Just in case- Alternatives to SageTV

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by wayner

Have you tried shows that are currently recording? In some other apps if you start watching a 2 hr show 1 hour into the show you will only see the first hour as it can't see anything that didn't exist when you started watching. But if you then exit out and restart the show you will get the rest - or at least up until the point that you started watching.

If it did work this way then the plugin could perhaps be altered to also list any currently recording shows.

This is a big issue for me as I watch sports on a slight time delay and not watching currently recording shows is a big problem for me, although not so much for the rest of the family.

I'm still working on getting that tool working. I may need to move away from WHS' DE tech to do so, though, and that will take some time.

But, I don't think that the way SageTV records shows will allow XBMC to play them back until they're finished. (Feel free to try it out yourself, of course!)

For your sports or any other live TV, I'd just fire up SageTV and watch through there. What might make even more sense would be to hook up a STB just for live TV.

[TBacker]

The developers that are working on getting ForTheRecord working under XBMC says they've got live viewing and recording playback working, just stuck on EPG and bugfix stuff...

XBMC thread at ForTheRecord

[tmiranda]

I'm not sure what using Sage as a backend for XBMC really gets you. (Other than a different UI that is very appealing.) As Phoenix, Ortus and others have show the Sage front end is very flexible. I'm more worried about the back end not being updated, that's what will make Sage non-competitive in the market. This won't happen overnight but sooner or later the lack of development on the back end will force people to look for alternatives.

Hopefully Jeff and friends will have something interesting for us to try before that happens.

My current strategy is not to see what's available to replace Sage today (because Sage's functionality today is really no different than it was a month ago) but rather wait and see what's available when I need/want functionality that Sage can no longer deliver.

Replacing Sage today is like replacing your car today because the car is going to wear out in a year or two. I don't normally buy a new car until the one I own actually needs replacing. And when my car does need replacing odds are it will be replaced with a model that doesn't even exist today.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

I'm not sure what using Sage as a backend for XBMC really gets you. (Other than a different UI that is very appealing.) As Phoenix, Ortus and others have show the Sage front end is very flexible. I'm more worried about the back end not being updated, that's what will make Sage non-competitive in the market. This won't happen overnight but sooner or later the lack of development on the back end will force people to look for alternatives.

What it gets you is more clients. What if I want to add
another client or two? There is no legal way to do this today. But I could add XBMC clients, including via Apple TV2 or other "extenders" to my heart's content.

Although it would be nice to have the backend be continually developed I am not sure what else I would want in the backend as Sage does a great job if recording any and all content that I have. There is unlikely to be changes in the environment for TV in the near future as we have just completed the transition to ATSC (although that is still a few months away here in Canada). The biggest risk is that the component outputs get disabled on STBs but I am not overly worried about that today.

IMHO the biggest change in the backend will be the continuing move to online content and XBMC as a client should be able to catch those changes.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

For your sports or any other live TV, I'd just fire up SageTV and watch through there. What might make even more sense would be to hook up a STB just for live TV.

I actually do have STBs at almost all of my TVs but I HATE watching Live TV. IMHO the biggest benefit of Sage is for sports since they have so much dead time. Hockey or Basketball games can be watched in about an hour compared to the actual broadcast time of about 2.5 hours - who wants to watch 5 timeouts in the last 2 minutes of an NBA game? That is a huge productivity enhancement. For baseball or football the time gained would be even more.

I typically start watching these games around 9-10pm the night of the game if I have the chance after the kids have gone to bed. Now I would have to wait until the game ends but that is problematic since the game ending time has some "informational content" as it lets you know if the game went into overtime (or not) - assuming that you are using SRE which you want to do as you don't want to miss the overtime. Or I guess I can do a minimum of 30 minutes of padding for all sports games.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by wayner

Although it would be nice to have the backend be continually developed I am not sure what else I would want in the backend as Sage does a great job if recording any and all content that I have. There is unlikely to be changes in the environment for TV in the near future as we have just completed the transition to ATSC (although that is still a few months away here in Canada). The biggest risk is that the component outputs get disabled on STBs but I am not overly worried about that today.

My problem is no new tuner/encoder cards added to the backend. So when Hauppauge comes out with a Mega-Colossus that actually works. It won't with SageTV because the backend isn't being developed.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

My problem is no new tuner/encoder cards added to the backend. So when Hauppauge comes out with a Mega-Colossus that actually works. It won't with SageTV because the backend isn't being developed.

Is there really anything materially better that will come along in the next five years as far as recording TV? The Colossus can't do anything that the HD-PVR can't do (with the exception of unprotected HDMI which is of marginal utility) and doesn't seem any better when it comes to stability. I have had two HD-PVRs for two plus years with almost no problems.

But then the issue could be not having drivers for any new tuners that replace existing units like the HDHR4, HD-PVR v2, etc.

Just like we should have all bought 10 HD-300s a month ago, perhaps we should all buy backups for all of our tuning devices, USB-UIRTs, and all other similar hardware before they are discontinued.

[drewg]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

My problem is no new tuner/encoder cards added to the backend. So when Hauppauge comes out with a Mega-Colossus that actually works. It won't with SageTV because the backend isn't being developed.

If somebody cares enough, they can probably write a network encoder for it.

Drew

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by wayner

Is there really anything materially better that will come along in the next five years as far as recording TV? The Colossus can't do anything that the HD-PVR can't do (with the exception of unprotected HDMI which is of marginal utility) and doesn't seem any better when it comes to stability. I have had two HD-PVRs for two plus years with almost no problems.

But then the issue could be not having drivers for any new tuners that replace existing units like the HDHR4, HD-PVR v2, etc.

Just like we should have all bought 10 HD-300s a month ago, perhaps we should all buy backups for all of our tuning devices, USB-UIRTs, and all other similar hardware before they are discontinued.

Until recently the HD-PVR was only slightly better than the Colossus for me. Now that I'm on Win7 x64 with a NEC USB addon controller it is very good. I go months between lockups. I agree with getting extras. If I keep using the Colossus I will have an extra HD-PVR. And if I get another HVR-2250 or two I will have an extra there. Already have an extra HDHR. I like the 2250s because they are internal and only need one connection my HDHRs require two and buying the new HDHR would solve that problem but I already have extra now so don't need more of them.

Originally Posted by drewg

If somebody cares enough, they can probably write a network encoder for it.

Drew

Problem is I usually end up needing something in a hurry to replace a failed card. I've had terrible luck with HVR-2250s. Bought 3 of them but only have one left in working condition currently.

I don't plan on changing anytime soon but I am going to test other software now.

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

I'm not sure what using Sage as a backend for XBMC really gets you. (Other than a different UI that is very appealing.)

It gets me PVR functionality in a front-end which is actively under development.

As Phoenix, Ortus and others have show the Sage front end is very flexible.

True, but who knows how long these developers will continue writing for SageTV. Sooner or later, they're going to abandon it and I'm prepping for that eventuality.

That said, your point is well taken and spot on. I actually agree with you. I'm not leaving Sage yet and may very well keep using it for some time. But, I'm preparing.

To use your own analogy, I don't wait until my car NEEDS to be replaced. I start shopping way ahead of time, so that I can make an informed decision without any pressure due to time constraints or other outside influences. I can truly weigh the costs, performance, service, history, and warranty, and then make a decision on the car I want. Then, I can shop solely on price. Walking out of numerous dealerships over the course of several months is a pretty good feeling. Car salesman hate people like me, BTW.

I'm more worried about the back end not being updated, that's what will make Sage non-competitive in the market. This won't happen overnight but sooner or later the lack of development on the back end will force people to look for alternatives.

I hope so and--believe it or not--look forward to that day. At that point, I hope to be using a front-end which already supports my chosen back-end.

Hopefully Jeff and friends will have something interesting for us to try before that happens.

I'll certainly be open to that, too.

My current strategy is not to see what's available to replace Sage today (because Sage's functionality today is really no different than it was a month ago) but rather wait and see what's available when I need/want functionality that Sage can no longer deliver.

I'm looking now and will follow the progress of current or new options as they happen. If I find a solution that works quite well and gives me some compelling reasons to change, I'm game. In the mean time, I'm already finding some issues with my current setup, which--when remedied--will probably make it easier to transition to something else.

[darcilicious]

For what it's worth, the Boxee Box will playback live recordings without having to restart -- at least that's what it's doing right now with an active SageTV/HD PVR recording. Playback is just under 6 minutes behind recording and it's been going for 15 minutes.

Boxee Box has Netflix, might be getting Hulu+ someday (but it will work via PlayOn...)

Might be another option to consider at any rate.

(Oh I don't know if it does comskipping though, will try to find out).

[emveepee]

Originally Posted by mistergq

Which extenders does nPVR support? Do it support the Hauppauge HD-MVP?

It fully support the first gen NMT's (A1x00's Egreats) and the MVP.

Largely because of the potential interest from SageTV users I am also looking at the current gen 200 series Popcorn Hour player, maybe using their generic platform https://developer.popbox.com/c/devuser/home to make it a bit more future proof. I had a 200 series player nearly ready and then Sigma API updates broke it.

The Hauppauge HD-MVP is also high on my radar, and Hauppauge is both SageTV friendly and NextPVR friendly which doesn't hurt.

Martin

[VCRUser]

THe DVR functions are my primary interest, with most of the Sage features essential. (I don't need intelligent recording, auto-deletion, keep at-most, though) I have one server, 4 tuners, 1 Placeshifter license, USBUIRT, and 1 extender, and of course want to retain support for all of them. My main concerns are:

1. Program guide (within the U.S.)
2. Web interface (similar to the webserver plugin) that allows scheduling, conversion (where the converted file is recognized as a recording and attached to the metadata for the original), and other management activities via web
3. Ability to get support for future tuners.
4. Support for extenders, if/when my HD200 stops working

Watching in-progress recordings is desirable, but not a deal-breaker. Support for other media is nice to have, but less important. No need for fan art, fancy gui's. Would be nice to stream to my Android phone, but I can always copy the files I want to watch to the phone. My server is on XP and I don't want to be forced to change operating systems.

[Paul H]

Anybody considering James River Media Center?

[stanger89]

JRMC is great for music, but IIRC it doesn't have DVR features at all (I think it can view live TV).

[mistergq]

does nPVR support firewire changing?

[sub]

Originally Posted by mistergq

does nPVR support firewire changing?

Yes, via the timmoore firestb drivers.

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by stanger89

JRMC is great for music, but IIRC it doesn't have DVR features at all (I think it can view live TV).

Maybe you should take another look:
http://www.jriver.com/index.html

[whurlston]

Originally Posted by Paul H

Maybe you should take another look:
http://www.jriver.com/index.html

ATSC and DVB-T only. No QAM support.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Paul H

Maybe you should take another look:
http://www.jriver.com/index.html

I've got JRMC (I love it for music) and best I can tell, the recording features are very rudimentary. Basic time/channel stuff. I did have to look again to find that, but still I don't think it's in any way a substitute for Sage.