A restocking fee for a defective unit??

[rdefino]

I purchased a HD300 and it has a problem that I get static over the HDMI audio. After getting logs and doing all that support asked, they finally say it's a hardware problem. Which I new from the beginning.

Support issues me an RMA.

So I asked if I could just order a new one now since I have a tv sitting here that I cannot use. It would be faster if I ordered one that shipping the broken one back and then wait for them to ship me a replacement.

they said they would have to charge me a "Restocking fee" for the returned unit. I think that's crazy. I received it broken and just want to get a replacement quicker so I can use my new tv.

But they want a restocking fee for a shipped defective unit. I don't think thats right. I could see if I had it for a while working then it broke, but it was broken when I go it.

I've never had this happen before. Newegg, happauge all did cross shipments without a restocking fee. Happauge, did it for a hdpvr that was almost 2yrs old. Thanks is good support.

I just don't think it's right.

[rtrski]

That is unfortunate. But the policies are posted in their store. I guess until they get the unit back complete and can verify hardware error, a cross-ship costs restocking as if it's just being returned. You might ask nicely if they go ahead and charge the restock fee if they would reverse it once they receive and verify the unit as bad?

I have had to pay restocking fees elsewhere for defective hardware (with no cross-ship even). I won't say I was pleased about it either...but if the policy was posted and I purchased anyway then I didn't have much of a leg to stand on. Admittedly I didn't go back there to purchase in the future, but there's not many other outlets for Sage extenders....

Very sorry to hear of your hardware issues (sincerely - this post is not at all intended as 'snark' or fanboy defense of Sage, just an attempt at quiet reason and a little sympathy).

[rdefino]

I know it's their policy, but for a defective unit? that's the part I can't understand. I purchase and pay for a working unit. Get a broken one and have to pay a restocking fee.

So, they would be restocking the broken unit then.

I bought a number of harddrives from newegg. They all have tons of bad sectors. They paid for the shipping back. No restocking fee. and to top it off, it's not even their product, unlike the hd300. Which is a sage created product.

I guess I'm just venting. Had this unit for a week and half and can't even use my tv.

[stanger89]

Seems like when I had Seagate cross-ship me a hard drive it cost me someting (beyond shipping).

[reggie14]

rtrski-

Who charged you a restocking fee on a defective item? That sounds completely ridiculous. I'd get a refund through my insurance company before i would do that. I want to make sure i never buy anything from them. I think it's bad enough when resellers won't refund shipping costs, and I get pretty annoyed when they want me to pay return shipping costs.

I've definitely never paid a restocking fee for a return (of any sort). Newegg is happy to do what the OP described, and they'll give you a return shipping label if you ask for one. Viewsonic cross shipped but made me pay return shipping. Samsung sent out the replacement, and then I sent the defective unit in the same box.

I understand policies are policies, but an advantage of buying from small companies is that they're supposed to be less inclined to blindly follow corporate policies that don't make much sense in a particular situation.

The only potential problem for Sage that I see is that it's likely not free for them to charge a credit card and issue a refund. And I'm guessing they cant just put a hold on $150 on the card. So, cross shipping like this would probably cost them a few bucks in credit card fees. I don't feel much sympathy for them though. I feel pretty strongly that retailers- not consumers- ought to be the ones taking the risk that products won't work.

[rtrski]

Reggie:

It was an outfit called Monarch computers in Atlanta. Started out as a pretty good online retailer, but went downhill fast. (check out reseller ratings, although I think they're now out of business...this was several years ago and even credit card 'insurance' on purchases wasn't a common thing, although I do have it now).

And if you've "never paid any restocking fee for a return (of any sort)" then you're either lucky, have only been buying on the internet a short time, or a very squeaky wheel. Even Newegg's Standard return policy reserves the right for a restock fee. They may not always choose to implement it, but it is there in their written policies. I've not paid one to them that I know of, but I've been lucky and never returned anything defective to them either. And I always wonder how Victoria's Secret makes money with all the catalogs they send and how flexible they are with returns...my wife seems to use their ordering system as a test-fit revolving door on a weekly basis (which is not ALL bad... <wry grin>).

In any event, I still sympathise with the OP, and if I'm reading his original post right the implication is the restocking fee is ONLY for cross-shipping...not absolutely being invoked to return the faulty unit? So yes, it sounds like it may be a little less flexible than we'd like but it is in keeping with their posted policies. Sage has the HD300 manufactured to their specs, they don't build it themselves...do they similarly use a service of some sort to maintain inventory and do all shipping? In which case, their contract with their shipper may involve costs to them that they can't recur. I *still* agree with all posts and implications here that they *could* choose otherwise, but I also understand that a smaller company runs tighter margins of profitability as well, and given a vocal community once they change the rules for one it's open season for all.

Again, not trying to 'defend' Sage per se - just being open to both sides.

[rdefino]

The way I look at it. It's sage's name on the unit...it's their unit then. No matter who builds it. Also, this is being returned to sagetv themselves, not a supplier. So they could waive the restocking fees so I don't have to wait almost 2 weeks to get a replacement. Can't use the tv till then.

I just think they could be a little more lenient here. This is the 5th unit I've purchased. Not like a new customer.

I've dealt with many other companies like this, and they will always do a cross shipment just by holding my CC #.

I really wish Newegg sold these, much better to deal with.

[OneOfMany]

After reading the refund policy, I guess I have to agree with the OP on this one.

Most companies will (or reserve the right to) charge a restocking fee if a product is returned complete within a period of time IF the product is not desired.

Most companies RMA policy is that the end-user will pay shipping of the "defective" unit to the manufacturer, and receive a replacement (new or refurbished) at the discretion of the manufacturer if the product is deemed defective. They "may" offer a cross-shipment policy, and will put a hold on a CC to ensure they receive the "defective" unit in the time period allowed.

However, they reserve the right to charge a fee if a product tests OK to the end-user in order for them to get the product back (and at end-users shipping expense). This minimizes the amount of time a company spends testing "working" units that the end-user is unable to correctly setup.

[barney B.A.]

So. He has a choice to not pay extra. However he will just wait a little longer.
He will have to pay extra to get a replacement faster. Irritating, but not that unreasonable. When I take my new car in for warranty work, I don't get a free rental car while mine is being fixed. I could have if I was willing to pay for an extra warranty.

[rdefino]

So would you have taken your car home "broken" the day you bought it?

No. you would have had them handle it professionally, since they would be selling you a broken car..

[barney B.A.]

Originally Posted by rdefino

So would you have taken your car home "broken" the day you bought it?

No. Of course not. However cars usually break weeks or months after the sale. Or at least people don't normally notice engine problems until later and thats when you have to deal with warranty work.

[gplasky]

I just bought a remote from a vendor and I am not happy with the features. The only return they will accept and not charge a restocking fee for is an unopened one. Figure out how to get around that. Luckily the restock fee is only $3.00.

Gerry

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by reggie14

I feel pretty strongly that retailers- not consumers- ought to be the ones taking the risk that products won't work.

I guarantee that retailers do not eat the cost of defective products. They pass those costs on to consumers, either through restocking fees or by hiding those costs in their up-front pricing and shipping policies. Either way, it's the consumers who pay, individually or collectively. So basically what the OP is saying is that Sage should charge us all a few cents more on working units so he can have free cross-shipping on his defective unit.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by rdefino

I bought a number of harddrives from newegg. They all have tons of bad sectors. They paid for the shipping back. No restocking fee. and to top it off, it's not even their product, unlike the hd300. Which is a sage created product.

Every harddrive I've shipped back to Newegg I've had to pay the shipping. I want your deal. How do I get it? Same for the manufacturers when I've RMA'd a drive to them as well.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by rtrski

And if you've "never paid any restocking fee for a return (of any sort)" then you're either lucky, have only been buying on the internet a short time, or a very squeaky wheel. Even Newegg's Standard return policy reserves the right for a restock fee. They may not always choose to implement it, but it is there in their written policies.

I buy tons of stuff online, but I've only returned things that weren't defective a handful of times. I really don't have a problem with paying a restocking fee for returns of non-defective merchandise, I've just never been asked to. Sometimes they were clothes that didn't fit, from a major retailer, which often let you do returns without fees. Sometimes its been returns to Newegg because the product didn't work with my system. That's sort of a pseudo-defective item.

Your comment about Newegg is part of the reason I don't like to pay too close of attention to retailers' official terms. Often they're much harsher than what they'll do in practice. Newegg is much friendlier than their current terms suggest.

Now I realize you can't hold a company to anything beyond what their terms say, but because officials terms are usually so draconian, I think its perfectly fair to be upset if a company doesn't provide good service even if they do exactly what their terms say. It's sort of like terms of use on most websites, or EULAs. You basically sign your life away. But if Facebook actually does come back to me and asks for my first-born son, I'll be pretty upset. I just use Facebook (and Gmail, and Newegg, etc.) because I trust them to not screw me over too much when push comes to shove.

Originally Posted by rtrski

Sage has the HD300 manufactured to their specs, they don't build it themselves...

This idea has come up before. I don't really understand why people think that because Sage doesn't manufacture the extenders they're not responsible for their quality. Sage is the only source of the extenders. They're Sage-branded, and they only work with Sage products. Sage is the sole source of support. For all intents and purposes, they're Sage products- Sage just happened to out-source manufacturing. Would you say Apple isn't responsible for the quality of the iPhone because Foxconn actually makes it?

Originally Posted by rtrski

do they similarly use a service of some sort to maintain inventory and do all shipping? In which case, their contract with their shipper may involve costs to them that they can't recur. I *still* agree with all posts and implications here that they *could* choose otherwise, but I also understand that a smaller company runs tighter margins of profitability as well, and given a vocal community once they change the rules for one it's open season for all.

Well, based on shipping to/from addresses, I'm quite sure Sage handles shipping orders and returns themselves. But, I'm also sure Sage has to pay every time they do a credit card transaction. So you're right, I'm sure its not free for Sage to cross-ship, since I would think they'd want to make sure there's $150 available on the card before they cross ship a replacement. But, I think the credit card processing fees ought to be low enough that they should suck it up. It's always a pain to deal with defective items, and quite frankly, with the amount of troubleshooting Sage has its users do, I think ponying up the couple dollars (and maybe its not even that) to let someone cross-ship is the least they can do.

Originally Posted by GKusnick

I guarantee that retailers do not eat the cost of defective products. They pass those costs on to consumers, either through restocking fees or by hiding those costs in their up-front pricing and shipping policies. Either way, it's the consumers who pay, individually or collectively. So basically what the OP is saying is that Sage should charge us all a few cents more on working units so he can have free cross-shipping on his defective unit.

Sure. To some extent. Of course, prices aren't set like that though. It's not like Sage would have decided to make the HD300 cost $150.03 to pay for the extra costs involved with cross-shipping defective units.

In any event, I don't think just because a manufacturer or retailer passes costs on to consumers that means they're not accepting risks for defective items. The built-in costs deal with expected problems- not unexpected problems, like getting a big batch of bad units. I still think customers are much better off by having the retailer take the risk, even if that means potentially paying a few cents more on average. If a retailer has problems with product quality, that would either be reflected in their prices compared to more responsible retailers, otherwise they'd simply go out of business dealing with the returns.

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

Every harddrive I've shipped back to Newegg I've had to pay the shipping. I want your deal. How do I get it? Same for the manufacturers when I've RMA'd a drive to them as well.

Have you ever tried simply asking Newegg for a return shipping label? That's worked for me every time. I've never even had to press the issue- they've happily complied every time.

[rtrski]

Originally Posted by reggie14

This idea has come up before. I don't really understand why people think that because Sage doesn't manufacture the extenders they're not responsible for their quality. Sage is the only source of the extenders. They're Sage-branded, and they only work with Sage products. Sage is the sole source of support. For all intents and purposes, they're Sage products- Sage just happened to out-source manufacturing. Would you say Apple isn't responsible for the quality of the iPhone because Foxconn actually makes it?

Interesting interpretation of my point. I never said they weren't responsible. I merely lead in with if it is built on spec, perhaps they also don't directly handle inventory/shipping, which might explain part of the policy issue.

If shipping addresses don't tell that story, fine. The speculation was wrong. Nowhere did I imply they would not be responsible. <shrug>

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Have you ever tried simply asking Newegg for a return shipping label? That's worked for me every time. I've never even had to press the issue- they've happily complied every time.

If you mean by phone - no. Email - Yes. They pointed me to the link to get the shipping label. At a reduced cost to what I would get from UPS if I went in myself and asked for it but I still had to pay.

[technazz]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

If you mean by phone - no. Email - Yes. They pointed me to the link to get the shipping label. At a reduced cost to what I would get from UPS if I went in myself and asked for it but I still had to pay.

Same here. I just rma'd a hard drive and I had to pay. This is standard procedure with most distributors and retailers.

I used to work for a major electronics manufacturer and it seemed over 60% of the product we received back off rma passed functional tests.

As a paying customer you would expect to have a working product unfortunately from time to time a defective unit gets out there and the product should be swapped asap. But cross shipping is very rare and typically you have to wait.

Technazz

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by rtrski

Interesting interpretation of my point. I never said they weren't responsible. I merely lead in with if it is built on spec, perhaps they also don't directly handle inventory/shipping, which might explain part of the policy issue.

Sorry. I read more into your previous response than i should have. Completely my bad. My apologies.

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

If you mean by phone - no. Email - Yes. They pointed me to the link to get the shipping label. At a reduced cost to what I would get from UPS if I went in myself and asked for it but I still had to pay.

I always deal with them over the phone. I'm not sure if that matters. It's also possible that they've become more strict with their policies recently. It's been 6-9 months since I've returned anything. Basically on the phone i say I've done a lot of business with them over the years, and they've always paid return shipping on defective items, and they've always given me a return shipping label for free. Its sort of a self-fulfilling prophesy.

[Narflex]

To clarify things here; we DO NOT charge a restocking fee on defective items. You get an RMA number from us; ship it to us and then we ship you back one that works. (customer pays shipping to us; we pay the return shipping)

However, the OP wants us to send him a new one before we get his unit back. The way we handle that is by doing an actual return on the purchased item (which carries a restocking fee) and then you can purchase a new one at the same time. We incur additional costs when things are done this way which is why it would have a restocking fee.