Planning New WHS2011 Sage Server Build - Please comment

[maninblack_30]

Originally Posted by gminnick

How does it handle recording 2 shows while watching one previously recorded? How about recording 2 shows and watching an mkv with h.264 encoding? I just bought an N54L and testing Server 2012 R2 Essentials preview as a replacement WHS and I was wondering about buying a 2nd for SageTV just because they take up so little space. Of course I will need to be looking for a SageTV replacement at some point and would hope it would also do well with another program like XBMC or MediaPortal.

I have 2 dual-tuner cards (4 tuners), and have never had it skip a beat, often have 2 extenders running too.
The only stress-testing I did was recording 4 HD streams, while watching one of them.

Fraser

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by sic0048

For those of you that have multiple virtual machines - are you sharing NICs or do you add a NIC for each machine? Just curious to hear what others are doing.

Thanks!

I have two vSwitches setup in ESXi. One PC nic for each vSwitch. vSwitch0 connects to the management interface. vSwitch1 connects to all of the VMs on that PC. I have three ESXi servers on two Tyan S5512GM2NR MBs and a SuperMicro X9SCM-F. All MBs have dual nics and are setup with the multiple vSwitches.

[gminnick]

Originally Posted by maninblack_30

I have 2 dual-tuner cards (4 tuners), and have never had it skip a beat, often have 2 extenders running too.
The only stress-testing I did was recording 4 HD streams, while watching one of them.

Fraser

Very nice. I definitely need to look into this. Thanks for the update.

[WellThen]

Thanks for the help so far. My new server is built, and ESXi 5.0 is installed and purring. I have a VM on my SSD with Win7 64 Ultimate, targeted for Sage Server.

My intention is that I would use my two 3TB drives (I'm not using RAID) as my recording drives for Sage. They would be my E: and F: drives. I have tried several times to set these up in ESXI, and each time I keep running into a 2TB limit. I have created the datastores as VMFS-5, and can get the datastore to be 2.73 TB. But then, when I try to add the disks to the VM, it won't let me size the disks higher than 2TB. Am I doing something wrong, or do I need to create the datastores as 2TB or less, and create more disks (E:, F:, G:, H) to cover the available space?

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by WellThen

Thanks for the help so far. My new server is built, and ESXi 5.0 is installed and purring. I have a VM on my SSD with Win7 64 Ultimate, targeted for Sage Server.

My intention is that I would use my two 3TB drives (I'm not using RAID) as my recording drives for Sage. They would be my E: and F: drives. I have tried several times to set these up in ESXI, and each time I keep running into a 2TB limit. I have created the datastores as VMFS-5, and can get the datastore to be 2.73 TB. But then, when I try to add the disks to the VM, it won't let me size the disks higher than 2TB. Am I doing something wrong, or do I need to create the datastores as 2TB or less, and create more disks (E:, F:, G:, H) to cover the available space?

ESXi has a 2TB limit on datastore drives. That may also include drives RDM'd but I don't know for sure. You can pass through a controller card directly to the VM if your MB, Bios & CPU are capable of it. That is how I have all three of my ESXi servers setup. 2 of the servers use an eSata card passed through to the VMs controlling 5 drive external cages using port multiplier technology. The third server has an IBM M1015 controller passed through and directly connected to 5 drives in a 5x3 drive cage.

[WellThen]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

ESXi has a 2TB limit on datastore drives. That may also include drives RDM'd but I don't know for sure. You can pass through a controller card directly to the VM if your MB, Bios & CPU are capable of it. That is how I have all three of my ESXi servers setup. 2 of the servers use an eSata card passed through to the VMs controlling 5 drive external cages using port multiplier technology. The third server has an IBM M1015 controller passed through and directly connected to 5 drives in a 5x3 drive cage.

Thanks for the explanation, I'm not sure I got all of it. Is the bottom line that a low-cost way to make use of the full capacity of my 3TB WD Red drives within ESXi 5.0 is to buy a separate eSata card that these specific drives are then attached to (separate from the disk controller on the motherboard that my SSD is attached to) and then, if I passthrough that separate eSata card to my Win 7 VM, I would be able to access all 3 TB (or 2.73 TB) for each drive?

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by WellThen

Thanks for the explanation, I'm not sure I got all of it. Is the bottom line that a low-cost way to make use of the full capacity of my 3TB WD Red drives within ESXi 5.0 is to buy a separate eSata card that these specific drives are then attached to (separate from the disk controller on the motherboard that my SSD is attached to) and then, if I passthrough that separate eSata card to my Win 7 VM, I would be able to access all 3 TB (or 2.73 TB) for each drive?

Nailed it! Just make sure the card you buy is supported by ESXi.

My setup is exactly like BobPhoenix's 3rd server. I have 2 M1015's and 2 5in3 cages.

[WellThen]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

Nailed it! Just make sure the card you buy is supported by ESXi.

My setup is exactly like BobPhoenix's 3rd server. I have 2 M1015's and 2 5in3 cages.

OK, glad to know I'm getting the gist. Now, 2 more questions:

1) Is eSata really a requirement? Or are you just doing that because your drives happen to be in an external case? This would work with a regular Sata card as well?
2) One of the things I'm used to with Sage and these "recording" drives is their portability. Is there anything about this approach that makes these drives less portable? That is, by using ESXI to passthrough a reference to a particular eSata/Sata controller, am I somehow "marrying" the drives to that controller so that they could not be read if they were put in another machine? I've seen reference to something like this with RAID controllers, and just wonder if the same applies here.

Thanks again for all the help. Planning to stop at Micro Center after work to pick up an eSata or Sata card, and hopefully get Sage running this weekend.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by WellThen

OK, glad to know I'm getting the gist. Now, 2 more questions:

1) Is eSata really a requirement? Or are you just doing that because your drives happen to be in an external case?

No. I have VMs (3 unRAID VMs) each have the internal drive slots in the cases completely filled up. So when I setup my Windows SageTV VMs I used an external card and cage to add recording drives for SageTV. Also this allowed me to separate out the Windows drives for easy accessability.

This would work with a regular Sata card as well?

Correct. My third ESXi box has 2 M1015's in it. One is used for an unRAID VM the other for Windows VM connected to a 5 in 3 drive cage. Specifically this internal cage.

2) One of the things I'm used to with Sage and these "recording" drives is their portability. Is there anything about this approach that makes these drives less portable? That is, by using ESXI to passthrough a reference to a particular eSata/Sata controller, am I somehow "marrying" the drives to that controller so that they could not be read if they were put in another machine? I've seen reference to something like this with RAID controllers, and just wonder if the same applies here.

No. I used the same drives without reformatting from a bare metal Windows install on my passthrough card and windows VM. I did setup the OS from scratch on a virtual drive on my drive store but the recording drives were just moved from the old computer to the new cages and used.

[WellThen]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

No. I have VMs (3 unRAID VMs) each have the internal drive slots in the cases completely filled up. So when I setup my Windows SageTV VMs I used an external card and cage to add recording drives for SageTV. Also this allowed me to separate out the Windows drives for easy accessability.Correct. My third ESXi box has 2 M1015's in it. One is used for an unRAID VM the other for Windows VM connected to a 5 in 3 drive cage. Specifically this internal cage.No. I used the same drives without reformatting from a bare metal Windows install on my passthrough card and windows VM. I did setup the OS from scratch on a virtual drive on my drive store but the recording drives were just moved from the old computer to the new cages and used.

Thanks Bob. OK, I've finally accepted that I need a M1015 to make this work (get my full 3TB on my recording drives). It looks like I also need special cable to connect the M1015 to my drives. So, here is what I plan to order:

M1015
http://www.amazon.com/IBM-Serveraid-...ords=ibm+m1015

Cable
http://www.amazon.com/3WARE-Cable-Mu...d_bxgy_e_img_y

I've read enough warnings about forward vs. backward cables to believe I have the right one selected (the one to connect the M1015 to the SATA drives) but I thought I'd double-check here.

I've also read about needing to "flash" the M1015 to make it work for ESXi. I'm assuming that everything I need to do this should come with a new M1015?

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by WellThen

Thanks Bob. OK, I've finally accepted that I need a M1015 to make this work (get my full 3TB on my recording drives). It looks like I also need special cable to connect the M1015 to my drives. So, here is what I plan to order:

M1015
http://www.amazon.com/IBM-Serveraid-...ords=ibm+m1015

Cable
http://www.amazon.com/3WARE-Cable-Mu...d_bxgy_e_img_y

I've read enough warnings about forward vs. backward cables to believe I have the right one selected (the one to connect the M1015 to the SATA drives) but I thought I'd double-check here.

I've also read about needing to "flash" the M1015 to make it work for ESXi. I'm assuming that everything I need to do this should come with a new M1015?

Note you could use other controllers for your recording drives you don't have to use an M1015. You can use the SuperMicro AOC-SASLP-MV8 as well but you need to make some configuration changes in ESXi to get it to pass through without pink screening ESXi. Also with the SASLP-MV8 I had BSODs in Win7x64 VMs so I stuck with Highpoint and M1015s - but the SASLP-MV8 worked fine with my WHSv1 VM. SiliconImage controllers based on 3132 and 3124 also pass through in ESXi. The M1015s I got were off of ebay and ranged in price from $70 up to $120. None were new - I like the ones you found they are comparable to ServerSupply price I found for bulk cards. The cable looks good I believe. You want Forward breakout cables and while it doesn't say Forward in the description I believe the F in CBL-SFF8087OCF-05M stands for forward. I got my forward breakout cables from newegg and monoprice. This assumes you are connecting the cable directly to the drives of course. It is probably best to flash the M1015 to IT mode there are several places on the internet that have instructions. I got mine from the Atlas thread on the unRAID forums. I know unRAID doesn't work with an M1015 unless it is flashed to IT mode but I've never tried an M1015 in Windows VM. Flashing it to IT mode shouldn't be required just to pass it through to a VM.

[WellThen]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

Note you could use other controllers for your recording drives you don't have to use an M1015. You can use the SuperMicro AOC-SASLP-MV8 as well but you need to make some configuration changes in ESXi to get it to pass through without pink screening ESXi. Also with the SASLP-MV8 I had BSODs in Win7x64 VMs so I stuck with Highpoint and M1015s - but the SASLP-MV8 worked fine with my WHSv1 VM. SiliconImage controllers based on 3132 and 3124 also pass through in ESXi. The M1015s I got were off of ebay and ranged in price from $70 up to $120. None were new - I like the ones you found they are comparable to ServerSupply price I found for bulk cards. The cable looks good I believe. You want Forward breakout cables and while it doesn't say Forward in the description I believe the F in CBL-SFF8087OCF-05M stands for forward. I got my forward breakout cables from newegg and monoprice. This assumes you are connecting the cable directly to the drives of course. It is probably best to flash the M1015 to IT mode there are several places on the internet that have instructions. I got mine from the Atlas thread on the unRAID forums. I know unRAID doesn't work with an M1015 unless it is flashed to IT mode but I've never tried an M1015 in Windows VM. Flashing it to IT mode shouldn't be required just to pass it through to a VM.

Great, thx, got my order placed. Hopefully, next weekend, I can get Sage going on the new server.

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by WellThen

Cable
http://www.amazon.com/3WARE-Cable-Mu...d_bxgy_e_img_y

Monoprice also sells the breakout cables in varying lengths. If you're a Prime member on Amazon, the difference in price may wind up being a wash.

[WellThen]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

Monoprice also sells the breakout cables in varying lengths. If you're a Prime member on Amazon, the difference in price may wind up being a wash.

Thanks, Skirge01, my cable came in from Amazon today. Expecting the M1015 tomorrow...

[WellThen]

Do you guys run a UPS on your ESXi server(s)? I've been used to the relatively low-risk world of WHSv1, and it occurred to me that with ESXi, there could be more to get corrupted in the event of a power outage.

[Skirge01]

I even used a UPS for WHSv1, before all the VM stuff happened. I have my DTV boxes, the HD-PVRs, a client PC, and my receiver all hooked up to it.

[WellThen]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

I even used a UPS for WHSv1, before all the VM stuff happened. I have my DTV boxes, the HD-PVRs, a client PC, and my receiver all hooked up to it.

Hey Skirge01, would you mind sharing what capacity UPS you are using? I think plugging my HD-PVR and Cable box into it might be a good idea also, now that you mention it.

I gather the UPS makers don't really claim how much run-time you can get, what do you find is sufficient to stop all of your VMs for orderly shutdown?

[Skirge01]

I've got the APC SUA1000. This allows me more than enough time to power everything down. I'll see what the PowerChute software says my runtime is on full load and let you know, but I seem to recall more than 20 minutes, which is plenty. The UPS makers can't really tell you, since everyone's power draw will be different. What you will generally see is an estimate for how long it will run under 1/2 load and also under full load. Obviously, if the power goes out, the first thing to do would be to power down everything else hooked up (e.g. STBs, HDPVRs, etc), so that you get as much time as possible.

[BobPhoenix]

I use a CyberPower UPS and the ESXi appliance detailed in this post to automate turning off the PC in a power outage. Just make sure you have the VMWare tools installed in all VMs.

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

I use a CyberPower UPS and the ESXi appliance detailed in this post to automate turning off the PC in a power outage. Just make sure you have the VMWare tools installed in all VMs.

I had read similar articles, but never tried the separate VM appliance route. However, going through the comments on the one you linked to, there's a MUCH easier way if running 5.1. If you're running 5.0U1 (like I am), then this method is supposed to work.