SageTV acquired by Google

[jm9843]

Originally Posted by SHS

And you piont s what? after all Gizmo5 = Google Voice

More accurately, Grand Central = Google Voice. People are upset with the Gizmo 5 acquisition because of a lack of SIP support for Google Voice on Android. The Gizmo 5 tech seems to have been rolled into VOIP calling from Gmail using Google Voice in the browser. I'd say it's only a matter of time before SIP through Google Voice is officially offered through Android (i.e. the beginning of the end of phone numbers) for a couple of reasons:

• native SIP support added in Android Gingerbread 2.3
• native Google Voice integration with a major US carrier (Sprint)
• the discovery of @sip.voice.google.com

For background on the last point see here: Google Voice Now Offers SIP Addresses For Calling Directly Over IP

Back on topic: still excited to see how Google utilizes SageTV and incorporates it into the larger Android ecosystem. I hope that Brent received some good news to report later.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by aedgington

If that's the case, then all the developers that put so much time and effort into Studio and really enhanced Sage's interface and brought it so far out of the niche application it was just got hung out to dry.

Unless they release the source code and we can get our Sage developers to take over the entire product, not just the plugins.

[pjt630]

I was a fan and user of SageTV since 2004. I've been on hold for the last year due to Comcast - Philly area encrypting (non clearQAM-not Sage's fault) all their starter tier of channels (non premium). I was going to start up again with the Ceton InfiniTV card and the SageDCT setup but now after this news I'm just migrating to WMC altogether.
Whether SageTV was acquired due to financial difficulty or couldn't pass up a great deal is irrelevant. While I sincerely wish the Sage crew much success and hope they made allot of money out of the deal, this type of sudden and complete shutting of doors even to the active user community just smacks of SageTV the software not ever existing again as a usable product in its present form. Loyal users like myself and others are now shut out with no future path with the product or even encouragement of moving forward with the evolution of Sage. I don't expect assurances but some kind of heads up to people buying licenses and hardware in the last, say, 3 weeks would have at least been professional and respectful from a business standpoint.
I find this acquisition announcement depressing and an insult to my product loyalty and faith. Ultimately, I'm now glad I didn't spend more as I was planning since I would have been just giving the team my hard earned cash for nothing.
With WMC I know Bill and Steve just want my money and don't really care to create a lasting quality product. They give all the great market speak but M$ at least doesn't pull any punches with its track record of crappy to almost good software and pricey licensing costs. I actually was floored when Win7 worked as fast and reliable as I have found it while actually being offered at decent license pricing for home users (~$45 a seat for a 3 pack of 7 Home Premium)! My preliminary testing of WMC was also favorable so I am fairly hopeful of implementing it without "allot" of headaches. Also, it is INCLUDED with every install of Win7 Home Premium. SageTV isn't. Google's acquisition of it doesn't guarantee that and I have grave doubts for the future of SageTV in view of other "deals" of this type by Google.
Before I bail completely I want to say sincerely to this community of users THANK YOU SO MUCH for years of assistance and knowledge to the point I've never had to ask or post since I've always FOUND the answer I needed generously and thoroughly given from some quarter of the user community going through the same issue as me. I hope and wish all of you folks well. It was a great ride while it lasted.

[mattdcknsn]

Originally Posted by pjt630

I was a fan and user of SageTV since 2004. I've been on hold for the last year due to Comcast - Philly area encrypting (non clearQAM-not Sage's fault) all their starter tier of channels (non premium). I was going to start up again with the Ceton InfiniTV card and the SageDCT setup but now after this news I'm just migrating to WMC altogether.
Whether SageTV was acquired due to financial difficulty or couldn't pass up a great deal is irrelevant. While I sincerely wish the Sage crew much success and hope they made allot of money out of the deal, this type of sudden and complete shutting of doors even to the active user community just smacks of SageTV the software not ever existing again as a usable product in its present form. Loyal users like myself and others are now shut out with no future path with the product or even encouragement of moving forward with the evolution of Sage. I don't expect assurances but some kind of heads up to people buying licenses and hardware in the last, say, 3 weeks would have at least been professional and respectful from a business standpoint.
I find this acquisition announcement depressing and an insult to my product loyalty and faith. Ultimately, I'm now glad I didn't spend more as I was planning since I would have been just giving the team my hard earned cash for nothing.
With WMC I know Bill and Steve just want my money and don't really care to create a lasting quality product. They give all the great market speak but M$ at least doesn't pull any punches with its track record of crappy to almost good software and pricey licensing costs. I actually was floored when Win7 worked as fast and reliable as I have found it while actually being offered at decent license pricing for home users (~$45 a seat for a 3 pack of 7 Home Premium)! My preliminary testing of WMC was also favorable so I am fairly hopeful of implementing it without "allot" of headaches. Also, it is INCLUDED with every install of Win7 Home Premium. SageTV isn't. Google's acquisition of it doesn't guarantee that and I have grave doubts for the future of SageTV in view of other "deals" of this type by Google.
Before I bail completely I want to say sincerely to this community of users THANK YOU SO MUCH for years of assistance and knowledge to the point I've never had to ask or post since I've always FOUND the answer I needed generously and thoroughly given from some quarter of the user community going through the same issue as me. I hope and wish all of you folks well. It was a great ride while it lasted.

+1

[Fountainhead]

Originally Posted by pjt630

?.. I don't expect assurances but some kind of heads up to people buying licenses and hardware in the last, say, 3 weeks would have at least been professional and respectful from a business standpoint.

And probably illegal. I'm sure at the very least they were gagged by Google, but beyond that giving people a "heads up" about a potential buyout involving a publicly traded company like google likely would violate a dozen SEC laws. There's nothing Sage LLC could have done, I imagine.

[panteragstk]

From GeekTonic

Since receiving word of Google’s acquisition of SageTV, a leading media PC company this past Saturday fear and speculation has been the norm for the existing SageTV user base. Saturday I reached out to SageTV and Google representatives to gather as much information as possible. Keep in mind the transaction very likely had just been finalized so it takes some time to sort through all of the details including sales of existing products, supporting existing users etc. etc.
Today I received some answers for many of my questions – most of these are focused on what happens next for SageTV users. We won’t be receiving any official information on Google’s plans with the future of SageTV + Google for now, although I plan to share my thoughts on that soon as well.
Note: In the responses below, “we” typically means “SageTV/Google” since they are now one and the same company.
Answers from Google/SageTV are in bold below:
EPG Data
If you already use SageTV and rely on it for your TV recording and viewing needs, the first thing you want to know is what happens to the Electronic Programming Guide (EPG) data that is used for seeing what shows are scheduled on your TV – it’s an essential part of your DVR.
SageTV’s EPG data will continue to remain active for at least one year.
Existing SageTV Keys & SageTV Beta Status
The most recent version of SageTV was in a public beta so I asked what happens to that beta?
The beta versions do not expire. SageTV/Google does not currently have plans relating to posting a final release of V7.1; the current release candidate is of 'release' quality based on SageTV’s prior standards.

Existing, Purchased SageTV Product Keys
Purchased keys from SageTV products will continue to be valid. There is no time limit on them.

SageTV Software as we know it – Is There a Future?
I asked the obvious question, Will the software & hardware we know as SageTV exist in any form post acquisition? The answer, as expected is “we cannot comment at this time.”
That isn’t as good as “yes”, but it’s better than a flat out no. I’m not surprised to get the no comment answer on that one for now. We’ll have to see what happens at Google Labs and/or GoogleTV – could be a while.

SageTV Forums & Downloads
I asked what would happen to the existing SageTV forums & downloads currently hosted by SageTV? Will users continue to have access to these resources important to the SageTV software?
Yes, the forums will remain open and we plan to make current version downloads available to current customers. Plans are to continue making the 3rd Party plug-in downloads available as well.
SageTV HD300 (Extender/Player) Warranty/Service
I asked if the warranty for those who recently purchased SageTV HD300’s will be honored.
Google will be honoring the 1 year warranty policy on the HD300.
Will HD300’s Be Available for Purchase?
Many SageTV users have been wanting to purchase another HD300, but the SageTV store has been closed since the acquisition. So I asked if they had plans to sell any of the existing HD300 stock or perhaps even sell new ones.
Unfortunately the answer here was “we can't comment at this time.”
Google Beta Testing?
I threw this one in hoping to get a “feel” for the SageTV/Google future: “Does Google need an awesome group of beta testers (aka SageTV beta group)? I many SageTV users would love to contribute.
Yes, Google will be interested in beta testers in the future. We will inform the community of any related opportunities.
Role for SageTV 3rd Party Developers?
I asked if there was any chance the existing group of 3rd party developers most of which worked on these projects for "fun" could contribute towards similar 3rd party add-ons with Google's future GoogleTV?
No comment related to Google TV. But we do want the developer community to remain alive and strong. They've been an integral part of SageTV's success and we value them greatly, as does Google.
Software-Only GoogleTV/SageTV Future?
I threw out this one as a long-shot: Does Google plan to provide any software-only installation of GoogleTV/SageTV in the future like SageTV allows for today?
The answer was as expected: “We can't comment at this time.”
GoogleTV DVR Capability?
Another long-shot question from me: Any hope for DVR capability in GoogleTV with this acquisition? That was one of SageTV's strengths over the competition.
The answer again was as expected: “We can't comment at this time.”
There you have it – existing SageTV will still have SageTV available to us along with the EPG data, downloads, 3rd party plug-ins etc at least for the next year. Forums will continue to be hosted and maintained as well. Beyond that though we just don’t know. I saw no indication or even hope of new licenses or hardware being available making it difficult if you need to upgrade your HTPC system with an additional TV for instance.
As far as what Google plans to do with SageTV I think there are some things we can read from the above. I get the feeling they really do plan on doing something with the SageTV assets directly with the next iteration of Google TV. Does that mean DVR capability, placeshifting of some kind or something else? We don’t know yet – I have my thoughts/educated guesses and will share it with you soon. I don’t think much of the tech media really understands this acquisition yet – but they will soon.
Thanks to both the SageTV team and Google for responding to these questions!

[Brent]

Now that Google owns SageTV, what's next for SageTV customers? Some answers from Google/SageTV:http://www.geektonic.com/2011/06/wha...mers-post.html

[ptzink]

Originally Posted by Brent

Now that Google owns SageTV, what's next for SageTV customers? Some answers from Google/SageTV:http://www.geektonic.com/2011/06/wha...mers-post.html

Thanks for digging this up Brent. It's good to have a few answers at least.

[Fountainhead]

Ok. Program guide data for a year, keys will still work, forums will remain open. All good news for keeping our existing setups going for some time. Excellent.

[Polypro]

I can live with 7.1.9 in perpetuity, if I have to. The biggest thing is EPG Data...which supposedly will continue for at least a year. After that, can someone direct us that don't know, how to get Schedules Direct working in Sage?

P

[Karride]

Kind of what I expected, things should work fine as-is for at least a year, but no comment of future plans. At least we know we've got awhile before we have to muck around with an EPG substuite.

I do truely feel sorry for those that bought this last week and now will not have an expansion path. IMO, Sage should offer refunds to people that purchased licences in the last 30 days.

[valnar]

Originally Posted by Polypro

I can live with 7.1.9 in perpetuity, if I have to. The biggest thing is EPG Data...which supposedly will continue for at least a year. After that, can someone direct us that don't know, how to get Schedules Direct working in Sage?

My guess is, with all the talent on this forum, someone will write up a script or app that automagically does it all for us. At least that is my hope, and we do have some time. There are a lot of different stations and broadcast mediums out there, so maybe it won't be quite that easy.

[Polypro]

Originally Posted by Brent

Not essential, but very important. If they did "turn off" the EPG data, you CAN still get EPG data via other sources - that's what GBPVR and others do today. It's just not as easy and it does cost a bit. I personally believe (hope) they will leave EPG data on for a while - possibly a long while. We'll just have to wait and see.

Big thread, just saw this. Brent, can you do a write up on how to get this working in Sage...when the plug gets pulled (a year goes by quick). I don't mind paying Schedules Direct...I just need to know how to make it work (the other solutions as well).

P

[Rob]

The only thing that still concerns me is the inablity for people to finish systems they are in the middle of setting up. I do not understand the downside for Google in allowing people with trial versions to purchase a key, nor do I see the downside of them allowing people with active licenses to purchase additional hardware (I don't see how this exposes them to any additional liability or support requirements).

[phareous]

Nowhere in the rather vague announcement did they say the company no longer exists. They could have bought the full company and thus SageTV, LLC would be a wholly owned subsidary of Google. Or they may have bought all of SageTV, LLC's assets and intelluctual property...in which case SageTV, LLC would still exist (but own nothing). Either way...the company probably still exists

Originally Posted by joematt

The company SageTV, LLC no longer exists. They cannot enter into any new contracts including selling you anything. The Google owns all of SageTV LLC's assets probably including Jeff so don't blame SageTV blame Google.

<speculation>I don't think SageTV had a choice but to sell to Google or go bankrupt.</speculation>

It is telling that Jeff did get what he got: forums still going and a promise to support existing users (Google has a contract to do) by support I don't mean anything new like firmware or software updates. It could have been just the announcement and nothing else.

[drewg]

Originally Posted by Bagal

Stephane's XMLTV Importer is a standalone app that you install, which is available from his website: http://www.lmgestion.net/@en-us/4/22/54/59/article.asp

Appears to require .net, which means linux users are screwed..

Drew

[sdsean]

its very hard for me to be optimistic about this. . .

1st off, Sage has always taken a pretty hard stance with DRM.
And since its small, that's been ok. . .All of us using the analog hole, or "recording" something through PlayOn, allowing us to playback dvd rips etc.

I can't imagine that a big company like google, even if they kept the product, would continue on that path. . .

And of course my other question is. . . what is my alternative?
BeyondTV was great back in the day.. . till HD crushed them, and they went a new direction.

There are open-source projects out there, but I'd rather have something I pay for as it always tends to lend itself to at least a little more polish. . .

Of course you can keep everything running I'm pretty sure, far into the future. . .but the key is going to be EPG data. Right now the only other options out there I think are xmltv?? I have had no success in getting that to work right. . .but other than that I think everything else would be fine. .

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by drewg

Appears to require .net, which means linux users are screwed..

Drew

You should be able to run one of these:

XMLTV Project Then you just need to feed this download to Sage. But the EPG Guide for Sage is good for the next year.

Gerry

[Slugger]

Originally Posted by drewg

Appears to require .net, which means linux users are screwed..

Drew

I'm working on it. Having been told today by Google that I have a year or so (before the EPG data plug is pulled), I've quickly gone back to enjoying my week of vacation (or what's left of it now).

In 72 hours I actually managed to get a decent start on it - but a long ways to go... anyway, it'll work on Linux - my test server is Linux and that's where I've been developing it.

Install plugin, feed it a Schedules Direct id/pwd, restart Sage server, forget about it. That's the goal, that's what I expect it to be. However, before I could release it, I'd need an exemption from Schedules Direct, which I've already applied for. Given that we have a year, that shouldn't be a problem now.

[asirota]

Originally Posted by wayner

And we all wish that we can buy a Ferrari for $10,000.

Sorry, but I have to call BS on this price. It is totally unrealistic to have a high powered PVR solution and only expect to pay the price of (at that time) a mid-sized hard drive.

The PVR offered by my cable company (you can buy STBs from the cable companies here in Canada) is $600 for a 500GB two-tuner system (a SA/Cisco 8642HD) that is a total POS compared to Sage.

Maybe expecting extenders for $100 is reasonable but certainly not a full system.

The problem is your customer is not willing to pay so much. That's why many get sweet subsidized deals from cable cos. I was competing at a different level, but my customers still saw what it did and said "$1000 is way too much."

They were right. Look at the AppleTV2 pricepoint. Yep $100. That's what people are willing to pay for the most part for this device. And the PVR part is a bonus. So while technically SageTV HTPCs are superior there is not yet a huge market outside of enthusiasts. And I wonder if there will ever be.