Older PC Hardware for HDPVR Playback

[WellThen]

My new HDPVR is creating some nice .ts files, and they play back fine on my newer Sage Win7 client. However, I have a couple of older XP (slower machine) clients that I'd like to get working for playback, if they're up to it. I've locked my cable box to 720p, to give my older clients a fighting chance, and given up on SPDIF audio for now, since some recordings (probably those with 5.1 audio) were not getting any audio in the recording.)

Client #1 is Win XP, Pentium 4 2.6 Ghz with an Nvidia GeForce 8400GS video card. Since this one has the best video card, I had the highest hopes for it being able to do H.264 playback. Based on what I've read here, I've downloaded the latest video drivers, and tried 2 different versions of the Arcsoft codecs, as well as the current DIVX codec. With all of these, I do get video with H.264, but much-slower-than-normal-speed video playback, with the audio playing ahead in real-time. The DIVX site lists the 8400GS as supported, but I don't know whether the processor is too slow for this to work, or if I likely have some other problem.

Client #2, also XP, is an Athlon 3800+ processor with a NVidia GeForce 6600GT. I figured that I'd have to upgrade the video card in this one to be able to do H.264 playback, but I wanted to ask before I invested any more in this machine. I never get any video or audio on this machine with either of the above codecs, it basically just sits there with a black screen until I hit Stop.

My stopgap right now is to convert each .ts file to Apple TV Widescreen HD, which plays back OK (a little stutter-y at times) on any of my clients. But that rules out live TV, or even playback anytime soon after a recording. Appreciate any suggestions folks. Thanks.

[darcilicious]

Well, the Hauppauge site says dual core 2.0GHz minimum required (I'm assuming that's for playback)... but maybe someone else has managed to get decent playback with similar hardware as yours.

Also (and I'm no expert) I'd be tempted to try Windows 7 on those clients instead of necessarily updating the video card...

[SHS]

Is the Server Windows 7 or Windows XP?.

[SWKerr]

Do the boards have PCIe slots. There are a lot of $40 solutions that will fit that slot. If it is older than that than a new card may not make sense.

Also: are you going to old analog sets on the older boxes?

[SteveD]

Install a blue ray analysis tool on the system and it will inform you of the short comings. If you pass blue ray specs you should be able to play the ts.

[WellThen]

Wow, thanks for the feedback! Appreciate the help figuring out what to try.

Darcilicious - I've thought about trying Windows 7 on these machines, just hoping to get someone to confirm that they are likely to work before I invest.

SHS - the server is WHS v1.

SWKerr - Client #1 (Pentium 4 2.6) has an AGP slot, no PCI-E.
Client #2 (the Athlon 3700+) is on an Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe motherboard, which has PCI-E. I think the GeForce 6600+ is in a SLI slot (supports dual video cards, but the other slot is empty)

SteveD - Thx, I'll go looking for blueray analysis tools

[SWKerr]

Windows 7 is going to run better and give a better picture than XP even on older hardware. I always had tearing issues with XP. It will not however overcome a weak video card. You can get a Win7 Family pack for about $150 that give you the right to upgrade 3 PCs. If you have\know someone with the DVD then you can install and run for awhile with out having to activate.

The Athlon will need a new Video Card, the ATI 5450 is about $30 shipped at NewEgg. They all will do VGA, HDMI but most no longer have Svideo etc. The load goes to the card with the right video codec so the old cpu will make little difference.

I would not upgrade the IGP and am not sure about the 8400GS. You may be able to get it working. It would be right on the edge of when I got good results but I never had that card. I have a 8500GT that works great on 1080i and had a 7600GS outputting to an analog TV ok for awhile but it has been a long time since I used XP and those cards.

[WellThen]

Originally Posted by SWKerr

Windows 7 is going to run better and give a better picture than XP even on older hardware.

The Athlon will need a new Video Card, the ATI 5450 is about $30 shipped at NewEgg. They all will do VGA, HDMI but most no longer have Svideo etc. The load goes to the card with the right video codec so the old cpu will make little difference.

SWKerr,

Thanks, I'll start watching for Win7 Family pack deals

As for the video card, can you recommend something that will work with component output? My projector only takes component input, so from what I've read I can't use the ATI 5450. I read on AVSFORUM that the ATI 4xxx were the last series to work with component - any recommendations from them or something else?

[Fastrack]

Originally Posted by WellThen

SWKerr,

Thanks, I'll start watching for Win7 Family pack deals

As for the video card, can you recommend something that will work with component output? My projector only takes component input, so from what I've read I can't use the ATI 5450. I read on AVSFORUM that the ATI 4xxx were the last series to work with component - any recommendations from them or something else?

Well I'm running a P4 @ 3GHz, bit faster. But I'm running 1080p on a Benq w5000. Using an AGP 8x ASUS ATI AH3650BFG Silent.

I tried ALL the codecs I could find, until I came across the MPC Standalone filters. For h264 playback I use:
- Haali Media Splitter
- MPC Video Dec
- Ac3 Filter (SPDIF)
- Edited SageClient.properties (always_use_dshow_player=true)
- Full screen exclusive mode

mpeg2 HDHR files:
- Cyberlink PowerDVD 9 codec

I also playback files from HDHR which is 720p or 1080i. OTA.

HDHR files use around 5-8%cpu and h264 high bit rate files use around 10%.

I'm also running Windows XP sp2.

The Nvidia 8600 may playback h264. You should download DXVAChecker.

What your looking for is DXVA1 (2 is used by EVA in Windows 7).

[SWKerr]

Originally Posted by WellThen

SWKerr,

Thanks, I'll start watching for Win7 Family pack deals

As for the video card, can you recommend something that will work with component output? My projector only takes component input, so from what I've read I can't use the ATI 5450. I read on AVSFORUM that the ATI 4xxx were the last series to work with component - any recommendations from them or something else?

Finding Component out now will be difficult as they seem to have stopped making them for the most part. The ones still around seem to be pricey. Faced with a similar dilemma awhile back for getting Svideo output I bought a converter from monoprice.com rather than compromise on the video card.

monoprice.com sells a HDMI to Component converter for $40. Buying that and getting ATI 5450 or Nvidia 430 might make more sense.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...t=1#largeimage

I have one of these sitting in the closet which would be perfect for you but they don't sell them anymore. Perhaps ebay or Craigslist.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127301

[WellThen]

Originally Posted by Fastrack

The Nvidia 8600 may playback h264. You should download DXVAChecker.

What your looking for is DXVA1 (2 is used by EVA in Windows 7).

Fastrack,

I downloaded DXVAChecker, and ran it on my PC with the Athlon (the other PC is tied up with the Spouse tonight). Here's what I got. I see DXVA1, as you suggested, but I'm not sure what it all means.

[WellThen]

Originally Posted by SWKerr

I have one of these sitting in the closet which would be perfect for you but they don't sell them anymore. Perhaps ebay or Craigslist.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127301

SWKerr,

So, you're saying if I found one of these, plus the converter you recommended from Monoprice, then I would have component output from a video card that could do H.264?

[Fastrack]

Originally Posted by WellThen

Fastrack,

I downloaded DXVAChecker, and ran it on my PC with the Athlon (the other PC is tied up with the Spouse tonight). Here's what I got. I see DXVA1, as you suggested, but I'm not sure what it all means.

You have this:
ModeH264_MoComp_NoFGT_PureVideo

Should work with the MPC Video Decoder. If you do not want to register filters etc... Download Media Player Classic and try playing an h264 see what your CPU usage is.

If it's low cpu you can pursue downloading the MPC Standalone filters

The only file I use from the ZIP is the MPC Video Dec "MPCVideoDec.ax" drag this into your \windows\system32 directory and register it using dos

regsvr32 MPCVideoDec.ax

I download Haali Separately or you can use MatroskaSplitter.ax from the zip as well (register the same way).

h264's now should play in Windows Media Player. If they do not. You'll have to play around with DirectX Filter order and check it using GraphEdit (threads on Sage forums explain this)

[SWKerr]

Originally Posted by WellThen

SWKerr,

So, you're saying if I found one of these, plus the converter you recommended from Monoprice, then I would have component output from a video card that could do H.264?

I would buy one of the $30 ATI 5450 Cards and plug the HDMI out into the $40 converter box from monoprice.com. ($70 total) They are not making decent Video Cards with Component out anymore and the ones you can find new are expensive and less powerful than the cheap ATI 5450. The converter box would also work with other devices or a new PC if you ever upgraded.

I linked the older 8500GT to let you know there are some older cards out there that are perfect for your situation but you may have some challenges finding them. If you could find something it should probably be less than the $70 for the above combo of Card and Converter.

Unfortunately an HD300\200 extender would be perfect but you can't get one anymore.

[WellThen]

Originally Posted by Fastrack

You have this:
ModeH264_MoComp_NoFGT_PureVideo

Should work with the MPC Video Decoder. If you do not want to register filters etc... Download Media Player Classic and try playing an h264 see what your CPU usage is.

If it's low cpu you can pursue downloading the MPC Standalone filters

The only file I use from the ZIP is the MPC Video Dec "MPCVideoDec.ax" drag this into your \windows\system32 directory and register it using dos

regsvr32 MPCVideoDec.ax

I download Haali Separately or you can use MatroskaSplitter.ax from the zip as well (register the same way).

h264's now should play in Windows Media Player. If they do not. You'll have to play around with DirectX Filter order and check it using GraphEdit (threads on Sage forums explain this)

OK, some good news here. I downloaded MPC to the Pentium 2.66Ghz with the NVidia 8400GS, and tried playing one of the .ts files. It played great! Now off to try to figure out how to get the decoders set up to play inside Sage.

[WellThen]

Aargh! Can't get Sage to playback .ts files. I just get a black screen. Here are the things I've done:

1) Downloaded MPC, and found that the .ts file plays well in there.
2) Downloaded and registered the MPC Video Decoder
3) Ran GraphEdit, which said it could not render the file
4) Found and installed the Haali Splitter. Now, GraphEdit can render file, and it plays beautifully (see attached graph)
5)Tried to get the file to play in Sage - Set H264 Video Decoder Filter to 'MPC - Video decoder'
6) Try to play file in sage - Black screen that just sits there

I do have the ArcSoft decoders installed from an earlier attempt - but since I'm specifically choosing MPC for the H264 decoder, should that matter?

[Fastrack]

Originally Posted by WellThen

Aargh! Can't get Sage to playback .ts files. I just get a black screen. Here are the things I've done:

1) Downloaded MPC, and found that the .ts file plays well in there.
2) Downloaded and registered the MPC Video Decoder
3) Ran GraphEdit, which said it could not render the file
4) Found and installed the Haali Splitter. Now, GraphEdit can render file, and it plays beautifully (see attached graph)
5)Tried to get the file to play in Sage - Set H264 Video Decoder Filter to 'MPC - Video decoder'
6) Try to play file in sage - Black screen that just sits there

I do have the ArcSoft decoders installed from an earlier attempt - but since I'm specifically choosing MPC for the H264 decoder, should that matter?

Ok here are a few things which you may or may not have done, since your Graph looks good.

1) Play the file in Windows Media Player - make sure it works
- You should see Ac3Filter & Haali icon in the tray
- For Ac3Filter make sure "show tray icon" is checked on the System tab.
2) To ensure Haali is being loaded by SageTV used "Windowed mode" - this will disable Full screen exclusive mode which is required on slower processors.
3) In the SageClient.properties - "always_use_dshow_player=true"

NOTE: I have a lot of issues with "file types" in Sage as the built in splitter likes to hang onto certain files. The h264 files from my Canon 5D are ".mov" and they don't play - black screen like your describing. I had a .TS file just last week that wouldn't play (actually crashed SageTV) so I renamed it to .MKV and it worked!

4) Rename the files to .MKV and they will play for sure. As MKV's will be picked up by the same filter chain - Haali -> Ac3filter, MPC Video Dec.

*** Make sure you have Full Screen Exclusive checked off and VMR9 (You can not use overlay). Sometimes I find coming out of Windowed mode - back to full screen. I have to shutdown Sage and bring it back up in order to get Full Screen Exclusive mode back.

[WellThen]

Originally Posted by Fastrack

1) Play the file in Windows Media Player - make sure it works
- You should see Ac3Filter & Haali icon in the tray
- For Ac3Filter make sure "show tray icon" is checked on the System tab.
2) To ensure Haali is being loaded by SageTV used "Windowed mode" - this will disable Full screen exclusive mode which is required on slower processors.
3) In the SageClient.properties - "always_use_dshow_player=true"

NOTE: I have a lot of issues with "file types" in Sage as the built in splitter likes to hang onto certain files. The h264 files from my Canon 5D are ".mov" and they don't play - black screen like your describing. I had a .TS file just last week that wouldn't play (actually crashed SageTV) so I renamed it to .MKV and it worked!

4) Rename the files to .MKV and they will play for sure. As MKV's will be picked up by the same filter chain - Haali -> Ac3filter, MPC Video Dec.

OK, when I played back in WMP, the video did play, although very choppy. And, I did see both AC3 and Haali in the System Tray. But when I tried to play in Sage as you suggested, only the AC3 icon showed up in the System Tray. So Haali is not being chosen by Sage for .ts files. What can I do to force Sage to use Haali?

I didn't try to rename the file yet. I know this must be a stupid question, but if I rename it, won't Sage not be able to find it to play it? If Sage thinks the file is Shallow Hal.ts, won't it fail to find Shallow Hal.mkv?

Thanks for all your help.

[Fastrack]

Originally Posted by WellThen

OK, when I played back in WMP, the video did play, although very choppy. And, I did see both AC3 and Haali in the System Tray. But when I tried to play in Sage as you suggested, only the AC3 icon showed up in the System Tray. So Haali is not being chosen by Sage for .ts files. What can I do to force Sage to use Haali?

I didn't try to rename the file yet. I know this must be a stupid question, but if I rename it, won't Sage not be able to find it to play it? If Sage thinks the file is Shallow Hal.ts, won't it fail to find Shallow Hal.mkv?

Thanks for all your help.

Did the file play choppy in GraphEdit as well? For Sage to see the file you'd have to rescan your media library. Or Search -> Browse File Systems and select the file manually (Saves times on re-scans if your running a reallllllllly slow machine)

However there is no point in trying to get Sage to play the files if WMP can't. As the Sage overheads adds to the ability to playback the files.

I'm quite surprised that MPC can play the files and WMP if you the right codecs, WMP should be able too.

For SageTV decoder settings I have "Default" set for everything MPEG2 and h264. As I have used DirectX Filter priority to disable the filters which I don't want used. I would start with pressing play within GraphEdit - if it plays there try and determine why it can't play in WMP.

[WellThen]

Originally Posted by Fastrack

Did the file play choppy in GraphEdit as well? For Sage to see the file you'd have to rescan your media library. Or Search -> Browse File Systems and select the file manually (Saves times on re-scans if your running a reallllllllly slow machine)

However there is no point in trying to get Sage to play the files if WMP can't. As the Sage overheads adds to the ability to playback the files.

I'm quite surprised that MPC can play the files and WMP if you the right codecs, WMP should be able too.

For SageTV decoder settings I have "Default" set for everything MPEG2 and h264. As I have used DirectX Filter priority to disable the filters which I don't want used. I would start with pressing play within GraphEdit - if it plays there try and determine why it can't play in WMP.

The good news is that the file plays smoothly MPC, and in Graphedit after hitting play. The bad news is that it played choppily in WMP (but it did play, and use the correct filters).

I will try setting the decoder for H264 to Default in Sage. I may have to decrease the merit on the Arcsoft decoder, as I think that one gets selected when I choose default for H264.

Oh, and thanks for the tip on getting a renamed file recognized.