New system from scratch - what do you think?

[sharky905]

Hello all;

I am moving in August, and going to start a new home media system/design from scratch at that time. I would love to get your advise of items I missed or ideas you have to make it better and/or cheaper.

About 2 years ago I used GBPVR with a Hauppauge MVP box to stream to my TV but now I am looking for something more stable, better supported etc - and SageTV seems the best option for me. I have in storage right now an old Sony 34" CRT SD TV and a hauppauge MVP box. I also have two laptops (wife and kids machines) and will be getting a laptop from work to connect to the network. I also have a modded xbox which can stream shows from a windows share or xbms server, but don't know how that can fit into a SageTV setup?

I plan on buying a new system to host sage by itself. Fast HD from the OS and add a 2TB (internal, ESATA or USB3?) for recordings, Win7 with 4GB ram? Something like http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/...p-b9000171--en to start and add on HD as needed?

For the network plan on picking up a DIR-655 - wire in all the clients but have wireless for laptops etc.

All shows will be over the air (I can get about 20 stations in my area) - using two 4-bay antennas combined (one pointed at buffalo, one at Toronto), running to a HD Homerun giving me two tuners.

The TV in the living room I plan to purchase the HD Theatre package and if I have any money left will purchase a nice 40" or so TV for this room

Old SD TV will probably go in the basement for the kids, from which I will need to use the xbox to stream from the server (windows shares from the SageTV server), or Hauppauge MVP media box.

I also need to put a small LCD tv up in the master bedroom - again hopefully using the xbox to stream recorded shows or Hauppauge media box.

The two laptops I would also like to have the ability to watch TV from the wireless network if the cost of this isn't all that high.

As far as Sagetv - what are most costs? From what I see I can purchase the SageTV HD Theatre with media Center for $225US, and I would need to purchase SageTV placeshifter license laptops (one for now) ($30) and media center extender for the Hauppauge MVP box? ($30) - do I also have to purchase the client ($30) or does that come with the placeshifter license - what's the difference?

Does anyone know how difficult it will be to add the modded xbox - does SageTV store the files in .avi or supported type?

Thanks

[davephan]

One of the first things to consider is what type of source you have for the video. It sounds like it is over the air. Next, is the over the air digital or analog? The HDHomerun or the HVR-2250 is a good dual tuner solution for over the air. The HVR-2250 does require a PCI-e slot. Make sure the new system has PCI-e slots, since that is the future direction. You'll also need PCI slots too. I look for a high number of hard drive SATA connections and built in RAID. Also, a high number of PCI slots,PCI-e slots and USB connections. This all depends on how large you want to be able to grow your system.

The case will also determine how many hard drives you can have, without using external hard drives. Are you planning on protecting your video files from a single drive failure? If so, how? Either file copying or RAID works. WHS cannot backup it's own system drive yet, so it isn't a good option. A new version of WHS will be able to backup it's own system drive, but it isn't clear when that will happen, and it isn't clear how successful recoveries will be from the Microsoft backup system. Over the years Microsoft backup systems have had a high failure rate for actually recovering, which is the whole point to backing up the system. Therefore, you might strongly consider using disk imaging software like Acronis or Ghost to take periodic system images of the system, so you can quickly recover, if there is a failure. It is very important to be able to recover to the past, when the SageTV system was working perfectly. If people become dependent on the SageTV computer system working, then you will not want to ever have long outages while you are going through a painful and time consuming manual rebuild.

You should have a separate hard drive for the operating system / programs and the video files. The video drives should be formatted with 64k blocks, which is not the default block size.

You should also consider replacing the Hauppauge MVP boxes with HD-200 boxes. The HD-200 video is better. The HD-200 audio is drastically better. The HD-200 is also far more reliable than the MVP. The HD-200 can also playback a number of different formats without on the fly transcoding on your SageTV computer into mpeg2, the only format that the MVP can playback. Once you use the HD-200, you will not want to use the MVP units again.

If you Comskip files, then you should use Sage Job Queue, so only commercial channels are processed. If you want to off load the Comskip processing load to second computer, that is also an option.

If you using a set top box, I also recommend using a USB-UIRT instead of Hauppauge IR controls.

Dave

[Serra]

If you are a computer person, you might consider using one of the newegg DIY combos:

http://www.newegg.com/Store/MasterCo...=DIY-PC-Combos

They will be a bit cheaper or better quality.

If you don't feel confident putting together a system, don't, but if you do, you can really get a better system than at a big box.

[SWKerr]

Building your own PC is the best way to go. If you modded and Xbox then you can build a PC. Dell runs very good special and the refurbed PC are also good deals if you don't want to build.

Unfortunately the Modded Xbox is not going to playback the OTA HD recordings. It will be possible to trans-code the recordings automatically so you will have a copy that will play on the Xbox but the native HD resolution is more than the Xbox can handle. The trans-coded files will also play on the MPV.

[sharky905]

Thanks all,
I can build my own PC, and I know that is what I should do, I just find after purchasing the OS as well the costs usually end up more expensive to do the individual components.

I noticed many people state they run WHS - is this a recommended OS or would I be fine with a Win7Home? The machine will be used only for SageTV.

Also for cost reasons I am going to have to start somewhere and let it grow over time.

I am thinking of starting with a Gateway 4831-01 (6GB Ram, 1TB HDD) and adding a 2nd internal HDD for storage - the machine also has eSATA options. Over time I will see what our families storage needs are an build something to fit. BestBuy has them for $549. I can't build anything myself for that.

After your comments I think I will scrap the Hauppauge MVP and xbox and stick with the HD200 (maybe 2) and our laptops with clients for now. If the wife acceptance factor (WAF) works in my favour then I can pick up a few more HD200s.

So I start with SageTV+client + extra client and the HD Theatre for $330, Server for $550, monitor for $150, Gigabit router for $200, HD Homerun for $170 = $1400 (plus cables and additional HDDs when required)?

[JetreL]

Any quad core PC or better with ~ 3 gigs of Ram should be more than enough for running SageTV with lots of plugins and Comskip.

Like it was said above:

- Look at storing video on it's own drive(s) formatted to 64k block
- WHS is a good stable OS (I think it's much better at memory management and the backup features work well for my needs. It really shines if you are running a headless server) but I have ran Sage on XP, Win7, Linux all stable enough to satisfy the WAF.
-Make sure you back up SageTV sudo regularly

One thing I will tell you is be prepared for a steep learning curve at first. After you get the hang of it, it's much easier and a really configurable product. I typically make a zip backup of the Sage directory every-time I install or update a plug-in that way it's really easy to roll back any changes.

The HD200 are a great choice! You won't be dissatisfied with them!

Originally Posted by sharky905

So I start with SageTV+client + extra client
monitor for $150

You probably don't need the two licenses unless you think they will both be on at the same time.
For the monitor why not spend the same $$ and buy the WHS license then you can run it headless using terminal services to log in or just install VNC. Whatever works best for you though.

[davephan]

Scratch building a system won't be cheaper, but it will be better. The pre-built systems I've seen are very limited. The cases can't hold many drives, the system board doesn't have much capacity for drives, USB connections, PCI slots, and PCI-e slots. Usually the power supply is underpowered. The operating system is an extra cost, but you get the media, not an image, pre-loaded with junkware.

Before you start, you should think of how your going to recover if and when the system fails. WHS is a bad choice for recovery, at least before Vail proves it is a viable way to recover it's own operating system. XP or Windows 7 are probably better choices for recovery. You could still use WHS, but you have to live with the risk of long system recovery times.

There's a number of disk imaging products for recovery. Some are free, some are pay software. If you periodically image your computer, you can recover back to a point in time when the system was working perfectly. If you don't have a recovery plan, you could have long downtime manually rebuilding you system, which will decrease the WAF.

I usually get my hardware from Newegg. The reviews can be helpful there. Although almost everything has at least one bad review, but too many bad reviews or seriously bad reviews will help you make your selection. You'll have to determine how much system is in your budget. If you design it right, you will be able to expand the system in the future. The forum is a good place to see what others are using. If you plan on using accessory programs like Comskip, you'll want at least a dual core, but a quad core is better.

Dave

[SWKerr]

I am putting something similar together for a neighbor. Here is what I am thinking.

I would go with a WHS.

The memory is the problem with build systems right now but you can get close. (System builders have long term deals and are paying less for memory.) Overall you get better components and flexibility with Build your own. It is still worth it.
WHS build:
$99 Antec Three Hundred with 430W Power Supply
$70 AMD Athlon II X3 (90% chance will be Quad capable)
$88 GIGABYTE GA-MA785GT-UD3H
$55 2GB DDR3 RAM
$22 DVD
$99 1.5TB Hard Drive
$99 WHS
$550 Shipped from Newegg

You don't need more than 2GB RAM for WHS but if you went to Win7 4GB is better. Win7 $99 as well. You only need a monitor for WHS for setup. If you have even an old one then you are good you can remote in from a laptop for everything else. I don't even have a DVD on my WHS. I would also go for the second hard drive up front for backup purposes.

Amazon has the HDHR for $130 with shipping

HD Theater with SageTV server software is $225. 2 Clients $30 each. If you run WHS then you also get a Place shifter client for free. Total SageTV expense $285

$99 D-Link DIR-655. I have this one and it is all you need for home use.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833127215

You are at $1,100 without monitor. Add another 1.5 TB drive and another extender and you are back to $1400

Cheap Cords: Monoprice.com

[sharky905]

Wow, what a great community for support - my hats off to all of you!

I have some great information here to get me planning - I don't arrive back on the North American continent until August - so all I can do is plan from now to then.

I think I might build my own again (it has been a while), instead of buying something from a big box and swapping out all the components anyways.

Thanks!