HDHomeRun (HDHR) Prime + SageDCT

[sflamm]

SageDCT relies on the underlying Windows UPnP infrastructure. Whatever feature/role installs that on W2K3R2 needs to be enabled.

Windows 2003 R2 does not have a supported means of installing UPnP.
However, there is a method. For those interested it can be found here:

http://camie.dyndns.org/technical/wmp11-server2003/

I have not done it yet but will soon. Just backed up my machine first
I will report back after I am done.

In my testing the delay adds a few seconds to the time it takes to "tune" a channel. So instead of taking ~3 seconds, it takes 6-7.

That's a huge difference when you are surfing on the couch I'm sure folks would greatly appreciate it.

Given that we're only talking about a few seconds I suspect that there aren't huge gains to be had. More importantly, I'm hesitant to pull VLC in-process. Diagnosing "memory leaks" will become much more difficult.

Understood. Maybe you can make it an option with a check box?
That way if it turns out to leak like a sieve you can always spawn out the thread and kill it as before.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by sflamm

That's a huge difference when you are surfing on the couch I'm sure folks would greatly appreciate it.

I'm sure they would, but it's unlikely that I will add it. If someone wants to figure out how to automate VLC from C# and provide a sample setting up a RTP listener, I might change my mind.

TBH, I'm not sure how much longer I'll be using SageTV and there are other things I want to get done too.

Originally Posted by sflamm

That way if it turns out to leak like a sieve you can always spawn out the thread and kill it as before.

Doesn't really work like that

[Sparhawk6]

Originally Posted by babgvant

TBH, I'm not sure how much longer I'll be using SageTV and there are other things I want to get done too.

What are you thinking of moving to?

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by Sparhawk6

What are you thinking of moving to?

If the Echo works out, probably WMC -> Q (maybe). If it doesn't, I'm not sure but it's getting about time [for me] to call this thing done.

The lack of information around the future of SageTV+ and the inability to evolve the platform is very frustrating. It's hard to support something that [using the duck test] is dead. If I can't support it, might as well move on to something worth the time/effort.

[Sparhawk6]

Originally Posted by babgvant

If the Echo works out, probably WMC -> Q (maybe). If it doesn't, I'm not sure but it's getting about time [for me] to call this thing done.

The lack of information around the future of SageTV+ and the inability to evolve the platform is very frustrating. It's hard to support something that [using the duck test] is dead. If I can't support it, might as well move on to something worth the time/effort.

Those are my sentiments exactly. If the Echo doesn't work out, I might consider an Xbox, despite all the reasons I have been avoiding it so far. Or I might *gasp* consider a Tivo with the new Tivo "mini". The mini is a Tivo extender, and your Tivo box essentially acts as a server. I just had not being able to expand the storage space easily on my own, and of course I despise the $15 monthly fee.

Also, Comcast will soon be coming out with a totally revamped STB and DVR. That might pull me away.

Anyway, sorry to de-rail this thread. I wanted to know what Andy was thinking.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by Sparhawk6

Those are my sentiments exactly. If the Echo doesn't work out, I might consider an Xbox, despite all the reasons I have been avoiding it so far. Or I might *gasp* consider a Tivo with the new Tivo "mini". The mini is a Tivo extender, and your Tivo box essentially acts as a server. I just had not being able to expand the storage space easily on my own, and of course I despise the $15 monthly fee.

Also, Comcast will soon be coming out with a totally revamped STB and DVR. That might pull me away.

I would never get a CE PVR; their interests and mine cannot align.

It's actually something that concerns me in the Q model outlined by Ceton at CES. As tempting as it sounds, I'm not sure that I'm willing to give up the control I have now over the system.

[emveepee]

Originally Posted by babgvant

The lack of information around the future of SageTV+ and the inability to evolve the platform is very frustrating. It's hard to support something that [using the duck test] is dead. If I can't support it, might as well move on to something worth the time/effort.

That's sad news. I know there are active NextPVR users using SageDCT for their Ceton DVRs. NextPVR doesn't have a problem with these streams either so it won't need transcoding. NextPVR is still activelly developed, it does have Slicon Dust based DVR support and I expect the HD-PVR 2 will be when it available, but there still is a place for new users of SageDCT who can't get STV

Martin

[nyplayer]

First thanks babgvant if it wasn't for you I would have left Sage already. Cablecard is working fine.

The developers will slowly go away or quit developing its a shame because Sage is a nice product. I am currently looking at moving to wmc... the problem right now is the other users in my household.


For now I will slowly move my favorites to wmc .. and import into sage... also will do the same to other users.... eventually one day I will simply say Sage stopped working I do not know what happened.

[sflamm]

If history is any guide I wouldn't go counting your chickens yet.
Sure the WMC/Echo sounds promising... but how many times has something sounded promising (remember all the other WMC extenders that fell by the wayside)? And how long does it take to get from promising to ironed out well? (even the Ceton PCI tuner which simply tunes channels took months and months to become mostly bug free - and it still struggles to tune some channels the HDHR3 tunes instantly... I run both). Also WMC has always had fundamental restrictions on distributing media types to its extenders and the Echo will most likely still be constrained by those. With SageTV I can literally watch anything anywhere (BD, DVD, MKV, ...). Perhaps the Q will eventually overcome that but the Q is a long way off... and how many of us are going to spend $$$ on that? WMC is free.
Furthermore, at the end of the day the Q will be a CLOSED environment, even worse than WMC which could be hacked somewhat sitting on a PC.

SageTV is still a known winner and literally only system of its kind (client/server) And until the other solution becomes proven I am unlikely to move my production system (clients in ALL rooms with a seamless SageTV experience everywhere) to an untested unproven idea.

SageDCT is the single most valuable addition to SageTV - having made it possible for us to leverage Ceton PCI and HDHR3 after most cable providers went and encrypted all our great channels leaving us desperately clinging to HD-PVR solutions that were much slower and not as reliable (sorry satellite guys).

I see SageDCT being used for at least the next year or two practically speaking... the work of SageDCT is not lost on the many many grateful SageTV users that have a rock solid system that has been easy to use, extensible and running for years (yes years). Hell - I'm sure most of us would be willing to donate because of how much value it brings.

[emveepee]

Originally Posted by nyplayer

The developers will slowly go away or quit developing its a shame because Sage is a nice product. I am currently looking at moving to wmc... the problem right now is the other users in my household.

WMC is as enticing to me as it was in 2005. Here is Canada, there is zero incentive, the Ceton Echo, Dish Joey's and even CableCard are all for the American market. I didn't want DVR-MS, I don't want WTV and I want to be able to watch things I record on any PC or extender I own, live or in-progress, even when I replace hardware, my main reason for the HDPVR. One of the real joys of using product like SageDCT which expands a user's horizon makes its' potential death almost as tragic as SageTV's.

Martin

[sflamm]

babgvant:

SageDCT relies on the underlying Windows UPnP infrastructure. Whatever feature/role installs that on W2K3R2 needs to be enabled.

I successfully installed the SSDP and upnp services and they are up and running fine. I also installed SageDCT and it starts fine as well.

In ConfigureSageTV ran 'search' under 'discovery' and it returns no results (The HDHR software sees the tuners fine and QuickTV works perfectly)

In the 'ConfigureSageDCT_6048.log':

------------------------------------------------------------------------
2012/08/21 22:36:17.68 : SearchComplete
2012/08/21 22:36:59.20 : SearchComplete
2012/08/21 22:37:49.26 : SearchComplete
2012/08/21 22:44:58.89 : DeviceRemoved: uuid:86cb68a7-93a2-4b3c-9638-e832ef3bfae8
2012/08/21 22:44:58.89 : DeviceRemoved: uuid:86cb68a7-93a2-4b3c-9638-e832ef3bfae8
2012/08/21 22:44:58.89 : DeviceRemoved: uuid:86cb68a7-93a2-4b3c-9638-e832ef3bfae8
2012/08/21 22:44:58.89 : DeviceRemoved: uuid:86cb68a7-93a2-4b3c-9638-e832ef3bfae8
2012/08/21 22:44:58.89 : DeviceRemoved: uuid:86cb68a7-93a2-4b3c-9638-e832ef3bfae8
2012/08/21 22:44:58.89 : DeviceRemoved: uuid:86cb68a7-93a2-4b3c-9638-e832ef3bfae8
2012/08/21 22:44:58.89 : DeviceRemoved: uuid:86cb68a7-93a2-4b3c-9638-e832ef3bfae8
2012/08/21 22:44:58.89 : DeviceRemoved: uuid:86cb68a7-93a2-4b3c-9638-e832ef3bfae8
2012/08/21 22:44:58.89 : DeviceRemoved: uuid:86cb68a7-93a2-4b3c-9638-e832ef3bfae8
2012/08/21 22:45:30.37 : SearchComplete
2012/08/21 22:46:04.73 : SearchComplete

In the 'SageDCT_2740.log':

------------------------------------------------------------------------
2012/08/21 22:27:55.62 : SageDCT, Version=2.5.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null Service start
2012/08/21 22:27:57.89 : SageDCT Service complete start
2012/08/21 22:28:06.95 : SearchComplete
2012/08/21 22:44:58.89 : DeviceRemoved: uuid:86cb68a7-93a2-4b3c-9638-e832ef3bfae8
2012/08/21 22:44:58.89 : Tuner uuid:86cb68a7-93a2-4b3c-9638-e832ef3bfae8 removed.

The Windows 2003 Firewall is disabled.

What is wrong?

Thanks in advance.

[sflamm]

I turned on verbose logging:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
2012/08/22 00:01:39.95 : SageDCT, Version=2.5.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null Service start
2012/08/22 00:01:39.95 : Current User: NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM
2012/08/22 00:01:40.98 : Drive: A:\ Type: Removable
2012/08/22 00:01:40.98 : Drive: C:\ Size: 107381518336 Space: 58813685760 Type: Fixed
2012/08/22 00:01:40.98 : Drive: D:\ Size: 108130201600 Space: 25662279680 Type: Fixed
2012/08/22 00:01:40.98 : Drive: E:\ Size: 1280932048896 Space: 627199791104 Type: Fixed
2012/08/22 00:01:40.98 : Drive: F:\ Size: 2998219550720 Space: 247480487936 Type: Fixed
2012/08/22 00:01:40.98 : Drive: H:\ Type: CDRom
2012/08/22 00:01:40.98 : Drive: I:\ Type: CDRom
2012/08/22 00:01:40.98 : Host IP: 10.0.0.2
2012/08/22 00:01:41.14 : NIC Info IP: 10.0.0.2 Name: NAS
2012/08/22 00:01:41.14 : NIC Info IP: 127.0.0.1 Name: MS TCP Loopback interface
2012/08/22 00:01:41.17 : New UPnPMOCURFind
2012/08/22 00:01:41.19 : SageDCT Service complete start
2012/08/22 00:01:41.19 : CleanLogs
2012/08/22 00:01:50.19 : SearchComplete
2012/08/22 00:01:50.19 : CheckAssignments Tuners: 0 Assignments: 0 Enabled: 0
2012/08/22 00:01:50.19 : All assigned tuners have been found
2012/08/22 00:02:38.18 : UPnPDevice Found: HDHomeRun Prime Tuner ID: uuid:F63E2C13-40BE-3B37-811B-54291A067394
2012/08/22 00:02:38.18 : NIC: {544E24AE-99DA-4654-8AF3-E39948977EF4} Hosting Device uuid:F63E2C13-40BE-3B37-811B-54291A067394 - HDHomeRun Prime Tuner 131104FC-0
2012/08/22 00:02:38.21 : Tuner uuid:F63E2C13-40BE-3B37-811B-54291A067394 found.
2012/08/22 00:02:38.21 : Static Assignment not found for uuid:F63E2C13-40BE-3B37-811B-54291A067394 - HDHomeRun Prime Tuner 131104FC-0
2012/08/22 00:02:38.87 : UPnPDevice Found: HDHomeRun Prime Tuner ID: uuid:87C71C12-3DFD-3592-9A67-A312C03120FB
2012/08/22 00:02:38.87 : NIC: {544E24AE-99DA-4654-8AF3-E39948977EF4} Hosting Device uuid:87C71C12-3DFD-3592-9A67-A312C03120FB - HDHomeRun Prime Tuner 131104FC-1
2012/08/22 00:02:38.87 : Tuner uuid:87C71C12-3DFD-3592-9A67-A312C03120FB found.
2012/08/22 00:02:38.87 : Static Assignment not found for uuid:87C71C12-3DFD-3592-9A67-A312C03120FB - HDHomeRun Prime Tuner 131104FC-1
2012/08/22 00:02:39.04 : UPnPDevice Found: HDHomeRun Prime Tuner ID: uuid:43130C1B-4666-3CD6-B1E0-1F6454C4C3FE
2012/08/22 00:02:39.04 : NIC: {544E24AE-99DA-4654-8AF3-E39948977EF4} Hosting Device uuid:43130C1B-4666-3CD6-B1E0-1F6454C4C3FE - HDHomeRun Prime Tuner 131104FC-2
2012/08/22 00:02:39.04 : Tuner uuid:43130C1B-4666-3CD6-B1E0-1F6454C4C3FE found.
2012/08/22 00:02:39.04 : Static Assignment not found for uuid:43130C1B-4666-3CD6-B1E0-1F6454C4C3FE - HDHomeRun Prime Tuner 131104FC-2

What do I do?

[sflamm]

Oddly enough the tuners showed up after a while... not sure why the discover took so long?! Any ideas on what is going on in terms of the discovery times?
I assume that once it has been discovered once it is all good going forward (uses macaddr??)

I generated the assignments and put into SageTV and it seems to be working.

Since I use a single video storage directory is there a performance advantage by using the local file rewrite and substituting a directory (i.e. c:\Recorded TV) instead of the network entry \\NAS\RecordedTV? Or should I just leave it as is?

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by sflamm

Also WMC has always had fundamental restrictions on distributing media types to its extenders and the Echo will most likely still be constrained by those.

But we don't know if those are limitations of the extenders or WMC's extender protocol. Remember there have been no new extenders since Windows 7 came out, and what hints Ceton's reps/employees have dropped make it sound like it will play most things.

With SageTV I can literally watch anything anywhere (BD, DVD, MKV, ...).

It's getting to the point where I can't do that with Sage without hard resetting the HD300 in my HT almost daily. It's pretty inevitable it will lock up requiring a hard reset. And I have no interest in going back to SageClient on a PC and all it's issues (especially with trying to get BDs to work)

SageTV is still a known winner and literally only system of its kind (client/server)

SageTV was a good system with (thought to be) known potential, and at least for me a number of bugs that now aren't going to get fixed and become more annoying every time I use it.

I see SageDCT being used for at least the next year or two practically speaking... the work of SageDCT is not lost on the many many grateful SageTV users that have a rock solid system that has been easy to use, extensible and running for years (yes years). Hell - I'm sure most of us would be willing to donate because of how much value it brings.

Unfortunately my system is no longer rock stable, and the things that aren't stable require SageTV to fix, which isn't going to happen, so my only two viable options are to go back to the limited functionality I had (no HBR bitstreaming of BDs mainly, but no HDMI from my HD300 in general) or look elsewhere. I've got too much invested in the rest of my system to go backwards, so I have no viable options but to look elsewhere.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by sflamm

Since I use a single video storage directory is there a performance advantage by using the local file rewrite and substituting a directory (i.e. c:\Recorded TV) instead of the network entry \\NAS\RecordedTV?

Yes. You skip the loopback load on the NIC.

[razrsharpe]

Originally Posted by sflamm

The Windows 2003 Firewall is disabled.

There have been reports that the windows firewall needs to be enabled and have exceptions for the appropriate ports... perhaps that is the issue.

I have win2003 as well and went through a similar procedure to get ssdp and upnp services installed... once they were installed the setup/install went just like it should

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by sflamm

If history is any guide I wouldn't go counting your chickens yet.

I'm not counting chickens, just looking for a viable exit strategy. As much as I'd like to keep using SageTV we now know (at least in part) where Google is taking the platform, it's not a direction where I can follow. Obviously this market is an area of great personal interest to me, dead products don't belong in my stack.

Originally Posted by sflamm

With SageTV I can literally ...

TBC, I didn't mean to imply that SageTV couldn't continue to be the right choice for you (or anyone else). Just that it is no longer the right choice for me.

Originally Posted by sflamm

Perhaps the Q will eventually overcome that but the Q is a long way off... and how many of us are going to spend $$$ on that? WMC is free.
Furthermore, at the end of the day the Q will be a CLOSED environment, even worse than WMC which could be hacked somewhat sitting on a PC.

Ceton is a lithe, dynamic company and things can change b/w CES and now+. I know that Ceton understand our use cases, preferences, etc. at a very deep level. We'll just have to wait and see where the Echo/Q end up; if it doesn't deliver it won't be because of ignorance or the lack of effort (time constraints and licensing could be blocking). I really hope that it does work out because 1) it would make my transition easier and 2) we need a viable, supported alternative to MSO/TiVO DVRs.

When I started using SageTV it was because the platform had promise, delivered enough of what I needed, and it was nice to be listened to (even if they didn't do what I wanted, at least there was a set of ears on the other side). Two of those points are already met, I just need to find out if they can deliver the third.

[FMAX]

Originally Posted by Sparhawk6

Wow, well it's working now! The channels I previously could not see are now viewable. As you had said, tuning takes a little longer now. But it's worth it if I can view the channel. Great work babgvant!

Sparhawk6, babgvant.... Just checking, does using vlc for video rendering live tv work only on client, not on extender? Or, my hope is that this is the fix for all my No Signal woes and it works on all extenders as well? I'm assuming Sage DCT uses VLC to render to SageTV in which it can be seen thru the server on all extenders...
Thus the extra step is the delay. Am I correct?

Originally Posted by babgvant

TBH, I'm not sure how much longer I'll be using SageTV and there are other things I want to get done too.

Say it isn't so Joe!! Thanks for the time and hard work to make my whole house server more Wife friendly......

[sflamm]

Yes. You skip the loopback load on the NIC.

Does the syntax substitute everything before the recorded file name?

i.e. \\x\y\z\filename.ts --> c:\z (to write in same directory)
\\x\y\z\filename.ts --> c:\ (to write in new directory)

Please let me know if I have it right.

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by sflamm

SageTV is still a known winner and literally only system of its kind (client/server) And until the other solution becomes proven I am unlikely to move my production system (clients in ALL rooms with a seamless SageTV experience everywhere) to an untested unproven idea.

SageDCT is the single most valuable addition to SageTV - having made it possible for us to leverage Ceton PCI and HDHR3 after most cable providers went and encrypted all our great channels leaving us desperately clinging to HD-PVR solutions that were much slower and not as reliable (sorry satellite guys).

I see SageDCT being used for at least the next year or two practically speaking... the work of SageDCT is not lost on the many many grateful SageTV users that have a rock solid system that has been easy to use, extensible and running for years (yes years). Hell - I'm sure most of us would be willing to donate because of how much value it brings.

+1

I haven't posted about this for fear of jinxing myself, but HDHR+Prime with SageDCT has been flawless for me since I installed it a few months ago. So far I have to say it's been the most reliable of all the tuners I have used (PVR-150, HVR-2250, HDHomrun, HD-PVR, and Colossus). I'm using it with Comcast btw.

Thanks for your hard work Andy!