Linux pre-build questions

[wayner]

I am thinking about building a Linux server, at least on old hardware as a test platform to try it out. A few questions - my starting point is that I have dabbled in *nix for about 20 years from Sun Solaris to Ubuntu to RPis, but I am most familiar with Ubuntu and Raspbian Jessie/Wheezy, however I am by no means an expert.

What flavour of Linux should I use?
If Ubuntu what version? 14.04 LTS? 16.04 LTS?
Any reason not to use 64 bit?
I see a thread about USB-UIRT using LIRC so I guess I can use this for channel changing?
Is firewire channel changing an option?
What is the status of HD-PVRs under Linux?
Does the Jetty webserver run properly on Linux?
Is there anything that wouldn't work on Linux that I am used to on my Windows 7 installs?

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by wayner

I am thinking about building a Linux server, at least on old hardware as a test platform to try it out. A few questions - my starting point is that I have dabbled in *nix for about 20 years from Sun Solaris to Ubuntu to RPis, but I am most familiar with Ubuntu and Raspbian Jessie/Wheezy, however I am by no means an expert.

What flavour of Linux should I use?
If Ubuntu what version? 14.04 LTS? 16.04 LTS?
Any reason not to use 64 bit?
I see a thread about USB-UIRT using LIRC so I guess I can use this for channel changing?
Is firewire channel changing an option?
What is the status of HD-PVRs under Linux?
Does the Jetty webserver run properly on Linux?
Is there anything that wouldn't work on Linux that I am used to on my Windows 7 installs?

By far the easiest setup for SageTV in Linux is to use unRAID + Docker (there's a thread).... plus you get a first class NAS and the ability to quickly and easily deploy/re-deploy things like Plex, Emby, etc. unRAID/Docker has support to easily allow changing amount of MEM, it has comskip installed, it installs gentuner (used for turning using command scripts), it supports LIRC (I think some are using usb-uirt)

I've used LInux for sagetv from day 1. I have 2 HDPVRs and I use CommandIR for tuning (no longer supported). For the HDPVRs you'll need to research the models you have... Mine work out of the box... the newer ones do not work (from what I an tell).

Most things, unless they are dependent on native libraries will just work. So Jetty, BMT, Phoenix, etc... will all work the same.

Since I don't know what you have in your Win7 installs, I can't say what won't work Likely if you have PCI tuner cards that require specific drivers in windows, they may not work (some will, but, you'd have to research the hardware).

For Linux, I only produce 64bit installs of SageTV... I recommend that you use 64 bit install of linux as well (unRAID is 64bit).

If you decide to do your own install... I'd use latest ubuntu. There are packages for sagetv, which is the easy part... the hard part is really configuring all the other stuff, like lirc, comskip, etc.

[wayner]

Thanks for the info. My HD-PVRs are the V1 using component input - I think they are model 1212s which are likely the same as you. My other tuners are a Hauppauge 1850 PCI card that does OTA + analog input (it doesn't matter if I can't use this one) and a network connected HDHR for OTA.

I read their web page but I still not totally understand what unRAID is. Do I have it right that it is a Linux OS that is optimized for file storage and (with Docker) allows you to store applications, like SageTV, in virtual environments so that they don't conflict with each other? Is that right?

What are the pros/cons of unRAID vs Ubuntu?

Would I then buy unRAID basic?

Outside of SageTV can I use unRAID like any other Linux OS and run other applications? And maybe install Apache2 and use it as a web server?

Can unRAID replace my WHS box by doing nightly backups that would facilitate bare metal restores?

[stuckless]

unRAID is fundamentally NAS software, that happens to run on Linux (as many NAS solutions do).

unRAID added Docker and VM support so that if you have beefy hardware, you an also use it to run Docker containers and Linux/Windows VMs if needed.

The primary advantages of unRAID over Ubuntu, in my mind is this...
- unRAID updates happen periodically, and they are easy to apply (just use the web ui and update it). With Ubuntu... unless you are on a LTS release, you are always updating... and I had many cases where I failed to update the release in a timely manner and then I was left no way to actually do the update, except to re-install (or use an update cd, etc). So, I think keeping it updated is a win for unRAID.
- unRAID has a "Community Applications" plugins where you can easily search/pick/install Docker containers. Things like Plex, SageTV, Emby, and many other types of softwware can be easily installed and setup using the web ui. unRAID has a concept of "templates", so when you can configure something like plex or sagetv, and you have to re-install for some reason, it takes a matter of minutes, and you are back up and running.

Fundamentally unRAID is linux with a nice Docker web ui manager. The same Docker image for SageTV can be run on normal ubuntu as well, and I use it that way myself, for development... ie, when I need a new sagetv server, I just fire up a new docker instance. I wouldn't consider unRAID to be a distro, but it is linux, and they make it quite easy to maintain the server.

I've known about unRAID for years, but I've chose to run my own linux servers with LVM and RAID, etc, I've spent way more time trying to maintain those than I ever did with unRAID.

And since unRAID is a NAS solution, you can grow shrink your storage quite easily.. you an do things like add a SSD cache drive so that things can run faster from SSD... for example you could put sagetv on a SSD cache drive (I don't).

And as I noted before, the SageTV docker container takes care of keeping it up to date, installing linux comskip, etc. There's also an OpenDCT container (I think)... I haven't used it because I have nothing to use it with

[wayner]

Thanks stuckless!

Can I create my own template to facilitate reinstalls? From the core install you may be able to get up and running in minutes but installing all of the updates and configuring them correctly, with Gemstone custom menus, etc, takes a long time.

Originally Posted by stuckless

There's also an OpenDCT container (I think)... I haven't used it because I have nothing to use it with

Being in Canada I am in the same position, although I think you can use OpenDCT for the OTA HD HomeRun. But I am not sure what that gives you vs the "native" method of using the HDHR.

In reading up on GenTuner it looks like it did work with firewire. Any idea if that still works as in the Windows world drivers for firewire were always an issue and 64 bit firewire drivers for Win do not exist.

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by wayner

Thanks stuckless!

Can I create my own template to facilitate reinstalls? From the core install you may be able to get up and running in minutes but installing all of the updates and configuring them correctly, with Gemstone custom menus, etc, takes a long time.

Being in Canada I am in the same position, although I think you can use OpenDCT for the OTA HD HomeRun. But I am not sure what that gives you vs the "native" method of using the HDHR.

In reading up on GenTuner it looks like it did work with firewire. Any idea if that still works as in the Windows world drivers for firewire were always an issue and 64 bit firewire drivers for Win do not exist.

A Template is just the configuration settings that you used when setting up a docker instance (ie, path mappings, port mappings, and other container specific settings).

A Docker container's configuration is not stored in the container itself, it's store somewhere on an unRAID share. So for sagetv you can completely remove SageTV docker image and then later install it, and it will be fully configured (provided you use the "my-xxx" template, or if you simply configured the new image to use the same appdata location.

I recommend installing unRAID and then playing with docker, shares, etc, before you dive straight into the "final" configuration... ie, play with docker, plugins, cache drives, shares... even install sagetv docker and test it out, etc.

[KarylFStein]

I installed unRAID on an old server and liked it so much I bought a license and built out the server some. I'm not using SageTV on it yet, but I have a VM and some dockers on it. I'd definately recommend trying it out some. I may not end up using it for SageTV, (still hoping for a 64bit Windows build), but it has found a place in my rack.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by KarylFStein

I installed unRAID on an old server and liked it so much I bought a license and built out the server some. I'm not using SageTV on it yet, but I have a VM and some dockers on it. I'd definately recommend trying it out some. I may not end up using it for SageTV, (still hoping for a 64bit Windows build), but it has found a place in my rack.

Any particular reason you're holding out for a 64-bit Windows version? You can have it in 64-bit now in Linux or unRAID. It works quite well. I moved from Windows to unRAID. Took some time to convert the recording disks to unRAID format but haven't had any issues at all since.

[wayner]

I am in the same boat but I am considering jumping to Linux because I don't think anyone is actually working on a 64 bit version for Windows so there is a very good chance that it will never happen.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by wayner

I am in the same boat but I am considering jumping to Linux because I don't think anyone is actually working on a 64 bit version for Windows so there is a very good chance that it will never happen.

To my knowledge it's not currently being worked on but I believe it's on someone's todo list.

[KarylFStein]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

Any particular reason you're holding out for a 64-bit Windows version? You can have it in 64-bit now in Linux or unRAID. It works quite well. I moved from Windows to unRAID. Took some time to convert the recording disks to unRAID format but haven't had any issues at all since.

Mainly because it would be a major overhaul to my network. The Windows server does a lot more than SageTV. Plus I'm not sure how well the PCIe cards would work, (and if I'd lose tools like Ceton Diagnostics, which I need sometimes to diagnose issues). Also I'm a little concerned about performance as the unRAID people say it's not meant to be a high-performance solution, (which doesn't mean it wouldn't work for what I do, but would need testing). Basically it would take a bit of planning and tinkering to move things around and not have too much downtime. I enjoy doing that, but these days I just don't have the time.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by KarylFStein

Mainly because it would be a major overhaul to my network. The Windows server does a lot more than SageTV. Plus I'm not sure how well the PCIe cards would work, (and if I'd lose tools like Ceton Diagnostics, which I need sometimes to diagnose issues). Also I'm a little concerned about performance as the unRAID people say it's not meant to be a high-performance solution, (which doesn't mean it wouldn't work for what I do, but would need testing). Basically it would take a bit of planning and tinkering to move things around and not have too much downtime. I enjoy doing that, but these days I just don't have the time.

I hear ya there. My main reason for moving from Windows was consolidation. I'd put together a dual quad core system intending to virtualize SageTV but was unable to due to the hardware I picked. UnRAID gave the the ideal opportunity to complete the consolidation. I actually ended up picking a different motherboard recently because of performance issues unrelated to unRAID I was having. I'm completely satisfied with what I have now with unRAID.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by stuckless

I recommend installing unRAID and then playing with docker, shares, etc, before you dive straight into the "final" configuration... ie, play with docker, plugins, cache drives, shares... even install sagetv docker and test it out, etc.

Ok, I am doing that.

I have an old Dell that I saved from the scrap pile at work a little while ago. I have installed four old hard drives in it and installed unRAID. It just finished formatting the drives so know I will start setting up Shares and playing around.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by KarylFStein

Mainly because it would be a major overhaul to my network. The Windows server does a lot more than SageTV. Plus I'm not sure how well the PCIe cards would work, (and if I'd lose tools like Ceton Diagnostics, which I need sometimes to diagnose issues). Also I'm a little concerned about performance as the unRAID people say it's not meant to be a high-performance solution, (which doesn't mean it wouldn't work for what I do, but would need testing). Basically it would take a bit of planning and tinkering to move things around and not have too much downtime. I enjoy doing that, but these days I just don't have the time.

What you could do if you want 64 bit on unRAID with a non-supported tuner is setup a VM on unRAID with the tuner passed through to a Windows instance and 32 bit Windows SageTV installed as a network encoder to the 64 bit Linux Docker version of unRAID. Not ideal but if the tuner isn't supported it is one way to get around the problem. I may go that route myself in Feb/Mar for one of my SageTV servers currently on a VM on a unRAID box.

[wayner]

To test out content on may unRAID server how can I access Windows drives from the unRAID server to use as some of my Sage media drives? I know this isn't ideal for long term operations but it will be useful for testing.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by wayner

To test out content on may unRAID server how can I access Windows drives from the unRAID server to use as some of my Sage media drives? I know this isn't ideal for long term operations but it will be useful for testing.

If you install this http://lime-technology.com/forum/ind...?topic=45807.0 plugin you will be able to mount a NTFS formatted drive to copy files from it to the array. With the plugin you should be able to WRITE to the drive in unRAID as well but it would be better if you formatted the drive as XFS if you are going to use it mounted in unRAID as that is the default format for unRAID.

[EnterNoEscape]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

If you install this http://lime-technology.com/forum/ind...?topic=45807.0 plugin you will be able to mount a NTFS formatted drive to copy files from it to the array. With the plugin you should be able to WRITE to the drive in unRAID as well but it would be better if you formatted the drive as XFS if you are going to use it mounted in unRAID as that is the default format for unRAID.

Unless things have improved a lot, do not use NTFS in Linux for your recordings drive. There are problems with live TV playback. https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/sho...6&postcount=33

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by EnterNoEscape

Unless things have improved a lot, do not use NTFS in Linux for your recordings drive. There are problems with live TV playback. https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/sho...6&postcount=33

Didn't know about that. I wouldn't use NTFS as recording drives in unRAID anyway but I won't even suggest it's possibility to someone else now.

[ASegredo]

Agreeing with EnterNoescape about NTFS. Go with ext4.

Regarding hardware, the old Hauppauge HVR-1600 works well on Linux and is available cheap on Ebay. For analog the old (ancient) PVR-150/250 are bulletproof. For PCIe, the HVR-1250 and cetain variants of the 2250 are supposed to work (and others only with Windows). I don't know of recent hardware cards that are supported, but I'd like too!

I've had trouble getting SageTV9 running on non-Ubuntu but can easily watch TV with the HVR-1600 by using azap to tune and mplayer to watch, so Sage shouldn't have any problem.

[Fuzzy]

If we're talking unRAID, there's really no compelling reason NOT to use the array. The only reason to mount the drives using the unassigned devices plugin is to copy data off of them at higher than network speeds.