Just in case- Alternatives to SageTV

[jerryt]

Originally Posted by Deacon Crusher

http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/10/c...nder-hands-on/

Amazing how quickly things can change...

[wayner]

Any word on price for the main unit and the Echos?

Assuming that it can play back most of the content that Sage can then this is looking really good.

Maybe Google should come out with their own SageTV embedded version of the Q and their own Echos (aka HD-300s).

To bad that the Q and Echo are useless to Canadians since our cable companies won't give out Cable Cards.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by gplasky

It's Windows Media Center. They are just using Windows 7 embedded to deliver it.


EDIT: Check out all the gallery pictures. You'll see the interface:
Engadget Q Gallery

Gerry

Yeah, it needs to support DVD and Blu-ray rips, or at the very least MKV with chapters.

The bigger question for me, given my super-crappy cable provider I have to choose from is can I use the Ceton extender with a "regular" Windows Media Center machine running HD-PVR or Collossi. Or will the Q support HD PVRs.

If you're stuck with Ceton's Q and it doesn't support HD PVRs then it looks like the HR34 and a new Samsung TV are a better choice.

[Deacon Crusher]

Ceton can record copy protected items like HBO, just right now you can't playback through Sage.

If their e extenders can playback everything their Q recorders record, included copy protected items, is this still an issue?

Agree about the MKVs and hopefully ISOs and/or at least folder based DVD rips so I don't have to go back through all of those and turn them into MKVs.

Originally Posted by stanger89

Yeah, it needs to support DVD and Blu-ray rips, or at the very least MKV with chapters.

The bigger question for me, given my super-crappy cable provider I have to choose from is can I use the Ceton extender with a "regular" Windows Media Center machine running HD-PVR or Collossi. Or will the Q support HD PVRs.

If you're stuck with Ceton's Q and it doesn't support HD PVRs then it looks like the HR34 and a new Samsung TV are a better choice.

[jchiso]

Originally Posted by Deacon Crusher

http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/10/c...nder-hands-on/

This just seems like a cable box. A Sage setup is provider-independent. Would this even perform captures from DirecTV receivers?

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Deacon Crusher

Ceton can record copy protected items like HBO, just right now you can't playback through Sage.

If their e extenders can playback everything their Q recorders record, included copy protected items, is this still an issue?

I'm not sure I follow, yes it would be because the Dish and DirecTV don't support CableCard.

Agree about the MKVs and hopefully ISOs and/or at least folder based DVD rips so I don't have to go back through all of those and turn them into MKVs.

Well if it does MKV that would be OK, maybe I should back up and explain my whole problem with Windows Media Center as a solution for me today:

I have Dish for a couple reasons, because they've got a substantially better HD selection (all but one or two channels I watch with any regularity) than the cable provider, the cable provider (Mediacon) is about the worst provider in the country. I refuse to switch to cable unless something truly dramatic happens.

I also have a lot of DVDs and Blu-rays on my unRAID box that I watch as well.

In a nutshell, the problem with Windows Media Center is that multi-room TV and multi-room media are mutually exclusive. You either have a main server/HTPC with 7MC and extenders for multi-room TV, or you have HTPCs everywhere for multiroom media (DVDs/Blu-rays). For either one independently, 7MC would work pretty well for me, but I "need" both.

What makes the Ceton announcement interesting for me is that it sounds like (from the comments by Eric from Ceton on AVS) that the Ceton extender should have "good" media support, it should play a lot of things the Xbox doesn't. They haven't gone into specifics (that I've seen) but he made the comment that they understand the desire for a Windows Media Extender with robust media support.

So if the Ceton extender does support, lets say at a bare minimum, MKV with native Blu-ray audio/video (folders would be ideal, but at least MKV is no-destructive quality-wise), then we've essentially solved the showstopper with Windows Media Center, pending a couple of questions/clarifications:

Does the Ceton extender work with 7MC on a normal PC (ie with HD PVR/Collossi for Dish/DTV).

OR

Does the Ceton server support HD PVR/Collossi for Dish/DTV or is it only useful for cable (and OTA?)

In principal, if the Ceton extender (why can't I remember the actual name? ) can do Blu-ray audio/video in some container, and can be connected to a server (either the Ceton or a 7MC PC) with something to record HD from D*, I'll have found something to at least invest in to investigate, if not switch to.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by jchiso

This just seems like a cable box. A Sage setup is provider-independent. Would this even perform captures from DirecTV receivers?

Sorry to be blunt on this but RTFA.

You provide a link to the article where the word CableCARD is in the first sentence. Of course it doesn't work with with DirecTV service but it works with any cable company that will rent you a CableCARD.

Just like the Ceton CableCARD tuner, the HDHomeRun Prime, and the Hauppauge DCR-2650 which can work with SageDCT with some shortcomings.

The advantage to these devices is that they allow you to tune digital channels without needing a cable box and they directly capture the digital transport stream. That is pretty hard to do in SageTV other than for OTA channels or from R-5000 modded boxes. To have a similar system in Sage would require 6 HD-PVRs or Colossuses along with 6 STBs from your cable and satellite provider and some way of tuning channels on those devices. That would be an extremely ungainly setup.

[jchiso]

Originally Posted by wayner

Sorry to be blunt on this but RTFA.

You provide a link to the article where the word CableCARD is in the first sentence. Of course it doesn't work with with DirecTV service but it works with any cable company that will rent you a CableCARD...

Well, when I think of an "Alternative to Sage" I think of something that does what Sage does, but is not Sage; like GBPVR or MythTV. I don't know what a CableCard or CableCARD is, but it would not be of use to me in my setup. I don't know what Canada is like, but in the U.S. local cable companies can be pretty crappy as far as lineups go. You can't get programming comparable to DirecTV from a cable provider in most places in the U.S.: that's why DirecTV does as well as it does ...

[wayner]

Alternatives to Sage are anything that gives you PVR functionality for TV for the most part. Many people are talking about leaving Sage and considering the alternatives available from satellite or cable companies. This looks like just one of those options and this is most similar to a TiVo or a Windows Media Center based HTPC system.

In Canada the channel lineup between the major cable cos and the satellite providers is pretty similar although I believe the cable cos generally have a better quality picture due to less compression as they have more bandwidth available than the satellite providers (Bell and ShawDirect).

[jchiso]

Originally Posted by wayner

Alternatives to Sage are anything that gives you PVR functionality for TV for the most part...

Well, by that standard a Tivo box or a DirecTV DVR is an "alternative". I think of a SageTV alternative as being a software-based solution that supports clients and can capture content from any set-top-box that can output its signal to a display and/or decoder. I acknowledge that you disagree with my position, but I see no need to be "blunt" or abrasive ...

[wayner]

Sorry - I didn't mean to be rude and for the most part I agree with you. But many other folks find an HTPC to be a bit of a pain in the butt and if they can get 90% of the functionality with much less hassle then they are willing to go with it.

If this works as adverstised this looks like a very good solution for folks that have a good cable service available.

[Bagal]

Originally Posted by stanger89

The bigger question for me, given my super-crappy cable provider I have to choose from is can I use the Ceton extender with a "regular" Windows Media Center machine running HD-PVR or Collossi.

This is what I'm interested in as well, given that Linksys, D-Link etc stopped making extenders due to the limited market I can't believe that Ceton would limit themselves to just the US market when there's a global market of HTPC users willing to buy a decent extender, not to mention the large number of existing users that have already invested in a Ceton tuner...

[davephan]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Really, the first question you have to ask is what is sage NOT doing for you now, and do any other options do this for you?

I think people are mainly concerned with how do I add additional extenders now and how do I prepare for when the current extenders start breaking. With any disaster recovery plan, you need to be prepared before the disaster, not wait until the disaster occurs before developing a plan. It's far better to have a SageTV client alternative in place, since Google will not sell or give away the client licenses.

I also own a GoogleTV device. It is a huge letdown over what SageTV can do. It's mainly good for YouTube videos and light web surfing. The interface is very slow, so it is somewhat painful to use, unless you are very patient and can put up with the clunky interface.

I wish I would have bought client licenses while they were still for sale. I didn't. Now it's too late. When the SageTV extenders start breaking, and they will break eventually, then I might have to use imaging and an automated client re-install every 21 days if there isn't a viable SageTV client alternative the day the first extender breaks. It's not if they break, it is when. It's like any hardware, your failure might be decades away, or it could be within the next minute.


Dave

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by davephan

I think people are mainly concerned with how do I add additional extenders now and how do I prepare for when the current extenders start breaking. With any disaster recovery plan, you need to be prepared before the disaster, not wait until the disaster occurs before developing a plan. It's far better to have a SageTV client alternative in place, since Google will not sell or give away the client licenses.

I think that's really the source of my "discomfort" with the status quo. Sage works great today, but I don't want to wait until something catastrophic happens (like my HD300 dies or something) and then have to rush to find a solution.

I'd rather spend this time, while I have a working system, figuring out my next system and getting it set up the way I want it, than having to rush to get something to work in the event something goes horribly wrong with my Sage system.

Best example right now is I've got issues with HBR bitstreaming on my HD300 with the latest beta firmware, and Sage won't be fixing that. I'm hopefully I can find a magic older firmware that works better.

[ybrew]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

And there are lots of rumors that before passing Steve Jobs "cracked the code" for an "insanely great" iTV. Who knows... everybody who is anybody seems to be doing something in this area. I think the future is bright, but it's unclear who the winner will be.

I was about to say "we are the winners" until I read your second paragraph...

I just hope I'm not forced into buying an iBluRay player, iGameConsole, and an iTV if Apple is the winner. Oh, and none of this stuff will work unless you are using iElectricity that you can only buy using iDollars from your iDebit card

Now I'm not so sure!

[jerryt]

Another WMC embedded Set top box, but with OTA tuners.

http://thedigitalmediazone.com/2012/...top-box-in-us/

[ybrew]

My Sage setup is still going strong. And I expect it to continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

But the last two pages of this thread give me great hope that when it's time to move on, I'll have some great alternatives to look at.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I think that's really the source of my "discomfort" with the status quo. Sage works great today, but I don't want to wait until something catastrophic happens (like my HD300 dies or something) and then have to rush to find a solution.

I'd rather spend this time, while I have a working system, figuring out my next system and getting it set up the way I want it, than having to rush to get something to work in the event something goes horribly wrong with my Sage system.

Best example right now is I've got issues with HBR bitstreaming on my HD300 with the latest beta firmware, and Sage won't be fixing that. I'm hopefully I can find a magic older firmware that works better.

That's one of the many reasons I prefer clients. Not tied to the inevitable hardware failure. I seem to remember that was everyone's complaint when the extenders came out, was that you were tied into the sagetv solution. It was discussed, and many decided they were an acceptable risk. But it WAS always a risk.

[stanger89]

Except I've never been happy with Client's video performance since I got my HD100, and I generally don't like PCs for playback.

[jchiso]

Originally Posted by wayner

Sorry - I didn't mean to be rude and for the most part I agree with you. But many other folks find an HTPC to be a bit of a pain in the butt and if they can get 90% of the functionality with much less hassle then they are willing to go with it...

HTPCs aren't the source of the pain: it's Windows. That's why I'd would prefer an Alternative that can run on a Linux platform.

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

That's one of the many reasons I prefer clients. Not tied to the inevitable hardware failure. I seem to remember that was everyone's complaint when the extenders came out, was that you were tied into the sagetv solution...

I think that's where this discussion should be focused. Jumping to someone else's hardware-specific solution is just repeating an inevitable cycle ...