HD PVR 9 second delay?

[heffneil]

Has anyone noticed the delay when recording / watching a cable box via the HD PVR? I was trying to adjust setting on the box with the remote and watching via sage and it was at least a 9 second delay. Some other times it seemed to be 12 seconds! Is that normal? I can't imagine it is...

Thanks,

Neil

[freedml]

I'd say mine is closer to 5 sec. but there's still a substantial delay.

[SHS]

Originally Posted by heffneil

Has anyone noticed the delay when recording / watching a cable box via the HD PVR? I was trying to adjust setting on the box with the remote and watching via sage and it was at least a 9 second delay. Some other times it seemed to be 12 seconds! Is that normal? I can't imagine it is...

Thanks,

Neil

It depend on your cable/sat receiver box which can be as little 5sec to as much as 15sec delay becuases HD-PVR has to wait for a full RGB video feed from the receiver box.

[heffneil]

Wow that really sucks! I guess I Have to keep holding out for cable card BUT I have another question.

This isn't a tuning delay it is a total delay. So once I have a picture and I move around the menus on the cable box it is still delayed!

Thanks,

Neil

[m1abrams]

Originally Posted by heffneil

Wow that really sucks! I guess I Have to keep holding out for cable card BUT I have another question.

This isn't a tuning delay it is a total delay. So once I have a picture and I move around the menus on the cable box it is still delayed!

Thanks,

Neil

That delay is due to the fact that you need to buffer the data in order to transcode it. Since the HD-PVR is doing in "Real-time" transcoding of a LOT of data you need to buffer a good bit. Any capture device that actually has hardware to convert the data is going to have some level of buffer and will cause some amount of delay. Which is why most people tell you never to use ANY capture device to play a console game through because even small sub-sec delay is huge for games. Now for HD capture you need to buffer even more data so you get a larger delay.

Now for DVR application does it matter if what you are watching is 5-10 seconds old? I would say it would not, the only issue you run into is the problem you see. Do you get this delay on the line outs of the HD-PVR? I was under the impression those were there as a means of a splitter. So if you connect the set to those ouputs you should be able to tweak your settings without the delay.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by heffneil

Wow that really sucks! I guess I Have to keep holding out for cable card...

How is CableCard going to solve the issue? CableCard (AFAIK) doesn't even support PPV, I think we're still waiting for True2Way to be able to do that.

[heffneil]

Well I was hoping CableCard would be more responsive and work. If not then I guess I am dumb or ignorant and just continue to suffer.

My HDHomeRun is FAST. Too bad I only get major networks!

Neil

[heffneil]

I don't have the outputs hooked up on the HD-PVR so I don't know how quick that is. What stinks is switching chanels! I think that long of a delay is too long. You guys find 5 to 9 seconds to be acceptable? What if you fat finger a number and you are tuned in to the wrong thing! Kinds stinks huh?

[Fuzzy]

not to invite the wrath of sportera, but I think most find it acceptable because most don't 'change channels'. I've actually even removed the program guide from my main menu, as it serves no real purpose in my household.

[sportera]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

not to invite the wrath of sportera, but I think most find it acceptable because most don't 'change channels'. I've actually even removed the program guide from my main menu, as it serves no real purpose in my household.

I'm baaaaak!

If you hate the 5-(now 15sec??) pause as much as I do, then check out this link and vote:

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43017

Then head over to this link:

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48115

And vote #1....

You'll find there are those like Fuzzy who seem to think they can divert Sage development priorities from "fixing the pause" to others by attempting to have the average Sage user actually believe that the majority of Sage users "pre-record everything" and never watch LiveTV, surfing channels to see what's good to watch at any given time of the day or night. Yeah, right!

He is right about one thing. If you choose to record everthing you would typically watch, and delay watching it, you won't experience "da PAUSE".

Bottom line is that if your TV programinig is via Satellite, and you use HD-PVR's for tunning into true Hi Definition TV, AND you choose to watch LiveTV programing, you're going to experience the "Pause". And if you're really lucky, you'll get the added, ultimate annoyance of a 5-10 sec audio studder that occurs the duration of the pause.

Yes it sucks! Yes it needs to be fixed! And yes you should voice your opinion as to what priority should be given to find a fix or solution (other than pre-recording everything before watching it or changing to cable).

[m1abrams]

I think you guys might be talking about several "different" delays at the same time. Here is a quick list of different delays that SageTV has:
File switching delay: i.e. when one show ends and another begins while watching live TV" This is due to the fact that SageTV records a seperate file per show regardless if it is live tv or not versus other systems like Tivo that use a circular buffer. Both methods have pros and cons.

Tuning delay: Time it takes to tune to the channel. This is worst with HD-PVR since it has to tune an external cable box via IR, so you have the added delay of the repeater and the cable box actually tuning the channel. This delay can not be eliminated, it can be improved with CableCards but would not eliminate it completely.

Encoder Buffer Delay: This is the one that the OP is seeing when he uses the cable box menu system through the HD-PVR. On the HD-PVR this can not be eliminated. It is a requirement for the HW encoder in the HD-PVR to fill its memory buffer. To reduce this you need a better faster encoder but you will not be able to eliminate it completely.

[eric3a]

...that the majority of Sage users "pre-record everything" and never watch LiveTV,

That's exactly what I do. Even "live" news are pre-recorded and watched with 20 or 30 minutes delay so we can skip commercials.
No idea if I am in the majority or not... And I understand each his own way of using SageTV, but perso i am not going back to channel surfing.

Eric

[Savage1701]

Yeah Heff, it stinks. And the other posters are correct about necessary delays to use IR, lock the channel signal, buffer it, receiving your first social security check, and then for you to actually get to see that program...It's a niche product relative to all the ATSC and Analog Cable tuners out there.

Some people even increase one of the delays in the properties file if their HD-PVR needs extra time to lock on to a channel because of resolution change or whatever.

I'm like the others - I pretty much only use my HD-PVR for recording. Live switching of OTA ATSC or Analog Cable for me is pretty fast though, about the same as Beyond TV, and not really all that much worse than my cable box, not that I'm proud to admit I use Charter.

[heffneil]

Yeah I love my HD Home Run I just wish I had more unencrypted QAM Channels. I think I have learned to live with the pause a little and I am happy that the PVR is working. I am not ready to abandon the local set top box for many tv's so I might order up a couple more direcTV boxes in order to have some decent channel selection on SageTV. Should it become reliable I might have extra DirecTV boxes laying around at that point. Speaking of which anyone know how many HD PVR's you can run on a single machine?

What is the most documented on this forum with success?

Thanks!

Neil