SageMCTuner - anyone have this working with cablecard?

[heffneil]

Another problem / observation is that sage runs very very poorly with the sagedct tuner in the .properties file. I get the wheel of death when pressing guide. When I select a program NOT even using the ceton card the program will load up and I will hear the sound and the picture will be frozen. It takes a good 10 seconds before the picture comes on. I know for a fact it is the new tuner because when I remove it things are smooth! Anyone else see this issue?

[heffneil]

Removed the tuner from my properties file and things are running so much better. I don't know why a tuner that isn't in use would cause so much slow down? Any ideas?

[bollockz]

BTW, babgvant, the new Rev of SageDCT seems to have fixed the problem I was experiencing.

I uninstalled SageDCT, removed the service and reinstalled. The new Rev DCT Service has been running for over 36 hours now.

Whatever you did....thanks :-)

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by bollockz

BTW, babgvant, the new Rev of SageDCT seems to have fixed the problem I was experiencing.

I uninstalled SageDCT, removed the service and reinstalled. The new Rev DCT Service has been running for over 36 hours now.

Whatever you did....thanks :-)

Glad to hear it. Thanks for the update.

[doncote0]

Heffneil with all that you have done so far, you might not want to hear this.

Many times I have seen the "Green Pixelation" problem go away when the cable signal strength issues are addressed. HD cable requires a generous power-passing signal. Many of the other symptoms that you describe are typical of a signal strength issue (slowness, freezing, lagging, pixelation).

Comcast has said that their analog feeds can work all the way down to -5db but doesn't recommend going below 5db. For HD cable, my local Comcast recommends a minimum of 25db of signal strength. I imagine that the Ceton card, from what I have read, requires at least that signal strength if not more.

Electroline makes the best drop amps (IMHO) if you are looking for a drop amp. Splitters should be high quality and at least support the 54MHz to 1002 MHz range. Any unused terminals on splitters should be terminated with a termination cap.

A good 2-way splitter will reduce signal strength to 44% of the orignal.
A good 4-way splitter will reduce signal strength to 20% of the orignal signal.

REF http://www.cabletvamps.com/splitter%20info.htm

[bollockz]

If your db's are low, just ask comcast for a powered amp.
That's what I did

[doncote0]

If your db's are low, just ask comcast for a powered amp.
That's what I did

I did that too, but it cost a bit. After I did more research, I got the Electroline EDA-FT08300. Has better features (IMHO), was just a little more expensive than the Comcast amp and actually improves the communication back to Comcast (zero return path insertion loss).

Many drop amps have return path insertion loss (including the one Comcast gave me ).

[kmp14]

Originally Posted by doncote0

Heffneil with all that you have done so far, you might not want to hear this.

Many times I have seen the "Green Pixelation" problem go away when the cable signal strength issues are addressed. HD cable requires a generous power-passing signal. Many of the other symptoms that you describe are typical of a signal strength issue (slowness, freezing, lagging, pixelation).

Comcast has said that their analog feeds can work all the way down to -5db but doesn't recommend going below 5db. For HD cable, my local Comcast recommends a minimum of 25db of signal strength. I imagine that the Ceton card, from what I have read, requires at least that signal strength if not more.

Electroline makes the best drop amps (IMHO) if you are looking for a drop amp. Splitters should be high quality and at least support the 54MHz to 1002 MHz range. Any unused terminals on splitters should be terminated with a termination cap.

A good 2-way splitter will reduce signal strength to 44% of the orignal.
A good 4-way splitter will reduce signal strength to 20% of the orignal signal.

REF http://www.cabletvamps.com/splitter%20info.htm

FYI - I have a pixelation problem with SageDCT, but I know it is not a signal strength problem because when using SageMCTuner, the picture is ROCK SOLID - no stutters, glitches, or pixelation. If my Ceton is not getting a strong enough signal, I would have problems regardless of which solution I am using.

[doncote0]

FYI - I have a pixelation problem with SageDCT, but I know it is not a signal strength problem because when using SageMCTuner, the picture is ROCK SOLID - no stutters, glitches, or pixelation. If my Ceton is not getting a strong enough signal, I would have problems regardless of which solution I am using.

True, but using that logic, everyone using SageDCT would have the same problem.

It could be that SageDCT is more "fussy" with the signal issues that SageMCTuner hides, ignores or just doesn't have. While your experience with SageMCTuner means signal strength is probably not an issue it doesn't guarantee that--you just are not seeing one when using Windows Media Center.

"Buffering" could be an issue. If the information cannot be exchanged from the cable device to the recording device fast enough, I would also expect similar responses to what you have seen. Doesn't WMC use more buffering through active memory and pagefile than Sage? WMC being a Windows app has direct access to growing and shrinking the pagefile as well as utilizing all remaining available memory.

(Check that you do not have both SageMCTuner and SageDCT trying to run simultaneously.)

Questions that might help you:

Does it happen on the same channels everytime?
How many shows are recording on Ceton when it happens? How many shows are recording total?
How big is your pagefile?
How much memory does your system have?
Are you using DXVA in Sage? How about in WMC (Tools-Options, performance tab, box to enable DXVA)?
What kind of hard drives is your system using?
Is your CPU at the same usage level using both methods? How about the pagefile?
Is the Windows Media Player Network Sharing Service active? Is wmplayer.exe running?
Are Sage and WMC using the same CODEC's for audio/video? Do the SageDCT recordings look normal watched through WMC?

[heffneil]

Comcast tech said I was at 16.5 db whatever the hell that really means but he said it was "good".

I am having signal problems all around. I just ordered a roll of RG11 to re-run from the pole to my home in to the distribution point.

I am going to eliminate all junctions at this point and see what happens. I will probably lose my grounding block but who cares.

Anyway I have a 1 x 8 splitter the tech put in place instead of the one dual spliter, a booster and then a 1x4. That was how it was configured before but there isn't really any benefit at this point from the new setup.

My HDHomeRun's crapping out seems very strange. One was RMA'ed and "fixed". I emailed back Silicondust to say what was wrong with it but never received a response?


Neil

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by bollockz

If your db's are low, just ask comcast for a powered amp.
That's what I did

In most cases, it doesn't require amp in the domicile, but simply turning up the attenuator at the curb. Most signals are distributed VERY hot on the street, and then attenuated to get the desired strength at the jack in the house.

[doncote0]

In most cases, it doesn't require amp in the domicile, but simply turning up the attenuator at the curb. Most signals are distributed VERY hot on the street, and then attenuated to get the desired strength at the jack in the house.

True Fuzzy, but 200 to 210db at the curb is pretty hot. I have seen worse.

The good news, heffneil, is that the street supply to your home looks to be around 200 -210 db.

The bad news is that you are only getting around 16.5db to your systems.

Comcast tech said I was at 16.5 db whatever the hell that really means but he said it was "good".

I have heard techs say that before, but when I called in, the second level of support laughed at me. Yes, I've been there.

Anyway I have a 1 x 8 splitter the tech put in place instead of the one dual spliter, a booster and then a 1x4. That was how it was configured before but there isn't really any benefit at this point from the new setup.

So you only have a 1X8 now? Or do you still have the booster and the 1X4 as well?

A 1x8 leaves you with just under 8% of the original signal strength. If that is the case then 200-210 db becomes 16.5db very easily. Most 1x8's require a booster and the technician should have known that. If you have a cable modem downstream of the 1x8, then that is also "paying the price" of a bad setup.

If you have a cable bridge (modem) then you will need a dual splitter upstream of the booster. Most boosters (a.k.a drop amps) will cause problems with cable modems placed downstream (Comcast's will - mine won't).

44% of the signal will be left after the dual splitter. 44% of 200 is 88.

Place the bi-directional booster (drop amp) upstream of the 1x8. If it is a 10db booster, you will have about 10X the signal strength after the booster. 10X 88 is 880db.

Next it will go to the 1x8 which will leave just under 8% of the signal (7.93%). 7.93% of 880 is 69.8. That is great and most of your problems go away. Your return path insertion loss should be less than 25% which will be more than enough (no more lag).

Cable technicians...many are good, some are very good and a few I think would have problems telling you where "outside" is. Your results may vary.

[heffneil]

I have the input coming in and split immediately one for the cable modem and then going to a booster which then feeds the 1 x 8.

From what I understand the issue as well is the return signal quality and that can't be boosted. I am currently watching a recording that is just very poor quality and breaking up often. I don't know what happened but somehow my cable quality is very bad. The ceton card is now totally out of the picture but the HDHomeRun is suffering.

Like I said I ordered the RG11 and I am hoping that helps with the connection. The pole comes over the street to my yard and is easily 150 feet and then another 200 feet in to the home. Pretty large signal quality degradation at those lengths. The 200 feet from the pole on my yard to the first splitter is RG6 not 11 so I am hoping the new cable will improve the quality of the signal...

Otherwise besides adding the ceton card which is now out I don't know what could have changed!

[bollockz]

Originally Posted by doncote0

I did that too, but it cost a bit. After I did more research, I got the Electroline EDA-FT08300. Has better features (IMHO), was just a little more expensive than the Comcast amp and actually improves the communication back to Comcast (zero return path insertion loss).

Many drop amps have return path insertion loss (including the one Comcast gave me ).

I didnt know they charged. I didnt get a charge for mine. After I installed my picture quality was much better and my internte connection improved 200%

But thanks for the info. I didn't even think about the return path. Not sure how much better I can get but ill look into it

[doncote0]

I didnt know they charged. I didnt get a charge for mine.

When I got mine, they charged. I am glad you didn't have to pay any extra. If everything looks good for you, I would run with it. If not, I would re-evaluate.

(If Comcast gave you the amp, you might be able to give it to someone else, sell it or use it somewhere else if you decide to replace it.) Good luck!

[Sparhawk6]

I need more reviews of this plugin, especially for those on Comcast. How reliable is this?

[heffneil]

Comcast provided an electroline drop amp. It doesn't have a built in splitter it is just a one to one booster

I just replaced the single input cable because with the new splitter he put in he was kinking it 90 degrees so it didn't look good... Still have the ceton unplugged for the meantime. Want to get the HDHomeRun's working reliably again. I received the one replacement today and just installed it...

[doncote0]

Comcast provided an electroline drop amp

That's great because that was one of the problem areas that I suspected. Some old drop amps (boosters) do not allow the required bidirectional signal.

Most likely you got the EDA-2100 (hopefully). That is a great unit. You get very low return path insertion loss (0.5db [6%] loss) and a 15db boost (about 31-32X signal strength). You still might want the cable modem upstream though.

A 90 degree bend is bad. Any good tech would not allow it.

You can get some 90 degree adapters, but don't get the cheap ones. Make sure the adapter you get is rated to 1002MHz or higher.

Make sure any jumpers or cables going to devices are all at least RG-6. RG-59 cannot handle the signal requirements and usually has more "noise" in the signal. This is especially true for HD boxes, HDHR, Cable Modems and the Ceton card.

[heffneil]

Well I bought RG11 end, and the roll of 1000' for RG11. Problem is none of my tools work with those pieces. Now I can buy a new bunch of cables (really just the crimper) I can strip the cable with a utility knife or call comcast and beg the to end the cable. I ran straight through so they will have a cow and want to put a grounding block and other junk which I am not interested in. Pulled lots of cable in the Florida sun and I am beat. Looking forward to replacing my RG6 and looking for better signal!

Neil

[klutzy]

Installed Ceton Infiniti card and SageDCT last week. Easy install and good performance after working out a few small bugs. Will report again after a few days. This replaces my Hauppauge HDPVR and USB-IRT tuning kludge.