HD300 - Some nubie questions

[markus46]

Hello all,

I am new to video and audio streaming. I run a DLNA server (Mezzmo) on my Win7 Pro PC and use an Oppo BDP83 as the client. I am looking at alternatives as the Oppo is not the best client. So on to my questions about the HD300...

1. Can the HD300 connect to a DLNA server like Mezzmo? I don't want to connect to the PC via SMB as all I will see is a list of files. A DLNA server offers nice stuff such as grouping and filtering of content by various criteria as well as playlists etc... Or do I need SageTV Server software to achieve this?

2. The HD300 offers video passthrough correct? i.e. output video though its HDMI connection at the resolution and frame rate of the source file. I want the REON chip in the AVR to do the scaling & deinterlacing.

3. What bit depth and resolution of audio is supported by the HD300's SPDIF and HDMI connections? I have some 24/192 FLAC files that I would like to play out of the SPDIF connection into a separate DAC in a dedicated stereo
system. I'm thinking I might use one HD300 for audio in the stereo system and one for video & multi-channel audio in the HT system.

4. When using the HD300 in an audio-only environment (no display), has any thought been given to developing an iPhone/iPad type application to control the HD300?

Thanks in advance!
Mark

[crusing]

See my replies below your questions;

Originally Posted by markus46

Hello all,

I am new to video and audio streaming. I run a DLNA server (Mezzmo) on my Win7 Pro PC and use an Oppo BDP83 as the client. I am looking at alternatives as the Oppo is not the best client. So on to my questions about the HD300...

1. Can the HD300 connect to a DLNA server like Mezzmo? I don't want to connect to the PC via SMB as all I will see is a list of files. A DLNA server offers nice stuff such as grouping and filtering of content by various criteria as well as playlists etc... Or do I need SageTV Server software to achieve this?

I haven't tested Mezzmo, but several other DNLA servers have worked fine. I got to say the HD300 is amazing when you have a SageTV server to connect to. In standalone mode the codec support is the best I have seen, but the user interface can be slow and it is a little blah in appearance.

2. The HD300 offers video passthrough correct? i.e. output video though its HDMI connection at the resolution and frame rate of the source file. I want the REON chip in the AVR to do the scaling & deinterlacing.

Yes, it will support pretty much anything your TV will. Turn on the native output mode and it will match the source material as long as your TV will support it.

3. What bit depth and resolution of audio is supported by the HD300's SPDIF and HDMI connections? I have some 24/192 FLAC files that I would like to play out of the SPDIF connection into a separate DAC in a dedicated stereo
system. I'm thinking I might use one HD300 for audio in the stereo system and one for video & multi-channel audio in the HT system.

Not sure what the limit is here. I just tested with 24/96; which is the best I have for FLAC files and it played beautifully. If you can post a test file somewhere I can test it for you.

4. When using the HD300 in an audio-only environment (no display), has any thought been given to developing an iPhone/iPad type application to control the HD300?

Have not checked into this.

Thanks in advance!
Mark

[markus46]

Thanks crusing for your response.

I saw that the HD300 can be a client for UPnP media servers. I now think UPnP = DLNA and what you've said seems to confirm that.

Thanks also for confirmation on native output mode and high res FLAC files.
Is your audio connection from the HD300 via digital SPDIF or HDMI?

Cheers!
Mark

[crusing]

Yes, I think DNLA is mostly a marketing term, at best a compatability standard.

Using HDMI out to a Onkyo TX-SR607 with HDMI out to TV.

[oldfolkie]

Hey Mark, I wonder if the HD300 really does what you're looking for. The reason I'm wondering is because of your question about an audio-only environment.

I have an HD200 and I love it for video, but for audio--not so much. It does connect to DNLA/UPnP servers, but you have to control playback from the HD200, not the server. In other words, you can't use your server software to control the audio playback on the HD200, you have to have your TV on and use the HD200's interface.

Now, if the HD300 is different and can be used strictly as a UPnP renderer, I'd love to hear about it. This would allow for the use of a separate control app on things like the iPod. It would also motivate me to upgrade to the HD300. In the meantime, I've been seriously thinking about getting a SqueezeBox Duet for music and using Sage strictly for video.

Oldfolkie

[crusing]

I don't know about the HD200 but the HD300 can have media pushed out to it via SageTV Web. This is not a very functional way of doing things, but I guess it means it can be done. This is not something I have looked into, but I figure an app could be written to take advantage of that if one doesn't exist already.

[oldfolkie]

Hi crusing,

I just did some tests and, yes, the SageTV Web Interface can push media (music and video) to my HD200. However, I can only get it to work when the HD200 is in extender mode, not stand-alone. Does the HD300 work with the Web Interface when it's in stand-alone mode?

I have an older version of the Web Interface (I'm still on Sage 6.6) and, for music, the version I have can do tag searches (album, artist, etc.), but it has no file/directory browse capabilities that I can see. Does the more recent version have anything like that?

I did find that once I started an album track from the Web Interface, the HD200 would continue playing the rest of the album, which is nice, but there didn't appear to be a way of queuing up additional tracks.

But, anyway, you're right--there does appear to be a lot of possibilities there. The Web Interface really is an amazing app!

Oldfolkie

[crusing]

It does seem to only work in Extender mode.

There is no browse in the Web ui, only search. I wonder if it would be hard for the developer to add playlist support?

I have been looking for my first SageTV programming project. I am kind of tempted to try something like the Mobile Web UI plugin, but focused on Music. It might be a nice option for people who want a headless device for music.

[oldfolkie]

That'd be terrific! To me, the biggest lack in Sage is not having the capability to control the extenders for music playback from either the Sage Server or an external control app (although the Web Interface comes close). Good luck if you decide to give it a try!

Oldfolkie

[markus46]

Hi Oldfolkie,

I have ordered a HD300 and it's on its way. I'll do my own testing and let you know if it can operate as a DLNA Renderer in standalone mode. It should. After all Sage list UPnP as a source in their list of supported sources.
"Media sources supported: Online Video, external USB Mass Storage Devices (FAT, NTFS, EXT2/3, HFS format), NAS or Mac/PC over SMB/CIFS, UPnP, SageTV Media Center". What could possibly go wrong?

I do understand that (in standalone mode) I would need to have a TV attached to play audio-only files. Hence my question about controlling the device via an iPhone/iPad type application. Other Media Players (xtreemer for example) have this capability. For me - that would be icing on the cake.

Thanks!
Mark

[oldfolkie]

Mark,

You probably won't have any problem accessing your UPnP servers from the HD300 in standalone mode. I can access mine from the HD200 (in my case, foobar2000 and TVersity). The problem is that it's very slow to access them if you have a large library and functionality is extremely limited. For example, I can browse foobar2000's folders, albums, etc., but I can only select and play one track at a time (not a whole album). Also album tracks are listed in alphabetical order, not track sequence.

If you don't have SageTV (and therefore can't put the HD300 into extender mode), then I highly recommend that you import your music library into the HD300. Importing doesn't copy the files, only the metadata about the files--it sets up a database directory of your library within the HD300 (like when you set up your libraries within your UPnP servers). This way you get all kinds of functionality--you get numerous browse and search capabilities, you can play whole albums or even whole directories, can add selections to the queue, create playlists, display album art, etc., etc. Plus, it's a whole lot faster.

Anyway, good luck when you get the HD300. Let us know how it goes.

Oldfolkie

[markus46]

OK - I finally received my HD300 yesterday and here's what I've found...

1. It works very well with Mezzmo UPnP Server with one exception. DVD rips (i.e. a directory with VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS directories) are not recognised as a DVD. I think this may be a Mezzmo issue.

Q. If I has a UPnP NAS drive on my network with DVD rips on it, would you expect the HD300 to recognise these as DVD's?

2. It handles my 24/96 flac files just fine.

3. Native Output Mode is not really video passthrough as I had hoped. It seems to scale up "non-standard" video resolutions to the nearest resolution supported by the HD300 and the display device. By non-standard I mean any resolution which is not one of the 1/2 dozen or so resolutions listed in the Resolution Selection screen. So, for example, a 640x356 .avi file will be scaled and output at 576p (PAL) or I guess 480p (NTSC), not 640x356 as I had expected.

I'll end with what I'm sure is a dumb question. How on earth do I import the meta data of the media on my UPnP device into the HD300? It is telling me I can't access Photos/Music/Video because I haven't set up my Import Directories yet. How do I specify the directories on my UPnP server that I wish to import?

Thanks all!
Mark

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by markus46

3. Native Output Mode is not really video passthrough as I had hoped. It seems to scale up "non-standard" video resolutions to the nearest resolution supported by the HD300 and the display device. By non-standard I mean any resolution which is not one of the 1/2 dozen or so resolutions listed in the Resolution Selection screen. So, for example, a 640x356 .avi file will be scaled and output at 576p (PAL) or I guess 480p (NTSC), not 640x356 as I had expected.

And that should be the expected result. Why would the HD300 try to display something at a non-standard resolution when the display device might not be able to display said resolution? 640x356 doesn't match ANY standard resolution so the only acceptable solution would be to scale it to the nearest known resolution. If it were to try and send 640x356 to the TV/monitor the result would probably be a black screen or a message that says "unsupported resolution". Which would rather have happen?

[wildgoose]

In my experience, when the output resolution is not available (480i, my TV does not support it), it will scale it up to the maximum resolution, 1080i in my case. This is not desirable. I'd prefer 480p and let my receiver do the upscaling.

If you are using SageTV MC, you can find plugins that allow you to change the output resolution of the video dynamically. See this thread:

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52043

For music, I highly recommend a Squeezebox. Retail is not cheap, but you can probably find them on craigslist for around $100-$150. It's well worth the money if you are into playing music, whether it's your own collection or online music services.

And finally, if you have a HD Tuner, I highly recommend you try out the SageTV media center software. Being able to record live-TV and watch them at your convenience is where the HD300 really shines.

[oldfolkie]

Hi Mark,

Yes, the HD300 can recognize and play DVD rips, once it has it's own metadata library. From the Folders menu, browse your local network (including your NAS drive), not your Mezzmo UPnP Server software. When you browse your Mezzmo UPnP Server, you're just browsing Mezzmo's metadata, not the actual files themselves. Although the HD300 can play most of these files, its capabilities are are very limited, based on whatever information it gets from Mezzmo. The HD300 can't import Mezzmo's metadata, it needs to generate its own.

So browse your local network to which ever shared drives and directories that contain your media. Any folder (at any level) on any shared drive can be Imported. As you're browsing, just select a folder, hit the INFO button on the remote, and select "Add as a new Import Directory". The HD300 will ask what media types you want to import. Make your selection and the HD300 will start generating its metadata library (this could take a while if you have a large media library--you might want to start with a limited number of folders, including some DVD rips, just to see what you get--you can always regenerate later).

Once the HD300 has its metadata, you would use the Music/Photos/Videos selection, not Folders, to play your media. Everything will be a lot faster and a lot more functional.

Let me know how it goes...

Oldfolkie

[markus46]

What I would like to happen is for the HD300 to passthrough the video unaltered to my AVR where the superior scaler/deinterlacer is located. The AVR would then be responsible for scaling to a resolution supported by the display.

I do understand that many will connect a display direct to the HD300 and it's current handling of non-standard resolutions is therefore desirable.

Now I could well be mistaken in assuming the AVR could handle a "non-standard" resolution. In fact the more I think about it, the more I think perhaps you can't just throw any old resolution at it. Sadly I don't have a lot of time to test it.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

And that should be the expected result. Why would the HD300 try to display something at a non-standard resolution when the display device might not be able to display said resolution? 640x356 doesn't match ANY standard resolution so the only acceptable solution would be to scale it to the nearest known resolution. If it were to try and send 640x356 to the TV/monitor the result would probably be a black screen or a message that says "unsupported resolution". Which would rather have happen?

[markus46]

You are correct wildgoose. When the output resolution is not available, the HD300 seems to be scaling to the maximum resolution as ticked in the Resolution Selection screen - not the next highest as I said.

I am testing with the SageTV Server as well so thanks heaps for the link; I'll check it out!

Regards

Originally Posted by wildgoose

In my experience, when the output resolution is not available (480i, my TV does not support it), it will scale it up to the maximum resolution, 1080i in my case. This is not desirable. I'd prefer 480p and let my receiver do the upscaling.

If you are using SageTV MC, you can find plugins that allow you to change the output resolution of the video dynamically. See this thread:

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52043

For music, I highly recommend a Squeezebox. Retail is not cheap, but you can probably find them on craigslist for around $100-$150. It's well worth the money if you are into playing music, whether it's your own collection or online music services.

And finally, if you have a HD Tuner, I highly recommend you try out the SageTV media center software. Being able to record live-TV and watch them at your convenience is where the HD300 really shines.

[Taddeusz]

Yea, I don't believe you can throw just any old resolution at something and expect an output. Particularly consumer grade equipment. Plus, those odd resolutions are only encountered in the computer world. TV is always a specific set of resolutions (i.e. in the US 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p). There is no in between so if a decoder/scaler encounters video with a resolution that doesn't fit it will need to upscale it to the next level.

Certainly it's ideal to output the exact native resolution but then maybe you should stick to the known TV resolutions rather than scaling it down. When I transcode my DVD's I keep the exact anamorphic resolution of the source (cropped or not). That way there is no scaling involved if I were to ever want to do native output. As it stands my TV is too slow to respond so native output becomes more of an annoyance than a value.

[markus46]

Thanks heaps for the information Oldfolkie. When I saw the Import Directories on the SageTV v7 software I figured you might only be able to import from "real" folders, not the virtual folders as presented by Mezzmo.

I had no idea to add a folder to the Import Folders list you pressed the "INFO" button on the remote. Mezzmo has a raw "Folder" view so I'll try it now I know the trick.

It's the virtual folder concept of a software UPnP server like Mezzmo that is so appealing. I can create virtual folders based on any piece of meta data I want. For example, I have defined three folders "High Res", "Med Res" and "Low Res" based on the number of vertical pixels of the video file.

So I understand I could:
1. Share my media directory and import meta data into the HD300.
2. Use Mezzmo and be restricted to browsing Mezzmo's folders.
3. Use SageTV server software with the HD300 in extender mode

I don't have or need PC TV Tuner cards so I initially dismissed the SageTV server option. However I tested it last night and I can play my DVD rips which Mezzmo can't - and the MyMovies plugin looks very interesting.

Lot's of choices to explore!

Regards

Originally Posted by oldfolkie

Hi Mark,

Yes, the HD300 can recognize and play DVD rips, once it has it's own metadata library. From the Folders menu, browse your local network (including your NAS drive), not your Mezzmo UPnP Server software. When you browse your Mezzmo UPnP Server, you're just browsing Mezzmo's metadata, not the actual files themselves. Although the HD300 can play most of these files, its capabilities are are very limited, based on whatever information it gets from Mezzmo. The HD300 can't import Mezzmo's metadata, it needs to generate its own.

So browse your local network to which ever shared drives and directories that contain your media. Any folder (at any level) on any shared drive can be Imported. As you're browsing, just select a folder, hit the INFO button on the remote, and select "Add as a new Import Directory". The HD300 will ask what media types you want to import. Make your selection and the HD300 will start generating its metadata library (this could take a while if you have a large media library--you might want to start with a limited number of folders, including some DVD rips, just to see what you get--you can always regenerate later).

Once the HD300 has its metadata, you would use the Music/Photos/Videos selection, not Folders, to play your media. Everything will be a lot faster and a lot more functional.

Let me know how it goes...

Oldfolkie

[markus46]

I am very new to this whole media streaming business and I suppose I am showing my ignorance

I figured the HD300 can handle input of "non-standard" / computer-world video resolutions so why not my AVR? Tres embarrasing

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

Yea, I don't believe you can throw just any old resolution at something and expect an output. Particularly consumer grade equipment. Plus, those odd resolutions are only encountered in the computer world. TV is always a specific set of resolutions (i.e. in the US 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p). There is no in between so if a decoder/scaler encounters video with a resolution that doesn't fit it will need to upscale it to the next level.

Certainly it's ideal to output the exact native resolution but then maybe you should stick to the known TV resolutions rather than scaling it down. When I transcode my DVD's I keep the exact anamorphic resolution of the source (cropped or not). That way there is no scaling involved if I were to ever want to do native output. As it stands my TV is too slow to respond so native output becomes more of an annoyance than a value.