tried them all and use them as "backup" -- Tablo, HDHomeRun, Plex, Emby, etc. However, I always come back to SageTV. This is surprising since, for all practical purposes, SageTV hasn't really changed that much in the last 10 years. It is hard to believe that it was (and is) so far ahead of its time.

I will be very sorry to see it die. But that is what I said when Google took over. Maybe like the Phoenix...

[wayner]

The difference this time is that linear TV is dying as well so there is less need for something to record that TV.

I primarily use SageTV for sports but I am not sure that I would get full functionality without cable. Here in Canada there are two main sports cable channels - TSN and Rogers Sportsnet. You can subscribe to each of them in a streaming only format for $25/month. But then you are up to $50/month and it isn't clear what capabilities you have for timeshifting. And I would also be missing the Golf Channel.

The other option is to subscribe to the sports leagues' direct services but then you often have to deal with blackout issues and you may not have timeshifting capabilities as good as SageTV.

[Ghildebr]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

If there were one service I could buy and watch it all I would, but that does not exist and integrating streaming services on any one device is near impossible BY DESIGN. The streaming service companies do not want their service to be integrated into anything, they want the other guys service integrated into theirs.

Somewhere here I read that someone had hooked up a Roku to his Colossus via a HDMI cable (possibly with a splitter to remove the unwanted parts). From there they passed certain code to the Roku to allow for starting\stopping and selecting what stream to watch. Then somehow they tied that back in to Sage through the Colossus card and recorded it just like you would do with a Cable or DirecTV box. It sounded like it was a lot of back end code to keep things working on a daily basis, something that the average end user does not have the ability to do. What if a plugin could be created to do this part for you? Even if you only get 2 channel stereo. That's better than nothing in my opinion. I have looked for the last 20 minutes to see if I could find that thread but unfortunately I can't. Could not a prerequisites for this plugin be that you have to have an certain model of Roku box running a certain revision of code. Possibly even sign up for a certain streaming service for things to work correctly. I am sure that I am speaking way above what my knowledge base is about this subject but I am just trying to think outside the box.

[wayner]

My question on that is why? Were they worried about content going away? Did they want to make it available in other rooms where they only had SageTV extenders? Did they want to be able to capture real time shows like sports?

If you want to watch a show on Netflix then why not fire up the Netflix app on your Roku or whatever? You can buy Rokus pretty cheap these days, especially used ones. And almost every TV these days is a smart TV. Or you can buy a Chromecast cheaply and stream from your phone.

[Ghildebr]

I guess when you have a great product that has as much flexibility that Sage has you want to utilize it. I also prefer to have control over my own content. Plus SageTV is the only interface that the wife has used for over 10 years. WAF is very high for SageTV.

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by wayner

If you want to watch a show on Netflix then why not fire up the Netflix app on your Roku or whatever? You can buy Rokus pretty cheap these days, especially used ones. And almost every TV these days is a smart TV. Or you can buy a Chromecast cheaply and stream from your phone.

To me that's not really the big issue. The big issue is cost. You have to pay for Netflix, Disney+, Amazon Prime, CBS All Access, MotoGP, etc. When you start adding all that up you get close to what "old fashioned" cable costs.

Cable cutters are cutting the cable because they feel "trapped" by the cable companies.

On the other hand, streaming content has gotten a lot better due to the competition. Netflix, Amazon, Disney, and CBS (All Access) have some teriffic shows. Probably much better than what we would have gotten if only network TV were available.

Bottom line for me: Streaming does not save any money but it does improve the quality of the content.

Another peeve. If (when) your credit card is compromised you need to go into all of those accounts and update the billing info.