Test PC used by developers?

[broderp]

Here comes the question I've never seen answered on the forum (Not directly anyways ).

Does anyone know what the PC configuration the guys/ women of SageTV use to test and run SageTV?

I know what the min specs are, but I want to make a new (see my sig for my now outdated system still in use) dedicated PC just for SageTV, but don't want to go overkill on parts. Sometimes minimum specs don't cover what the average user will need either. I figure if its good for the developers, it would make a nice one for me as well.

I'm looking at adding a few HD tuners and hook up to my TV via HDMI

*i3, i5 or i7, Core Duo, Quad CPU?
*Windows 7 (will need this)
*ram?
*Best video card?
*Best all around codecs for playback (less cpu usgae/ pic quality)

I know this is a hated question, but any direction would be greatly appreciated. I'm also open to any 'out of the box' PC's (DELL model X or ACER model X etc.) if they are acceptable.

Thank you

[ybrew]

This could be a very complicated topic. Only thing I'll say is 3 years ago when I put together my last SageTV Server, I looked at off the shelf systems. I've been building computers for years and didn't really know if I wanted to mess with another build.

I really wanted to buy a Dell, but in the end I couldn't find one with enough PCI slots to handle the number of tuners I was planning to use.

Obviously that's not an issue anymore. I imagine most folks could get by using JUST external tuners. I do still have a couple hauppauge pvr500 cards for some directv set-top boxes, but if I was putting together a new box, I'd consider a Dell. I'd compare the cost of components vs a similarly configured Dell (including OS cost) and decide based on cost.

[bits]

From recent observations I recommend going 64bit and at least 4GB of the fastest DRAM your motherboard will support. SMM, Ortus ect...tend to utilize a significant amount of DRAM and if you are going to use your Sage box for other DRAM intensive stuff then more DRAM is better than less.

[Brent]

I think this might be the test PC the devs use

Originally Posted by bits

From recent observations I recommend going 64bit and at least 4GB of the fastest DRAM your motherboard will support. SMM, Ortus ect...tend to utilize a significant amount of DRAM and if you are going to use your Sage box for other DRAM intensive stuff then more DRAM is better than less.

I understand that 64bit recommend although I'm not sure you REALLY need that much memory. The one reason you wouldn't want to go 64bit is that there is no firewire driver for 64bit. Not a big deal if you never plan to use firewire channel changing or firewire tuning - but something to consider if you might.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by bits

From recent observations I recommend going 64bit and at least 4GB of the fastest DRAM your motherboard will support. SMM, Ortus ect...tend to utilize a significant amount of DRAM and if you are going to use your Sage box for other DRAM intensive stuff then more DRAM is better than less.

Sage is a 32bit application (as well as java) and can't access any more than 2GB. 3GB if it is large address aware. So unless you're running multiple applicaitons on that server any more than 4GB of RAM is overkill for Sage. 32bit applications can only address 32 bit address room.

Gerry

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by Brent

I think this might be the test PC the devs use

No, Brent, that was the prototype HD-PVR. Real-time HD encoding required quite a bit of cpu power before a special chip was used instead. The unit required a lot of cooling, was very dependent on receiving a clean HD signal, and was brought down by stray EM field or IR interference. And, as you can see in the photo, several operators were required to get the encoding process started. Physical space requirements have been reduced, the number of attendants has been reduced, and stability has been greatly improved since that first unit.

- Andy

[QueOnda]

I thought it was going to be the AppleTV 1080P 3D capable.

[broderp]

Originally Posted by ybrew

This could be a very complicated topic. Only thing I'll say is 3 years ago when I put together my last SageTV Server, I looked at off the shelf systems. I've been building computers for years and didn't really know if I wanted to mess with another build.

I really wanted to buy a Dell, but in the end I couldn't find one with enough PCI slots to handle the number of tuners I was planning to use.

Obviously that's not an issue anymore. I imagine most folks could get by using JUST external tuners. I do still have a couple hauppauge pvr500 cards for some directv set-top boxes, but if I was putting together a new box, I'd consider a Dell. I'd compare the cost of components vs a similarly configured Dell (including OS cost) and decide based on cost.

Use to be I could make a PC cheaper and better than I could buy, and without all the bloat ware I didn't want. Not so any more.

I must admit, my current rig is perfectly fine with the 3 tuners, so I really don't to waste cash on anything excessive. But I also am not recording HD or have any HD tuners, internal or external. Looks aren't important, as its behind the TV/ HT anyways.

[broderp]

Originally Posted by gplasky

Sage is a 32bit application (as well as java) and can't access any more than 2GB. 3GB if it is large address aware. So unless you're running multiple applicaitons on that server any more than 4GB of RAM is overkill for Sage. 32bit applications can only address 32 bit address room.

Gerry

Very good point, and I actually knew that, but somehow figured a 64bit OS would speed things up a bit. Perhaps I need to rethink this.

I may still go 64bit, in case SageTV ever released a 64 bit version with improved performance. If I make a PC, then I can get he 64 bit OS for the same price as the 32.

I was considering:

i5 CPU (or Quad core)
4GB ram (matched to MB bus speed)
Windows 7 64 (maybe 32 if you convince me its not worth it or will have issues)

My biggest concerns are Video card & compatibility with HDMI and all the cool stuf SageTV has (overlay, tranparancey, hardware acceleraction etc..) I just am not up to speed as to what to really look for in a Video card anymore. I also would like to match this with compatinble codecs for optimal video. (I currently use 'default' sageTV or Windows Codecs for video and the MB for audio.)

Thanks for the suggestion and food for thought.! (even though it was a bit over my head)

[bits]

Originally Posted by gplasky

Sage is a 32bit application (as well as java) and can't access any more than 2GB. 3GB if it is large address aware. So unless you're running multiple applicaitons on that server any more than 4GB of RAM is overkill for Sage. 32bit applications can only address 32 bit address room.

Gerry

My understanding is that a 32bit system can not utilize more than 3GB period, is that correct? My point is that Sage, when using plugins such as Ortus, SMM ect. will easily use up to 1+GB of DRAM. I use my system for Sage and for other things like MM, or editing digital pics and so on. When my system is used in this fashion, which I did mention in my first post, a lot of DRAM is utilized and it can dramatically slow the system (PC) down. 64bit will allow your overall system to utilize a great deal more DRAM and therefore your system will not be throttled back due to a lack of ability to utilize all available DRAM.

I agree that if all you are going to use the PC for is for STV and nothing else that is DRAM intensive then 32bit and 3GB of DRAM should easily do the trick.

MM does not usually consume a large chunk of DRAM except when doing a media library refresh. In the one instance that I did this is grabbed 1+GB of DRAM.

I have another PC that is a 2.7 Quad that is 64bit with 6GB of DRAM it runs circles around the PC detailed in my signature, especially so when doing DRAM intensive stuff.

[sleonard]

2^32=4294967296 (4GB). A 32 bit Windows system allocates 4GB of virtual address space to each application, 2GB of kernal space and 2 GB of application space. The caveat is that all applications share the same 2GB of kernal memory.

If in System Properties you see Installed RAM: 4GB (3.x GB usable) it means that onboard video has been assigned some of the RAM before the OS got a shot at it.

Even if you don't use onboard video the motherboard hardware will use up some of the RAM limiting the OS to ~3.5 GB.

Also, many chipsets have a limitation of 4-8GB so even 64-bit Windows won't help.

If not limited by the chipset even 32-bit Windows can utilize more than 4GB (up to 64GB) of physical RAM with /PAE enabled but it could make things worse if you don't know what you're doing.

S

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by sleonard

If not limited by the chipset even 32-bit Windows can utilize more than 4GB (up to 64GB) of physical RAM with /PAE enabled but it could make things worse if you don't know what you're doing.

S

Doesn't enabling PAE in a non-server edition of Windows require compiling a custom kernel? I seem to remember reading where a software dev did this with XP Pro...

[sleonard]

It requires a custom kernal but I think it is included in XP for driver developers so they can emulate a 64-bit system during testing. I know it was included with 2000 Pro. In any case /PAE is not really for any systems sage might find itself on.

S

[gplasky]

Regardless of the memory you enable a 32 bit application can only address the 32 bit of address space which is approx. 4GB. total. The above mentioned caveats apply. As far as plugins for Sage. Unless they are seperate applications running outside of Sage most plugins are limited to the jvm Sage uses which again is 32 bit.

Gerry