Using Windows Media Center and SageTV

[Oats]

Are there any conflicts that can cause problems with using SageTV and Windows Media Center (Win7 x64) on the same PC?

I assume they don't like sharing tuners. I have a single Hauppauge 2250, as long as only one app is using the tuners at a time will there be any problems?

[PGPfan]

Can't say for sure regarding 64-bit, but they should work on the same PC provided that they NEVER try to access tuners at the same time, and there may be other issues but I think tuner locking is the main issue. Just curious - why are you wanting to run both?

-PGPfan

[Oats]

I am trying out MCE to replace Sage, but I don't want to stop using Sage until I'm sure I'll be happy with MCE. So I'm trying out different parts here and there to decide if I want to make the switch.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by Oats

I am trying out MCE to replace Sage, but I don't want to stop using Sage until I'm sure I'll be happy with MCE. So I'm trying out different parts here and there to decide if I want to make the switch.

Oh what ever would make you want to do that is their..

1. lack of ability to offer a unified home solution? (extenders can't play native dvd's let alone blu-rays), client pc's don't share a unified guide/tuner experience they are completely separate.
2.Lack of support for blu ray period (yes you can get it with third party but that shouldn't be necessary except requiring the codecs.)
3. Drm problems oh they exist even on OTA and you will be really ticked off when you get one and can't watch a show (cough NBC cough)
4. Lack of a server solution (yes vial is unleashed and offers nothing to media center users)
5. Terrible, Terrible Microsoft support.
6. Lack of support for skinning and customizations.

really the only "pros" if you want to call them that is
1. UI (but again not customizable and very limited in what you can do with it)
2. Ceton's cable card tuner but again with drm and their horrible horrible extender (xbox 360 is it now) not really viable for a whole home solution)

just curious what got you itching to try it. I used it since it was first announced until I switched to sagetv over a year ago. I don't miss it one bit.

[Oats]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Oh what ever would make you want to do that is their..

1. lack of ability to offer a unified home solution? (extenders can't play native dvd's let alone blu-rays), client pc's don't share a unified guide/tuner experience they are completely separate.
2.Lack of support for blu ray period (yes you can get it with third party but that shouldn't be necessary except requiring the codecs.)
3. Drm problems oh they exist even on OTA and you will be really ticked off when you get one and can't watch a show (cough NBC cough)
4. Lack of a server solution (yes vial is unleashed and offers nothing to media center users)
5. Terrible, Terrible Microsoft support.
6. Lack of support for skinning and customizations.

really the only "pros" if you want to call them that is
1. UI (but again not customizable and very limited in what you can do with it)
2. Ceton's cable card tuner but again with drm and their horrible horrible extender (xbox 360 is it now) not really viable for a whole home solution)

just curious what got you itching to try it. I used it since it was first announced until I switched to sagetv over a year ago. I don't miss it one bit.

The only thing I may be concerned about that you list is 3. The main reason I am trying it though is because Sage doesn't playback anamorphic MKV's correctly, which is all my DVD rips. Plus the UI in sage is bad, SageMC, SMW, TVE makes it better but they each have their own issues as well. Like I said I'm testing things 1 at a time find out the pros and cons of each before I decide if I want to make the switch.

Maybe Sage 7 will come out tomorrow and will fix all the issues I have with Sage.

[vividweb]

Originally Posted by Oats

Maybe Sage 7 will come out tomorrow and will fix all the issues I have with Sage.

Expectations with Sage 7 are so high there is no way it is going to be successful. Everyone seems to think it will solve their specific problems, which would be truly magical if it could.

I have thought about trying MCE, but just can't get around the cons that Plucky listed, the flash would be nice, but it has to function first, its just a menu for my TV. But it would be nice to have the function and have some style to go with it.

[david1234]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

3. Drm problems oh they exist even on OTA and you will be really ticked off when you get one and can't watch a show (cough NBC cough)

I had that with Vista MC... all I got for any broadcast TV was a green screen and sound! Wasn't more than a couple hours after trying that out, that I had BTV installed, and then a couple hours after that Sage

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by david1234

I had that with Vista MC... all I got for any broadcast TV was a green screen and sound! Wasn't more than a couple hours after trying that out, that I had BTV installed, and then a couple hours after that Sage

I gave WMC a very legite chance and saw it's potiental the very first time I saw it. Back in early xp when I had to buy a pc that came with it because you couldn't buy windows media center edition back then. (I hate buying computers and not building them myself). I also invested heavily in 3 xbox 360s (when they were not $200) and then invested in my own custom build when media center went OEM. AFter that was cable card and of course I had to buy another computer from dell. I keep living on hopes and promises that one day everything would be there all the features and potiental I saw in the platform. Then one by one my hopes got squashed and went to Windows heaven I guess...Directv canceled...Dish Network canceled...softsled never seeing the lite of day...extenders never supporting proper codecs/formats....

Then a couple of people changed to sagetv that I valued their opinion (ghostlobster and Babgvant). So I gave it a go and why it doesn't do everything I want I am able to change it to do most of what I want with their open development platform (try asking microsoft for an api function = not fun = won't happen).

cheers

[ghostlobster]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

I gave WMC a very legite chance and saw it's potiental the very first time I saw it. Back in early xp when I had to buy a pc that came with it because you couldn't buy windows media center edition back then. (I hate buying computers and not building them myself). I also invested heavily in 3 xbox 360s (when they were not $200) and then invested in my own custom build when media center went OEM. AFter that was cable card and of course I had to buy another computer from dell. I keep living on hopes and promises that one day everything would be there all the features and potiental I saw in the platform. Then one by one my hopes got squashed and went to Windows heaven I guess...Directv canceled...Dish Network canceled...softsled never seeing the lite of day...extenders never supporting proper codecs/formats....

Then a couple of people changed to sagetv that I valued their opinion (ghostlobster and Babgvant). So I gave it a go and why it doesn't do everything I want I am able to change it to do most of what I want with their open development platform (try asking microsoft for an api function = not fun = won't happen).

cheers

Hey! Don't go blaming your non-conformist, traitorous ways at my feet!
As always, Plucky makes some great points and there is no arguing with solid factual data. I moved back to MCE in part due to stability issues with Sage and the HDPVR, but moreso due to the interface and intuiative feel of MC7. The HDPVR stability issues were hammered out by using an older Hauppauge driver with DVBLink, and the CableCARD tuner is just plain working. The only DRM issues I run into are those presented by the CableCARD restrictions, but the HD-PVR gets around that nicely.
The lack of a true client/server architecture is a drag, but we've adjusted.
Anyway...there's my buck-three-eighty.

[banjomensch]

I bought Sage a week ago, then found out it won't work with Windows 7. Sage never explicitly says this. I found out because HD-PVR wouldn't work.

Anyway, HD-PVR and MCE working nicely, but DRM still a problem.

What's the latest rumor on Sage 7's availability? I have a working rig now but would like to move to Sage if it can work with System 7 64 bit and HD-PVR

/john

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by ghostlobster

Hey! Don't go blaming your non-conformist, traitorous ways at my feet!
As always, Plucky makes some great points and there is no arguing with solid factual data. I moved back to MCE in part due to stability issues with Sage and the HDPVR, but moreso due to the interface and intuiative feel of MC7. The HDPVR stability issues were hammered out by using an older Hauppauge driver with DVBLink, and the CableCARD tuner is just plain working. The only DRM issues I run into are those presented by the CableCARD restrictions, but the HD-PVR gets around that nicely.
The lack of a true client/server architecture is a drag, but we've adjusted.
Anyway...there's my buck-three-eighty.

I lay all the blame on your and Babg, My hands are clean

You make some good points as well. The interface is very intuitive on media center and for TV it is hard to beat with cablecard.So I guess I am saying WMC is a great tv dvr with extenders. (If you don't mind the sounds of jet planes taking off when you fire up your extenders ), but outside of dvr/tv functions is where they really have failed. There is no reason to not allow unencrypted DVD and BluRay playback on extenders. They are not breaking any copyright laws by doing this they just don't have the balls to take on the studios and do it.

Curious how have you adjusted to the like of a client/server architecture? Also why have cablecard and hd-pvr?

I kindly will refund you buck-three-eighty...Man inflation is a biatch is use to just be two cents worth of advise

[cncb]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

5. Terrible, Terrible Microsoft support.

Is it even possible to get support from Microsoft? They had the"Ask Microsoft" section of TGB forum. There were no responses to any questions for months and months and their solution was to rename that section to "Tell Microsoft" .

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

The interface is very intuitive on media center...

Just goes to show you how important what you get used to is when defining "intuitive". For me Sage is quite intuitive and when I tried 7MC (since it was installed by default with Win 7), I had the opossite experience of you. I found I had a heck of a time finding my way around 7MC. Almost nothing was where I expected it to be.

But then again, I've been using Sage since very near the beginning.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by banjomensch

I bought Sage a week ago, then found out it won't work with Windows 7. Sage never explicitly says this. I found out because HD-PVR wouldn't work.

Anyway, HD-PVR and MCE working nicely, but DRM still a problem.

What's the latest rumor on Sage 7's availability? I have a working rig now but would like to move to Sage if it can work with System 7 64 bit and HD-PVR

/john

Seeing as there are MANY here that use their systems on Win7, both 32-bit AND 64-bit, I'm guessing you've got something else that was causing your problems. Sage never explicitly said it DOES support win7, but the reason they've never explicitly said they DON'T support win7, is because, well.. it DOES work in win7.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Just goes to show you how important what you get used to is when defining "intuitive". For me Sage is quite intuitive and when I tried 7MC (since it was installed by default with Win 7), I had the opossite experience of you. I found I had a heck of a time finding my way around 7MC. Almost nothing was where I expected it to be.

But then again, I've been using Sage since very near the beginning.

Very true I wasn't implying that sage isn't intuitive, but on the TV side I like it's flow allot better.

To each their own of course . I really did like the tv view in media center and the guide (except I like in sage I can go backwards in time). But sage's are not bad by any means.

[Suntan]

Originally Posted by banjomensch

I bought Sage a week ago, then found out it won't work with Windows 7.
/john

Sage client running happily on win 7 64 bit in my basement. Don’t know if there is a difference between client and server in this regard though.

As for the comments of interface, personally the interface that lets me get things done (search recordings, search disc rips, play, delete, etc.) with the fewest button clicks is the one I consider the most intuitive and will stick with.

For me, the standard Sage UI (with the malore tweaks engaged to get the split screen recordings display) fits the bill over SageMC or wmc. Then again, having a quality universal remote with automatic keys set for important functions (switch to EPG guide, switch to TV recordings, switch to disc rips, erase recording, etc.) really alleviates a lot of pointless screen swapping around and around getting “to the other side” of the 10 UI screen system.

As for the OP's comments about anamorphic MKVs. Isn't that really just an aspect ratio formatting issue? Couldn't you customize one of the AR settings to eliminate the "stretched vertically" look of an anamorphic encoding being played back full screen?

-Suntan

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Very true I wasn't implying that sage isn't intuitive, but on the TV side I like it's flow allot better.

Oh, I know, it just occurred to me when you posted that that I think "ease of use" these days has more to do with what you're used to, than anything inherent in the design.

Kind of like Apple products, and "Wizards", and Linux vs Windows. I tend to find Apple products infuriating to use because they either have things in different places, or "simplify out" functionality I expect. I think the same is true of Linux users when they use Windows. Or when you go the other way and there are so many options it overwhelms you.

I see the same thing at work, there are two different systems I work on that have nearly identical functionality under the hood, but one I find very intuitive (I've worked with it's historical UI for years) the other I find maddening since I've not had much interaction with it. Only real difference is the UI but I like one and the other bugs me

[banjomensch]

Originally Posted by Suntan

Sage client running happily on win 7 64 bit in my basement. Don’t know if there is a difference between client and server in this regard though.

As for the comments of interface, personally the interface that lets me get things done (search recordings, search disc rips, play, delete, etc.) with the fewest button clicks is the one I consider the most intuitive and will stick with.

For me, the standard Sage UI (with the malore tweaks engaged to get the split screen recordings display) fits the bill over SageMC or wmc. Then again, having a quality universal remote with automatic keys set for important functions (switch to EPG guide, switch to TV recordings, switch to disc rips, erase recording, etc.) really alleviates a lot of pointless screen swapping around and around getting “to the other side” of the 10 UI screen system.

As for the OP's comments about anamorphic MKVs. Isn't that really just an aspect ratio formatting issue? Couldn't you customize one of the AR settings to eliminate the "stretched vertically" look of an anamorphic encoding being played back full screen?

-Suntan

perhaps I wasn't as explicit as I should have been.....this is an attempt at Sage TV running on Win7 64 with Hauppage HD-PVR for input.

Tried native patch, everything. No dice.

I'll say this after a career in computer support -- I have come to really appreciate the simplicity of Tivo. Plug that baby in and it just plain works, all for $6.95 a month. If it weren't for the maddening DRM I'd be happy. But I'm Warner Cable and they flip the CCI switch on everything.

MCE wasn't bad, but DRM again.

Oh well, we'll see what version 7 brings us, whenever.

/john

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by banjomensch

perhaps I wasn't as explicit as I should have been.....this is an attempt at Sage TV running on Win7 64 with Hauppage HD-PVR for input.

Tried native patch, everything. No dice.

I'll say this after a career in computer support -- I have come to really appreciate the simplicity of Tivo. Plug that baby in and it just plain works, all for $6.95 a month. If it weren't for the maddening DRM I'd be happy. But I'm Warner Cable and they flip the CCI switch on everything.

MCE wasn't bad, but DRM again.

Oh well, we'll see what version 7 brings us, whenever.

/john

I'll just say this is the first time I've seen mention of the HD-PVR NOT working on Win7.. so again, it's not a sage incompatability issue.

[banjomensch]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I'll just say this is the first time I've seen mention of the HD-PVR NOT working on Win7.. so again, it's not a sage incompatability issue.

Fair enuf -- back to the drawing board with a clean install of nothing but.

Thanks for the reply....helps straighten things out.

/john