Ceton works...except for a couple of HD channels

[meisner]

I just "upgraded" my tuner setup from a Hauppauge USB tuner and an HD-PVR (plus a Comcast DTA & USB-UIRT, Firewire channel changing) to a Ceton InfiniTV plus SageDCT 1.4. The conversion went very easily. Got the Ceton setup and was tuning channels very quickly.

I am running Windows 7 Home Ultimate (32 bit) with Media Center removed and SageTV v7.1.9.

I have resumed my recording schedule (which is all HD channels) and have found something interesting. When I record from USA HD, it works perfectly. When I record from Commedy Central HD, I get a black screen and errors about the recording failing. I assume this is becuase the size of the .TS is not growing. But I get nothing on CC-HD. There are a few channels (which I am paying for) that I cannot record from using the Ceton. I tried recording from 2 other HD channels and watching a 3rd on an extender...this worked fine.

According to the Ceton diag tool, I can tune in Comedy Central HD and there are no problems.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I have changed the recording channel to the SD version of Comedy Central in the meantime.

I should also mention I am running the latest Ceton firmware (1.0.9.5, IIRC)...no change when I updated it. And that I'm on Comcast.

[evilpenguin]

Can you fire up Windows Media Center and check there?

[meisner]

I was going to do exactly that tomorrow. Since my setup is working so well (except for a couple of HD channels), I was going to use a spare drive and install Win7 fresh.

I just wasn't sure if anyone else had encountered this situation. I am reading on another forum that Comcast has some screwy policies where some HD content is set to Copy Once and it was causign problems in a MythTV setup. A call to Comcast corporate fixed it.

http://www.silicondust.com/forum/vie...62766c9fa5dc09

[sflamm]

In the bay area - Comcast has 'copy once' on Comedy Channel HD, Biography HD and 1 other I can't remember off the top of my head.

I use my HD-PVRs to tune those in... damn shame because otherwise I could completely get rid of my STBs.

I have also noticed that some channels take a long while before the Ceton/SageDCT/SageTV tunes them in... investigation from babgvant has led to the conclusion that it is a bug in the SageTV splitter... which of course now will never be fixed. They do tune - just take a long while which is only a problem if you are watching live TV (which I almost never do).

[sflamm]

Also note that the Ceton diagnostics tool has the ability to manually tune a channel for you and will tell you what the broadcast flags are...

[meisner]

And there in the device web page, it says channel 858 (Commedy HD) copy control information is set to "One Copy" (0x2).

WTF!?!? I pay for this channel...Why can't I record from it? I am sure if I got a Comcast DVR I could record CC HD.

I really hate calling Comcast corp offices...but I think I again need to.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by meisner

And there in the device web page, it says channel 858 (Commedy HD) copy control information is set to "One Copy" (0x2).

WTF!?!? I pay for this channel...Why can't I record from it? I am sure if I got a Comcast DVR I could record CC HD.

I really hate calling Comcast corp offices...but I think I again need to.

Sounds like you didn't do your homework before buying. Copy protected channels only work with WMC and DRM. there are several threads about them not working with Sagetv or any other program. Calling Comcast will get you no where they have the right to set the flag on any channel they want which sucks but consider yourself lucky my cable company marks everything except locals with copy once flags.

[meisner]

I did do some research, but it was a case of "not knowing what I didn't know" and wasn't sure exactly what to search for in the forums.

I still think if I am paying for the channel, I should be able to watch it or record from it...but that's my opinion, which Comcast doesn't really care about.

I was going to call just to see what they had to say about it...but maybe it wouldn't be worth it.

Thanks for the replies guys.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by meisner

I did do some research, but it was a case of "not knowing what I didn't know" and wasn't sure exactly what to search for in the forums.

I still think if I am paying for the channel, I should be able to watch it or record from it...but that's my opinion, which Comcast doesn't really care about.

I was going to call just to see what they had to say about it...but maybe it wouldn't be worth it.

Thanks for the replies guys.

You can watch if if you are using a cable labs supported device/software which sagetv is not Babgvant has done a wonderful job integrating it but it still isn't supported by cablelabs.

[meisner]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

You can watch if if you are using a cable labs supported device/software which sagetv is not Babgvant has done a wonderful job integrating it but it still isn't supported by cablelabs.

Is there any chance of this happening once the whole Sage/Google thing is finsihed?

Also, I was thinking more about your initial reply. How would I have done more research to avoid this problem? If I (before purchasing the Ceton HW) called Comcast and asked them which channels were copy protected, I realy wouldn't know if I was getting accurate info from them. When I called to activate my card, the guy had no idea what the InfiniTV was and he was at a loss until I mentioned I had the info he needed (from the Ceton diags tool).

[matt91]

so we have one data point (datum point?) for Nashua/Comcast/Comedy Central HD as a failing the "copy freely" test.

Is this collected someplace so that we can make a somewhat informed buying decision? I'd hate to buy a cable card tuner only to find out that 25% of my channels are copy once (and I know it can change at any time)

[sflamm]

The way you could have determined that was by using your STBs diagnostics mode to look at the flags for each of the channels you were interested in (a painful channel by channel process but accurate)

If you are missing only a channel or two (as I am) then you are in great shape

I suppose you could always use 7MC if you they are so critical, but then you'd lose all the value of SageTV.

[matt91]

yeah, i suppose. except that I don't even have a STB hooked up to a TV, so it's even more painful.

I was just hoping that these stats were collected someplace.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by matt91

yeah, i suppose. except that I don't even have a STB hooked up to a TV, so it's even more painful.

I was just hoping that these stats were collected someplace.

no I wish there was, but as is it is complete up to the cable provider to set the flags they don't even have to follow the distributors flags and can set them to whatever they want. They can also change them anytime they please. It's a crappy situation.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by meisner

How would I have done more research to avoid this problem?

Well you initial question states you didn't know why you were getting a black signal Research would tell you that's copy protected I am not knocking you by any means it is a very confusing technology and is heard to clear the FUD from reality sometimes. Especially when you see post about Ceton and SageTV it is easy for people to think it just works regardless.

[Fonceur]

Originally Posted by meisner

Also, I was thinking more about your initial reply. How would I have done more research to avoid this problem?

Well, we don't have access to cablecard and such in Canada, but even I knew that the SageTV solution didn't work for copy protected channels... It's the same issue as Firewire/Clear QAM for the last 5-10 years, it is up to the channel and/or TV provider to set or not the copy always/once/never flag...

[crarbo1]

They can also set the copy once flag on a show per show basis, right? If that is the case, then you can't always tell what will record or not based on Ceton's diagnostic page.

If the above is true, what happens if a channel in which you thought was copy freely, has a particular show marked as copy once and I record that show. Does it give the "Halt Detected" message and then record a black screen? I have had that happen to me a few times but I just initially thought it was a fault of the tuner or SageDCT, but now I'm wondering.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Chuck

[d2globalinc]

From what I understand - YES they can do it on a show per show basis.. and they can also decide at anytime to move all channels but local ones to "Copy Once" at which time SageTV wont work with any of em but locals.. So here we all thought finally we would be able to use our own Media Servers (Sage, myth, etc) - because we we're finally getting cablecard devices and CableCard self install kits from our providers, but in reality they just figured out another way to block/encrypt the channels so they only work with devices they want to sell or make money off off (Tivo, Microsoft Media Server, etc)..

So once again the cable company's win, consumers lose.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by d2globalinc

So here we all thought finally we would be able to use our own Media Servers (Sage, myth, etc) - because we we're finally getting cablecard devices and CableCard self install kits from our providers,.

I never thought this and doing research would tell you the same as do the companies that sell the tuners tell you it requires a cable labs certified DRM to work fully guaranteed and WMC is that only option right now.

[meisner]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

...it requires a cable labs certified DRM to work fully guaranteed and WMC is that only option right now

Not to repeat myself...but...

Originally Posted by meisner

Is there any chance of this happening once the whole Sage/Google thing is finsihed?