Confused about tuners...

[Biggen]

Hello,

I am wanting to stream to two TV's in my home from my main computer which will be using Sage TV Media Center. I know I will also need two Sage TV HD Theater 300's.

Ok, so I know I need those three parts in order to stream to two televisions. Here is where things get blurry. I am wanting to KEEP basic cable in my home. I am canceling HDTV, Digital Cable, and my DVR from my cable company but the boss (girlfriend) can't miss anything on the E! Channel so I have to keep basic cable.

So I am going to have basic cable and OTA programming (Two coxial feeds)running to the computer that will have Sage TV Media Center installed. My question is what kind of and how many tuners do I need to pull this off? At most, I can see three things happening at once: TV 1 watching one program (OTA or cable or recorded show), TV 2 also watching one program (OTA or cable or recorded show), and then finally my actually Media Center recording something I had previously setup before on a totally different channel than TV 1 or TV2.

Is this possible to do? To have the main computer (media center) feeding these others TV's while also recording something?

I was looking at Tuners on Newegg and I see Hauppage makes a dual tuner, but "dual" wouldn't be enough I don't think. Sounds like I would need more than that..

[barney B.A.]

The Hauppauge HVR-2250 is a dual tuner card which would allow you to record 2 shows simultaneously. You could record 2 shows while watching other pre-recorded shows, or watch 2 live shows at the same time. If you need more than that you could add more tuners.

[carlgar]

Since you are keeping basic cable, it is unlikely that you will need OTA. Cable should provide all of the OTA channels in clear QAM. The advantage of using cable only is that you only have one coax to deal with. Having 2 coaxes would complicate things. I don't think that there is any tuner that can handle two coaxes.

As far as how many tuners you need, it depends on how many channels you need to record at the same time. You can forget about when you want to view them. Chances are that most of y our viewing will be of already recorded shows. I would recommend you start with something like the Hauppauge 2250, which I just added to my system. It lets you record 2 channels at once and the channel can be analog or clear QAM. If you find you need more tuners you can always add them later. I hope you realize that you basic cable you will probably be getting the E channel in analog form which is only SD.

[KeithAbbott]

I use a SiliconDust HDHomeRun Dual Digital TV Tuner for OTA, and the Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 Dual TV Tuner board for analog and Clear QAM cable. The combination would give you the capability to record/view four HD channels simultaneously, or two analog and two HD channels simultaneously.

[bcjenkins]

I currently have 5 TVs running in the house, all with extenders. In the server, I have 3 dual tuner cards and one usb tuner. Due to the new fall tv show lineup, I am recording 4 to 5 shows simultaneously most nights. I have ordered another card to add a 4th tuner which will be an OTA HD tuner and have a spare SD tuner which I will likely hook my VCR up to. I'll eventually get around to digitizing all the VHS tapes we have.

The moral of the story - you may have more simultaneous recording desires than you do TVs. That's what makes SageTV so powerful.

B

[Biggen]

Originally Posted by carlgar

Since you are keeping basic cable, it is unlikely that you will need OTA. Cable should provide all of the OTA channels in clear QAM. The advantage of using cable only is that you only have one coax to deal with. Having 2 coaxes would complicate things. I don't think that there is any tuner that can handle two coaxes.

As far as how many tuners you need, it depends on how many channels you need to record at the same time. You can forget about when you want to view them. Chances are that most of y our viewing will be of already recorded shows. I would recommend you start with something like the Hauppauge 2250, which I just added to my system. It lets you record 2 channels at once and the channel can be analog or clear QAM. If you find you need more tuners you can always add them later. I hope you realize that you basic cable you will probably be getting the E channel in analog form which is only SD.

So you think I should not go OTA at all since I am keeping basic cable? What about my local programming that is broadcast in HD? I won't be able to get ANY HD channels if I don't do OTA, correct?

[KeithAbbott]

Originally Posted by Biggen

So you think I should not go OTA at all since I am keeping basic cable? What about my local programming that is broadcast in HD? I won't be able to get ANY HD channels if I don't do OTA, correct?

Some cable providers are providing broadcast HD stations via clear QAM, but there are no guarantees that they will continue to do that. Also, they have the right to move the channel locations around, although in my personal experience that does not happen often. So it is quite possible that you may be able to receive some HD channels with basic cable.

However, a couple of benefits to using OTA, in addition to cable:

1. OTA signal is typically compressed less than over cable, which should result in better picture quality.
2. Redundancy. Occasionally, my cable signal goes out. OTA rarely does.
3. You may be able to get some OTA stations that your cable provider does not carry.

I'm sure there are some additional reasons, those are the main ones that come to mind.

[carlgar]

Originally Posted by Biggen

So you think I should not go OTA at all since I am keeping basic cable? What about my local programming that is broadcast in HD? I won't be able to get ANY HD channels if I don't do OTA, correct?

Clear QAM is digital which most likely is HD if the local channel is. Most cable companies provide all local shows on their cable. I think Dish or Direct are the only ones that may not provide local programming. Sometimes, during a fee dispute the cable may not carry a certain channel. If you do use OTA then the tuner would be limited to just OTA. I would use a Silicondust HDHomeRun for just OTA or just Clear QAM. The HDHR does not receive analog channels from cable, which is why I got the PRV-2250.

[Biggen]

Originally Posted by barney B.A.

The Hauppauge HVR-2250 is a dual tuner card which would allow you to record 2 shows simultaneously. You could record 2 shows while watching other pre-recorded shows, or watch 2 live shows at the same time. If you need more than that you could add more tuners.

I'm an idiot. When I looked at the picture of the 2250 I saw two coaxial inputs and I assumed they were for two cable inputs which I was wondering how that would worked. But one is for the FM radio. That makes more sense...

Ok, so I can add more of these tuners if I were to add TV's in the future? That sounds fairly easy. Sounds pretty neat that I could simply have every tv in the house plugged into my media center running Sage and be able to stream difference media to all the TV's at once! Also pretty cool that I don't need to have the TV's plugged into the wall cable jack at all. Everything runs over ethernet (or wireless).

@KeithAbbott
I'll check into the Silicon Dust Home Run unit. I just hate to complicate things with multiple tuners (especially from different manufacturers) but I would really like to receive my local stations in HD and I don't know if my cable company sends these out Clear QAM.


@bcjenkins
Wow! That is a lot of tuners. I'm glad to see that adding tuners and using it with Sage seems to be something that works easily.

[KeithAbbott]

I would start with a single 2250, just to try it out. You can easily add another 2250 later (assuming you have enough PCI-e slots), or an HDHomerun, based on your experience and wants.

[Biggen]

Originally Posted by KeithAbbott

I would start with a single 2250, just to try it out. You can easily add another 2250 later (assuming you have enough PCI-e slots), or an HDHomerun, based on your experience and wants.

I agree. I think I'll just get one 2250 and see what happens with that. Maybe I'll get lucky and my cable company rebroadcasts my local stations in HD.

How does wireless work with Sage? I see they sell a wireless NIC for $40 that plugs into the extender. Can I expect the same video quality using that versus wired Ethernet? I know there are a lot of variables with that question...

[barney B.A.]

Originally Posted by Biggen

How does wireless work with Sage? I see they sell a wireless NIC for $40 that plugs into the extender. Can I expect the same video quality using that versus wired Ethernet? I know there are a lot of variables with that question...

I started with wireless with my HD200 and had mixed results. I would go ethernet if possible. I use an actiontec homeplug which is ethernet over your power lines which works well for me.

[MattHelm]

Originally Posted by Biggen

... @bcjenkins Wow! That is a lot of tuners. I'm glad to see that adding tuners and using it with Sage seems to be something that works easily.

My dad is all by himself, and need at least 6 tuners. (Of course he's retired, so can watch 16 hours a day)

[MattHelm]

Originally Posted by KeithAbbott

I would start with a single 2250, just to try it out. You can easily add another 2250 later (assuming you have enough PCI-e slots), or an HDHomerun, based on your experience and wants.

Personally I'd get one of each. That's enough turners for most people, and with his requirements, the HDHR can handle the OTA, and the 2250 the cable. Plus the HDHR is MUCH easier to setup!!!!

[pjpjpjpj]

Is there nothing else on basic cable that you need, other than E! for "the boss"? If that's the only basic cable necessity, then you'll only ever need one analog tuner to get that cable. I'd suggest getting one analog tuner (internal or USB), and a dual-tuner HDHR (network). With the dual-tuner HDHR, you will get two QAM, two OTA, or even one of each - depending on what you plug in. You can try QAM, and if you find that you don't get as many locals "in the clear", you can just plug in an antenna and do it that way. OTA is much easier to set up than QAM though - no remapping.

[Tiki]

Right now, I think the HVR-2250 is the best bang for the buck for a new user in the US who is unsure how they might want to use Sage in the future. The flexibility is appealing if you think you might switch between cable, OTA, and satellite sometime in the future or you are worried about your cable provider changing technologies and disabling channels in the future.

Pros:

1. Can record 2 shows simultaneously with one card.
2. Supports OTA via coax (HD or SD, ATSC)
3. Supports Cable via coax (analog SD, clear QAM SD, or clear QAM HD)
4. Supports Composite or S-Video inputs (SD only) which allows you to record from a Set Top Box (Cable or Satellite), or just about any other device (like old VCR, Camcorder, closed circuit TV, etc.).
5. Includes a second cover plate that can be installed in an empty slot to make connecting more things easier.

Cons:

1. Setting up the clear QAM channels can be a little tricky.

Other notes:
Gets installed in an available PCIe x1 slot inside your PC. This can be a pro or a con, depending on your situation.

There are 2 other products that are I think are worth considering for Sage right now: SiliconDust HDHomerun and Hauppuage HD-PVR.

The HD-PVR works with a cable or satellite STB, connects to your PC via USB, and records from the STB via component video. It is currently the only real solution for recording all channels from your STB including the premium encrypted channels like HBO, in HD format. It can only record one channel at a time per device and it requires one STB per device. It's main drawback has been that many users have reported stability problems with it.

The HDHomerun (HDHR) works with OTA and clear QAM. It cannot record analog cable channels, nor can it work with a STB, which means it is useless with satellite. It has 2 tuners and 2 separate coax inputs so you can connect one to OTA and one to cable or tie them both to the same source. It connects to your PC via ethernet, which may be more convenient for some people (no need to open your PC, no need for an empty slot, possible to locate the HDHR near your cable jack and have your PC somewhere else). Setup of clear QAM seems to be easier on the HDHR than with the HVR-2250.

[Tiki]

One other note: the Silicon Dust website has a utility that tells you what stations are available in your area via OTA or clear QAM. You should check it out if you are unsure what you will be able to get.

http://www.silicondust.com/support/channels/