27 second client pause on Wireless network.

[mandrews44]

Hi,

Has anyone else seen this issue or could assist in testing using a client on a wireless network?

At the moment, the issue can only be solved by downgrading to 2.0.15 Beta.

I have been chasing this issue for some time now, here are the details.

I am running two clients on two different machines running both cards in the other thread and I do not believe there is a connection so I DO NOT recommend anyone buying a video card just yet. I am using ATI x1 and NVidia 2x on all machines involved. Both clients exibit this issue (ATI or NVidia) on all versions older than 2.0.15 Beta.

If I skip through the video by skipping commercials or jumping to a specific segment of a video (pressing F5 or F6), the video on the client will periodically pause for 27 seconds exactly each time. At times, I will get the 27 second pause without seeking. This only happens while I am on the Wireless network. When I connected the PVR to the wired network via a 100mb/s cable, this problem can not be seen so only testing on a wireless network will duplicate this issue.

I believe this issue has to do with a timeout generated on the stream to the client(s) due to latency created by the wireless network. It has nothing to do with the Server Hardware except for the hard drive, network card, CPU and Memory. (No video card or Encoder card can cause issues in this case unless they are locking up the server or you are watching live TV) My server is never using more than 20% CPU usage even when recording, streaming to two clients and showing a video on the server (timeshifted or live TV). Until 2.0.16, this was one awsome streaming machine., totally blows me away on how well it works. (will post that story at another time ).

I have just reinstalled windows fresh due to a hard drive upgrade and to all the ATI drivers that were left behind from discovering what works for ALL my needs. Anyway, all drivers for the system are up to date the system is rock solid except for this issue.

Here are my Server specs:

E-Machines T2642 2.6Ghz Celeron
Windows XP Pro SP1 w/all the patches.
DirectX v9.0b
Java 1.4.2_04
768 Megs Ram
Hauppaue PVR-250 with v1.8 drivers.
Verto G-Force FX5200 Video with latest Drivers.
Using hardware assisted Hauppauge decoder with registy hack.
Network #1: Ethernet 10/100 cable in server room
Network #2: 54G Wireless in Family room

Both clients use software decoders.

What works:

1> 2.0.15 Beta with Wireless to both clients

2> .16 RC1 or .17 RC2 on Ethernet to one client, wireless client still won't work.

Regreation method.
1> Use wireless network
2> use 2.0.16 or later
3> Stream a video to client over the wireless network.
4> Seek using F5 or F6. (Doesn't happen every time so seek until it does)

You will notice on both client and server the CPU usage and network bandwidth are 0 during the 27 second pause.

Regards,

Mark

[turak]

I am having this same issue on one of my clients. The client is on a different subnet then the server with a linux box doing port forwarding in between. I don't have this problem with 2.0.15beta. It started with RC1 and continues in RC2. It's damn annoying.

[mandrews44]

Hi,

Anything that will cause a slight delay in the packet transfer will cause this issue (or so it seems). I have tried loading up my 100mbps wired network by transfering a file over two different computers and it wasn't enough to recreate the issue. That could be because of the QOS service running. I have tried enabling QOS on the wireless network but unless there is other traffic other than me streaming from the server, QOS can't do much.

Regards,

Mark

[turak]

I just timed the last two freeze ups on my client. Both were 27 seconds long.

[turak]

Originally posted by mandrews44
Hi,

Has anyone else seen this issue or could assist in testing using a client on a wireless network?

My laptop using 802.11g does not have this problem. Are you using NAT on the wireless network? My client that's having this problem is using DNAT to talk to the server.

[mandrews44]

Originally posted by turak
My laptop using 802.11g does not have this problem. Are you using NAT on the wireless network? My client that's having this problem is using DNAT to talk to the server.

The wireless router has NAT but that shouldn't come into play unless I am going over the internet. Both client and server are on the same subnet.

The bottom line in my mind is the slight latency caused by a router shouldn't cause the client to malfunction.

BTW, what brand and type of wireless rounter are you using? Is it an access point or Broadband router? I have a broadband router.

Before we start attacking the network, I would like to know why the problem didn't exist in 2.0.15 Beta which I am using today without flaw.

Regards,

Mark

[turak]

Originally posted by mandrews44
The wireless router has NAT but that shouldn't come into play unless I am going over the internet. Before we start attacking the network, I would like to know why the problem didn't exist in 2.0.15 Beta which I am using today without flaw.

Regards,

Mark

I too would like to know that. This problem started when I upgraded from 2.0.15 to 2.0.16RC1. I downgraded to 2.0.15 and it went away. I upgraded to 2.0.17RC2 when it came out and the problem returned.

[tangfj]

I'm having the same problems. My server, though, is 802.11g so I have problems on my client on everything past .15. It seems pretty obvious to me that something changed on Sage's side from .15 to RC1 and RC2. Now if only we could find out what changed... I also lost support for my ATI remote when I upgraded to RC1. It doesn't work in RC2 either. May be time to bust out girder and use something else on my client.

[mlbdude]

The ATI remote plugin requires a change for it to work on the Client now.

http://forums.sage.tv/forums/showthr...=remote+wonder

[kny3twalker]

I am using a Dell router according to CNet they were the fastest for wireless g non super or I would have gone with Netgear
but anyways I am still unable to use my client at all
I am almost wishing I would have trialed it first
but I am sure the issues will be worked out
or eternet will be strung across my apartment

[jptaz]

I plan on going wireless soon for a client. Has anyone reported this bug?

[mandrews44]

Hi,

I have reported this bug and I am working with Jeff to resolve it. In further testings, I have seen my D-Link 2.4ghz 11mbit 802.11B USB doesn't show this issue. (11MBit/Second is not acceptable for 2 cleints and marginally acceptable for one client) However, that just means there is either less latency or delay in the packet sends. The issue might be the packet is getting there too early and the buffer is being cleared. More testing needs to be done, that is for sure.

At this point, it is a crapshoot weither or not you are going to have this issue. It all depands on there is a delay in the wireless driver / connection as in using a router. If you do, your only option at the moment is to use 2.0.15 Beta server.

Regards,

Mark

[jptaz]

Thanks Mark.

I hope you and Jeff are able to figure out the issue.

John

[kny3twalker]

I am not having any pause for 27 seconds but I can sit infront of the router with a perfect excellent 54MBPS and get stuttering for 27 seconds or about
Am I not allowed to move an inch while using wireless g?
this is notebook and I would hope just little movements would not disrubt the connection
I think I am just going to go wired soon for TV viewing and enjoy the wireless for internet if this is not resolved
I do not know what to say???????

[mandrews44]

Hi,

I heard a change in RC2 was a timeout of 100ms was added to try to fix my problem. (didn't work) You may be experiancing the same issue but you are barly in the zone and you are hitting the 100ms timeout. This would limit the number of packets you get per second and could cause the stuttering due to the delayed response from the server. Is RC1 any better?

Regards,

Mark

[kny3twalker]

have not even tried any other Client software
I just got the Centrino Saturday and bought the Client version on Friday night when I knew it was to be delivered Saturday
Used almost every SageTV beta though
I am going into the last week of school though so this is going to have to wait until after that
hopefully a new beta will be out and we can hopefully have local media on Clients other than DVDs(I asked for this in a feature request afterall it is a notebook, and it does not just stay at home)

[mandrews44]

UPDATE:

After searching for new wireless drivers and upgrading the wireless hub I decided to watch live TV considering there isn't anything being recorded. My 5 year old keeps the PVR busy and hard drives full.

Just about every time I go to change channels, I will get the 27 seconds pause. At times I will also get stuttering but havn't timed it yet. Considering when I change channels, the CPU usage goes up on the server, I believe the issue may be the packet is getting to the server before it is ready to accept it. Meaning, this is not a timeout issue but a issue of setup timing and sage server not being ready for the packet when it is sent. I am just documenting this and will update later after I load up the processor with one of my distributed applications that uses 100% CPU all the time..

Update:

I loaded up the CPU and unless I put the SageTV Process in low priority, the pausing did not get worse on the server. I put HERemote in low priority to try to stop the pausing when I changed channels but that didn't work either. My only conclusion is the call to TunerStub is causing the delay and the same issue.

I have just loaded up the client processor and basically cut it's power in half. I get stuttering but not the 27 second delay, not even once. When watching the stream on the 11B network, I noticed there was a delay between the time I pressed F5 or F6 adn the time the video skipped. With 54G, it is virtually instantanious. Since there is no delay between me pressing the key and the video skip using 54G, I am slowing down the client in the effort to intruduce a delay and it is working. This tell me the client is firing a packet back so fast the server isn't ready to recieve it.

Another UPDATE:
I wrote a program that is adjustable and introduces a delay by using all the CPU for 0.015 seconds and then sends a message to windows to allow all programs to execute. While there is still a long delay from the time I press the F5 button and when it seeks, the 27 second pause is gone. Now I can report this and get it fixed


Regards,

Mark

[mandrews44]

Hi,

I am continuing in the quest to find what is causing this nagging issue with 2.0.16 RC1 and RC2. As you know by the last post, I have been going on the belief the packets are arriving too quickly and what the system actaully needs is a built-in delay. I went to the furthest computer on the wireless network and did the following command.

Click Start and select run
Run CMD
in the dos window, type: PING PVR -t

*PVR is the IP address of your HTPC.

If you are experiancing this issue and your ping is 1ms or lower, here is what you can try, it works for me. IF you have a movable antenna, move your antenna until you get pings > 10ms. Once you do, you will notice your 27 second pauses no longer exist. Amazingly if I make the system less responseive, the Sage Client works better. This seems to be due to the packet being returned to the server before the server is prepared to receive it. I have to go though great lengths to make the signal on a client 50 feet away give me 10ms ping like moving the antenna out of phase and on the floor folded up. Signal strength drops down to 1 or 2 bars but sage stops pausing.

So, don't go for stronger signal, go for weaker. This will cause a higher packet resend count and a delay between packets that will keep SageTv healthy and streaming.

This is NOT a solution but only a method of identifying the problem.

UPDATE: found a planters can I was going to use as a cantenna and put the client antenna inside and that brought the signal down to one bar. It also kept Sage happy and didn't pause once until the second I took the antenna out of the can. Like clockwork.

Regards,

Mark

[turak]

any updates from Jeff on this?

[kny3twalker]

I have submitted this as a bug
but I have no reference as in I just got the client and it does not work