Just in case- Alternatives to SageTV

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by emveepee

That's all good information, if there's no date NextPVR can schedule any day in that time. Can you tell if that is local time? If it is that can be a nuisance when the time zone changes.

At this stage it looks like there is more then enough to get a preliminary NextPVR database, certainly enough to try it out, maybe ask questions and maybe provide sub with some Wishlist items, to ease any possible conversion. The good thing is there is no rush, (XP proves that obsolete programs can live a long time) to convert but it's good to starting preparing.

I was really impressed yesterday when I set up the SageTV server, and I can see why there are threads lamenting the passing. That being said I hope some of you provide feedback sooner rather than later. Sub is very receptive to new ideas and I think it's nice to have an option of supporting new users as well as what is now a closed circle of SageTV users. NextPVR while good now, will definitely keep getting better and better (unless google offers sub an offer he can't refuse too http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/imag...onbanghead.gif) who want more than that.

Martin

For any information that isn't in the web interface xml's, you can get them through the sagex remote api. Install the General -> sagex-services - SageTV Remote API Services by stuckless plugin on the sagetv server. You can then get the information you want through http requests that return an XML file. (after installing the plugin, connect to http://localhost:8080/sagex/api for some documentation)

(actually, pretty much all the information you are looking for may actually be IN the xml returned by the GetMediaFiles call (http://localhost:8080/sagex/api?c=Ge...tart=0&size=10 would grab you the first 10 results) For instance, watched duration would be in <Result><MediaFile><Airing><WatchedDuration>time in ms</WatchedDuration></Airing></MediaFile></Result>

[joe123]

Originally Posted by stanger89

No I don't. What I do think is that if Jeff had been offered enough simply to kill SageTV, he wouldn't be stopping by the forum "flaunting" his good fortune (posting smiley-laden posts about how he feels about it. Were it the case that Google bought Sage simply to kill a competitor, I do not think:

My goodness, do you guys live in the real world?

Google will NEVER come out and flat out say what they will do with a product they buy. They may have even winked-winked at Jeff saying that he would remain an employee of Google working on what was SageTV.

Jeff or (name your person) will drop SageTV in a heart beat for the right amount of millions and/or Google Stock options.

As a side note. I have on my home office a "TeleBouncer" from Dasym. It is used to filter out Telemarketers. That business along with many others have been bought out for their intelectual properties by the big phone companys to be burried and never seen again and to file law-suits against any one else trying to create such a device.

Try looking up today for devices that will filter out Telemarkerters and you will find few if any.

[emveepee]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

For any information that isn't in the web interface xml's, you can get them through the sagex remote api. Install the General -> sagex-services - SageTV Remote API Services by stuckless plugin on the sagetv server. You can then get the information you want through http requests that return an XML file. (after installing the plugin, connect to http://localhost:8080/sagex/api for some documentation)

Thanks Fuzzy that sounds very promising, I'll browse to documentation tonight.

Martin

[heatvent]

Wow it's fun to read through this and all the Jeff's this and Jeff's that and Google's thises and thoses. I'll throw mine in too.

SageTV is gone, dead, gone. Google bought the company to own it and the technology. They didn't have to buy SageTV, they wanted something. They have no interest in the hobbyist DVR market and certainly won't tarnish their good reputation to help ex-SageTV customers bend the rules with the media companies.

Leaving the forum open, letting us have v7 upgrades is damage control. Google is protecting its reputation and is trying to be fair. Doesn't mean they will give us any more but they did throw us a bone in good faith.

Sage will die over time. This may be a nice shot in the arm for some other DVR solutions. The less hard core hobbyists will ditch their extenders on Ebay and use the money to go back to the cable co. DVR, some will buy a TIVO, some will go MCE. Those more hard core hobbyists will probably hang on to what they have but start showing some interest in moving other platforms along to get back what they once had.

Me, I'm in the middle. Probably tempted more the way of MCE as it's more mainstream and time is a luxury I don't have. For now, ain't broke and works better than other alternatives and I don't have time to set them up anyway.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by emveepee

Thanks Fuzzy that sounds very promising, I'll browse to documentation tonight.

Martin

reRead my post.. i edited it with some more info.. it looks like this is the method you should use to get your data (instead of the web UI), as it contains pretty much everything you are looking for in it's XML's.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by emveepee

That's all good information, if there's no date NextPVR can schedule any day in that time. Can you tell if that is local time? If it is that can be a nuisance when the time zone changes.

Yes it appears to be a local time in the xml but I suppose I should have set it to 1pm on the favorite and then generated the XML. I will try that next.

At this stage it looks like there is more then enough to get a preliminary NextPVR database, certainly enough to try it out, maybe ask questions and maybe provide sub with some Wishlist items, to ease any possible conversion. The good thing is there is no rush, (XP proves that obsolete programs can live a long time) to convert but it's good to starting preparing.

I was really impressed yesterday when I set up the SageTV server, and I can see why there are threads lamenting the passing. That being said I hope some of you provide feedback sooner rather than later. Sub is very receptive to new ideas and I think it's nice to have an option of supporting new users as well as what is now a closed circle of SageTV users. NextPVR while good now, will definitely keep getting better and better (unless google offers sub an offer he can't refuse too http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/imag...onbanghead.gif) who want more than that.

Martin

I will be trying nPVR but I'm not sure how soon. My systems are running well.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

Yes it appears to be a local time in the xml but I suppose I should have set it to 1pm on the favorite and then generated the XML. I will try that next.

I will be trying nPVR but I'm not sure how soon. My systems are running well.

It gets worse on the timeslot for the XML generated by the WebServer anyway. The DAY is listed but IN the timeslot:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="no"?>
<!DOCTYPE sageShowInfo PUBLIC "-//NIELM//DTD SAGESHOWINFO XML 1.3//EN" "http://sageplugins.sourceforge.net/nielm_modules/sagexmlinfo/sageshowinfo_1_3.dtd">
<sageShowInfo version="1.3">
    <systemInfo>
        <alertLevel description="Status" level="0"/>
    </systemInfo>
    <channelList/>
    <favoriteList>
        <favorite favoriteId="7538287">
            <title>Rockford Files</title>
            <channelName>WOIDT2</channelName>
            <timeslot>Sunday 1PM</timeslot>
            <firstRun/>
            <reRun/>
            <quality>Default</quality>
            <startPadding>120</startPadding>
            <stopPadding>120</stopPadding>
            <autoDelete/>
        </favorite>
    </favoriteList>
    <showList/>
    <systemMessageList/>
</sageShowInfo>

It looks like Fuzzy gave you a better approach so I will not post any more on the WebServer.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by joe123

My goodness, do you guys live in the real world?

Google will NEVER come out and flat out say what they will do with a product they buy.

Did you not read a think I said? Where did I ever say I expected us to hear from Google what the plan is...

All I said was I don't think Jeff would be so cheery around us if this was just a buy-to-crush operation, in fact I said I agree that I think there's no future for SageTV.

[joe123]

Originally Posted by stanger89

All I said was I don't think Jeff would be so cheery around us if this was just a buy-to-crush operation, in fact I said I agree that I think there's no future for SageTV.

Ok got it. My take is that Jeff would quickly and easily drop the ball "SageTV" in a heart beat with the right amount of millions.

Adios SageTV!
Adios SagetTV employees!
Adios supporters who put in countless hours and will never see a penny!

[joe123]

Originally Posted by heatvent

Sage will die over time.

Yes. Quicker than not.

Amazing to see how the Media Extenders were QUICKLY ABORTED from any further sales.

Imagine those folks who recently bought a system and were going to buy media extenders (HD300) to work with their new SageTV setup in the months to come. I know of one person who I actually recommended SageTV to. He has been left holding the bag.

If Jeff cares about SageTV as some here imply, why did Jeff allow the SageTV hardware to be so quickly aborted with no further sales?

[mistergq]

Originally Posted by stanger89

No I am not joking, I've had enough interactions with Jeff/SageTV over the years I think i have a reasonable understanding of at least the type of businessperson he is.



No I don't. What I do think is that if Jeff had been offered enough simply to kill SageTV, he wouldn't be stopping by the forum "flaunting" his good fortune (posting smiley-laden posts about how he feels about it. Were it the case that Google bought Sage simply to kill a competitor, I do not think:

• Jeff would be posting that he's happy about it.
• The forum would remain open.
• All existing users would be given a free V7 upgrade.
• Etc.

IMO this all suggests that Jeff didn't just sell us out, and that Google isn't seeking simply to crush a competitor. Yes, in business everyone has a price, but SageTV has been Jeff's baby for many years, and he's worked very closely with the community, and I think he's got enough class and has earned enough trust/respect that we can take him at his word that he accepted the deal because he thinks it will lead to something better.


Now all that said...



I think it's "worse" than that actually, I think Google isn't even going to bother "changing" SageTV, I think SageTV is gone, and at best some of it's technology (DVR backend?) will be used in future Google endeavors.

I don't know how Jeff's knowledge, talents or technology will be used at Google, but yes, I don't think it will be SageTV Unicorn in the form of SageTV 7 plus everything we've ever wanted.



Yup, exactly. The only thing Sage was really a competitor to is other PC DVRs, and really at this point that's just Windows Media Center (as far as commercial competitors who might think of buying-to-bury). And Sage isn't even big enough to be a threat to them anyway.



I don't know, I'd bet Google had a plan going in, something specific they wanted. Looking at some of the Google quotes I've seen floating around, it seems they have plans/interest on incorporating more "TV" functionality into GoogleTV. So I really do think the most likely situation is that Google wanted a robust DVR backend for Google TV.

I also think that if they had a good DVR solution with GoogleTV functionality, it would be something they could sell to OEMs (Echostar, Motorola, Scientific Atlanta, etc) to incorporate into their DVRs.

I'm very curious to see what all comes out of this, I just hope we know, ie at some point we will be allowed to hear from Jeff what's going on. Even though I have serious doubts it will be of use/interest to me personally.

Excellent post. +1

[flavius]

Yes. Take it or leave it.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by joe123

Yes. Quicker than not.

Amazing to see how the Media Extenders were QUICKLY ABORTED from any further sales.

Imagine those folks who recently bought a system and were going to buy media extenders (HD300) to work with their new SageTV setup in the months to come. I know of one person who I actually recommended SageTV to. He has been left holding the bag.

If Jeff cares about SageTV as some here imply, why did Jeff allow the SageTV hardware to be so quickly aborted with no further sales?

The general consensus (and what makes sense) is that the purchase of SageTV came with some liabilities (not much, but some). The biggest of those liabilities is Hardware (HD300) warranties. Google has to honor those warranties, as that commitment came with the purchase. If they have no plans to continue producing the HD300, than the only source of warranty replacement extenders is the currently held stock. It is very reasonable for them to hold them for a year (the length of the warranty for the last purchased HD300), so they don't face a breech of contract suit for failure to provide warranty replacements. After a year, they will be able to scrap them, or what most companies do, liquidate them to a 3rd party wholesaler for as-is sales, leaving no further obligations to the customers.

[emveepee]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

(actually, pretty much all the information you are looking for may actually be IN the xml returned by the GetMediaFiles call (http://localhost:8080/sagex/api?c=Ge...tart=0&size=10 would grab you the first 10 results) For instance, watched duration would be in <Result><MediaFile><Airing><WatchedDuration>time in ms</WatchedDuration></Airing></MediaFile></Result>

The API is certainly powerful, however it is it is much slower than the web interface for extracting the entire showList, but it does expose the values I need to populate NextPVR.

The API is also rich enough to provide other applications a pretty simple means recording some of the capture devices, which might not be supported otherwise.

Martin

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by emveepee

The API is certainly powerful, however it is it is much slower than the web interface for extracting the entire showList, but it does expose the values I need to populate NextPVR.

The API is also rich enough to provide other applications a pretty simple means recording some of the capture devices, which might not be supported otherwise.

Martin

For those, you may want to instead look at the network encoding scheme. This allows the server to be run in such a way that it exposes a network protocol for controling a SageTV compatible encoder. It has very simple commands (like Tune to channel x, record to file x:\yyy.zzz, stop, etc.)

[nycjoe]

Does anyone think there's any chance google will open source SageTV once they've taken whatever piece of it they intend to incorporate into their product?

[joe123]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

The general consensus (and what makes sense) is that the purchase of SageTV came with some liabilities (not much, but some). The biggest of those liabilities is Hardware (HD300) warranties.

Yes of course, but you missed my main point.

Jeff had to agree in writting when Google told him very clearly that Google was going to screw SageTV customers by getting rid of SageTV extenders over-night. Not even a 3 months notice.

So Jeff thought about SageTV customers, loyal SageTV contributors who have put in thousands and thousands of hours for Free for Jeff "SageTV" and then Jeff took a look at the MONEY Google offered him and he came to a decision.

We now know what the decision was in favor of.

[gplasky]

But did you ever notice there never was a great quantity of extenders in stock? The Sage inventory was always kept pretty tight. That's why there was sometimes a long gap between shipments and the store was empty. Did it ever occur that there may not have been that much inventory left iin the first place? Or that they agreed to let the inventory sell out and just close up shop? So much speculation based on..........nothing.

Gerry

[joe123]

Originally Posted by gplasky

Or that they agreed to let the inventory sell out and just close up shop? So much speculation based on..........nothing.

The few times that I inquired about HD300, they had plenty of them. For one major project my friend was working on awhile back, he inquired about dozens and SageTV had much more than that.

How much warning (in days) did Jeff give prior to selling off SageTV?

These negotiations take months to finalize all the while Jeff kept selling SageTV licenses and extenders to customers who now have been left holding the bag.

[Biggen]

Originally Posted by joe123

These negotiations take months to finalize all the while Jeff kept selling SageTV licenses and extenders to customers who now have been left holding the bag.

I'm a business owner who employees about 10 people. I can tell you that if I had people seriously interested in purchasing my business I would be as "tight lip" as Jeff was and not tell a soul except for my family/close friends. You don't want to scare off potential customers AND employees if the deal doesn't go through. People see businesses for sale as weak or not profitable.

So I don't blame Jeff for not announcing anything before hand. It's business. Nothing personal...