Google TV?

[Suntan]

Originally Posted by stuckless

I think that perhaps you don't understand...

Thanks. Yeah, I guess I’m just not bright enough to add 2+2. I mean, I’ve got a smartphone, I’ve got a bunch of computers, etc. etc. I can see plain as day what is available now. Maybe I’m just too dense to appreciate what I want. Maybe the light just hasn’t gone off in my head yet. Heck, I still think reality TV is pointless, but everyone looks at me funny when I tell them, straight faced, that “no, in fact I do not know what happened last night on ‘The Bachelor.’” ...Well, to each there own.

As I said, maybe I’ll change my mind when I see what becomes available. That said, currently I have a TV and a laptop. I prefer to do the traditional TV stuff (you know, watching TV) on the TV and the traditional PC stuff (you know, PC stuff) on the laptop.

I’ve never really looked at too much of the (non-video) internet or program stuff and thought “gee this would be better if I had it over on that TV over there.”

Perhaps it is a case of me not understanding.

-Suntan

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by Suntan

Thanks. Yeah, I guess I’m just not bright enough to add 2+2. I mean, I’ve got a smartphone, I’ve got a bunch of computers, etc. etc. I can see plain as day what is available now. Maybe I’m just too dense to appreciate what I want. Maybe the light just hasn’t gone off in my head yet. Heck, I still think reality TV is pointless, but everyone looks at me funny when I tell them, straight faced, that “no, in fact I do not know what happened last night on ‘The Bachelor.’” ...Well, to each there own.

As I said, maybe I’ll change my mind when I see what becomes available. That said, currently I have a TV and a laptop. I prefer to do the traditional TV stuff (you know, watching TV) on the TV and the traditional PC stuff (you know, PC stuff) on the laptop.

I’ve never really looked at too much of the (non-video) internet or program stuff and thought “gee this would be better if I had it over on that TV over there.”

Perhaps it is a case of me not understanding.

-Suntan

You seem that think that because I felt you didn't understand google tv, then somehow, you think, that I think, that you are dense or stupid. I don't know enough about you to make those sorts of conclusions, and to be honest, I don't really group "not understanding" with stupidity. For example, I don't understand String Theory or Quantum Computing, and I don't consider myself stupid for not understanding those concepts. Someday, I may understand them... although I'm not convinced that will actually happen.

I think it's exiting for the potential of what google tv could become. It will be platform to deliver content and applications. Part of what I don't understand is that people seem to not want that, yet, they love the fact that Sage7 now has plugins, and at the touch of button they can add functionality to their SageTV setup (how is this different than google tv). Whether it's a recipe app, news feed, or even a fanart plugin, it's simple to install, and you can do it from a remote. Not all SageTV plugins are TV related, but they still have value. Google TV is a platform... it remains to be seen how well developers leverage that platform to create new and exciting mash up of content and information.

[Suntan]

Originally Posted by stuckless

You seem that think that because I felt you didn't understand google tv, then somehow, you think, that I think, that you are dense or stupid.

No, that was sarcasm. The problem I had was that I said I didn’t see much value in it and you jumped to the conclusion that I didn’t understand it. As if there was no reason *not* to like it as long as person understand what it is. There is where the difference of opinion lies.

I understand it, I just don’t see much value in it.

And for the record, I don’t see much value in an add-in that lets me read recipes off my TV either.

Like I said, maybe I’ll change my tune when I see these great apps. What things (other than strictly allowing for better access to internet based video/audio) do you see compelling for googleTV? I’ll tell you if they interest me.

-Suntan

[Zippster]

I would have to agree with Suntan, more native support would be the answer for me, while the workarounds do indeed work, what you lose with them quality doesnt make them the answer for daily use IMO.
Googles ideas seem decent but way overpriced at this time, I love what Sage does for me, its just these couple small native pieces missing for me before I would equip my entire house with it. Roku along side may eventually be my answer but I'm probably going to sit on the fence with my HD100 a little longer before I lean a certain way.

[brainbone]

More native support in SageTV would be great, but it just wont happen. SageTV is too small a market for Netflix and the like to bother with.

GoogleTV, on the other hand, is very likely to gain all the "native support" you could hope for via apps (already has netflix, pandora, etc.) Add SageTV to the mix and you may have exactly what want when asking for "more native support".

[Suntan]

Originally Posted by brainbone

More native support in SageTV would be great, but it just wont happen. SageTV is too small a market for Netflix and the like to bother with.

GoogleTV, on the other hand, is very likely to gain all the "native support" you could hope for via apps (already has netflix, pandora, etc.) Add SageTV to the mix and you may have exactly what want when asking for "more native support".

You may be right, but then at best it just takes us back to this comment:

"I wouldn’t justify a $300 Revue when I could put a $100 Roku next to the HD300 and get all the same (important) functionality."

-Suntan

[brainbone]

Originally Posted by Suntan

"I wouldn’t justify a $300 Revue when I could put a $100 Roku next to the HD300 and get all the same (important) functionality."

The potential and flexibility of extra apps and evolving content do add value over the relatively static Roku choices of Amazon, Netflix, MLB, etc. ("potential", because there is no Apps Market for GoogleTV yet), but I agree that $300 is a bit steep. $200 seems to be a more appropriate price.

What would you pay for a Roku that could interface well enough with SageTV, removing the need for an extender?

Just the fact that SageTV could (relatively easily) add their services to it should speak to GoogleTV's value.

[Suntan]

Originally Posted by brainbone

What would you pay for a Roku that could interface well enough with SageTV, removing the need for an extender?

Well, the fact that I already have all my Tvs outfitted with extenders leaves me less than yearning for Roku to try and replace them... However, if the real question is, “what is the value of being able to replace an extender and a roku box with just one box?” the answer is, not that much. I have plenty of HDMI inputs and quality universal remotes at each TV. The act of controlling two separate devices isn’t that much of an issue to me. I personally do not feel this compelling need for “just one box” that seems to cause a lot of other people endless fits of frustration.

That said, the more ideal scenario that I would like to see happen (although I admit is rather far fetched) would be to see Sage implement their own flavor of Play ON into the core SageTV program. Basically a transcorder-like program that would playback the regular internet stream through a background process and convert that over for playback at the extenders, but with transcoder settings and control features optimized for playback on the Sage extenders (better PQ than Play ON and the ability to stop/start shows mid stream, etc.) Being able to play hulu basic (at least as long as it is around) and being able to skip over the commercials, is more appealing to me than being able to pay for hulu+ and not being able to skip over the commercials.

Originally Posted by brainbone

Just the fact that SageTV could (relatively easily) add their services to it should speak to GoogleTV's value.

Relatively easy? I too have been cautioning naysayers about judging GoogleTV’s abilities (or lack thereof) based solely by the features of the recent Logitech device. But at the same time, this nonchalant attitude that Google Apps will be able to conquer all is just as misplaced in my opinion. Perhaps in time, perhaps not, but when there is a $150 or less GoogleTV box that has a SageTV app with confirmed ability to bitstream HD audio through HDMI 1.3, correct support for 1080 24p, etc. etc. (basically all the right technical checkboxes checked) then I’d agree it is a no-brainer. I’m not holding my breath waiting for that though. All that would get me is parity with where I am at now.

-Suntan

[brainbone]

Originally Posted by Suntan

Relatively easy? I too have been cautioning naysayers about judging GoogleTV’s abilities (or lack thereof) based solely by the features of the recent Logitech device. But at the same time, this nonchalant attitude that Google Apps will be able to conquer all is just as misplaced in my opinion.

Relatively easy, relative to other STBs out there (AppleTV, Roku, etc.). Perhaps a SageTV app for the Boxee box would be around that same amount of work, but I've lost all interest in Boxee -- squandered effort IMHO.

I have no interest in the instability of hacks like playon and boxee, using screen capture for access to Netflix and the like. They require constant attention from the developers to keep running, and HD content is out of the question without a massive amount of horsepower.

[wado1971]

I must admit that I scoffed at the initial GoogleTV adds but I'm starting to sip the coolaid a bit. Couple questions......

How does SageTV fit into the GoogleTV system. Would the approach be an app+server which strictly utilizes SageTVs core pvr system? I can't imagine retaining sagetv for photos/music/online...... maybe movies thru sage.

Will GoogleTV run on a computer? Don't see why not, but there's been no mention of this.

rob

[brainbone]

Until an SDK is released, GoogleTV apps are available on the Android Market ("early next year"), and GoogleTV is open-sourced (supposedly next summer), most questions can really only be answered by speculation.

So, to further my speculation:

SageTV's potential to fit in with GoogleTV; I would guess that a SageTV app should let GoogleTV see SageTVs recording and related metadata to allow GoogleTV to organize and search it. It probably could also do music, movies, etc., but there may be better ways for GoogleTV to deal with that -- and it hasn't really been a strong focus for SageTV.

For running GoogleTV on a PC; Once it is open sourced, this should be possible, and probably will be done -- but will playing DRM content (Netflix) be an issue in the open source version?

[Fonceur]

Originally Posted by Suntan

"I wouldn’t justify a $300 Revue when I could put a $100 Roku next to the HD300 and get all the same (important) functionality."

What about a new TV purchase with built-in GoogleTV versus a "regular TV" + Roku + HD300? That's where it gets interesting...

[Suntan]

Originally Posted by Fonceur

What about a new TV purchase with built-in GoogleTV versus a "regular TV" + Roku + HD300? That's where it gets interesting...

As I already said, if it becomes an case where googletv is ubiquitous in most tvs and BR players, then of course it only makes sense to have a sagetv app available. But that won’t be this year, and likely not even next year.

However, personally, I don’t see myself buying a new TV anytime soon. So an add on box is the most attractive.

It is interesting though, other than the obvious, direct internet streaming of video content; does anyone have any idea what “apps” they would actually want from a googletv (that they don’t already have available in sage?)

-Suntan

[Suntan]

Originally Posted by brainbone

I have no interest in the instability of hacks like playon and boxee, using screen capture for access to Netflix and the like. They require constant attention from the developers to keep running, and HD content is out of the question without a massive amount of horsepower.

I too do not “like” Play On (more like I view it as a necessary evil.) That said, I do not see a future where I will like the “officially sanctioned” version of some corporate player setup either.

Think about it, Sage is popular (at least with the cable/sat folk) *because* people hate the limited functionality and restrictions that cable companies put on their DVRs... I see this same thing occurring with “official” streaming products (hulu+ makes you pay *and* watch commercials as it is and it is just in its infancy.) Right now streaming is about as accommodative as I think you will ever see it from the content holders (mostly to try and attract new users to the tech) if/when it goes mainstream, your cable contract will look quant compared to the contracts required of official streaming setups. As such, I think there will always be a desire for “unofficial” ways to do more with these services.

As for resources, placeshifter can already transcode HD content on the fly for remote playback. I’ve never used it, but I don’t hear constant complaining about it.

-Suntan

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by Suntan

It is interesting though, other than the obvious, direct internet streaming of video content; does anyone have any idea what “apps” they would actually want from a googletv (that they don’t already have available in sage?)

I can see where you are coming from... Before I had a smartphone, I couldn't think of one app that I wanted on my phone, except for a dialer... now I have games, weather, media, calculators, etc, etc... but I didn't want any of those apps to start with

I only use sagetv as a media player. ie, I don't use the PVR functions. So when/if someone writes a media player for google tv that plays content over the network and includes the ability to lookup metadata/fanart, allows me to manage my collection, etc, then I may not have a need for SageTV But, I'd still stick with SageTV if there was an app that allowed me to play my content via a GoogleTV box.

Right now there are no apps (or very few) and the hardware is expensive. I'm not about to rush out to a buy a googletv box, but I probably will as the price drops.

[Suntan]

Originally Posted by stuckless

I can see where you are coming from... Before I had a smartphone, I couldn't think of one app that I wanted on my phone, except for a dialer... now I have games, weather, media, calculators, etc, etc... but I didn't want any of those apps to start with

Yeah, I have a smartphone too, and I find the kind of apps that area tailored to it (mobile apps that use the internet) are quite useful. Those apps are mainly advantageous when you want access to programs, but don’t want to carry a computer.

That said, I fail to relate those to the TV. I want the TV to play videos while I do other things on a laptop (or my phone.)

Can you think of anything (other than cataloging video to watch) that you would want Google to be able to do on your TV? I can’t, however I had a pretty good idea of what I wanted a phone to be able to do prior to getting a smartphone.

-Suntan

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by Suntan

Yeah, I have a smartphone too, and I find the kind of apps that area tailored to it (mobile apps that use the internet) are quite useful. Those apps are mainly advantageous when you want access to programs, but don’t want to carry a computer.

But I guess that's my point... if you and I had this discussion 2 years about smartphones, then I'd be "I just don't get it. I have a phone to talk to people, that's it". But, as much as I hate to admit it, my feelings about a smartphone has changed

Can you think of anything (other than cataloging video to watch) that you would want Google to be able to do on your TV? I can’t, however I had a pretty good idea of what I wanted a phone to be able to do prior to getting a smartphone.

I think it goes with saying, that if you have it hooked up to your tv, then Video will play huge role in what you intend to do with it. So, the wide range of streaming services will be enticing to some. Being able to switch from watching a sagetv movie to netflix without having to powerdown the sage box and then fireup the ps3, and then go to the netflix app, while not a huge deal, will be nice. I don't think there is going to be 1 killer app that going to bring people on board. When android first arrived, you heard lots of people screaming the "oh that sucks, android is going to be flop just like linux", or "android doesn't have any apps, so it's going fail", but instead, people built apps. Initially googletv will have nothing, but over time, the apps will come. The apps that I like will not be the same apps that you like. You probably won't play sudoku on your tv... but I might You probably won't be content to catch the latest News headlines on your TV, but I might.

As I've said, I won't get a get first gen googletv device, but I can see where it's attractive, once the price drops, and the apps arrive.

[Suntan]

Originally Posted by stuckless

But I guess that's my point... if you and I had this discussion 2 years about smartphones, then I'd be "I just don't get it. I have a phone to talk to people, that's it". But, as much as I hate to admit it, my feelings about a smartphone has changed

That wasn’t the point I was making. Quite the opposite in fact.

Prior to getting a smartphone (even prior to real smartphones being available) I knew of a number of apps that I wanted available on the phone in my pocket. However, after years of having computers and game consoles hooked to a TV, I can’t say as I can think of any “apps” that I have a desire for that aren’t specifically about playing video.

-Suntan

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by stuckless

But I guess that's my point... if you and I had this discussion 2 years about smartphones, then I'd be "I just don't get it. I have a phone to talk to people, that's it". But, as much as I hate to admit it, my feelings about a smartphone has changed

OT, but for some reason I want an EVO (or something) but I can't for the life of me figure out what I'd actually use it for.

As I've said, I won't get a get first gen googletv device, but I can see where it's attractive, once the price drops, and the apps arrive.

I think part of the problem is a lot of us are "I'll believe it when I see it", and frankly, I don't think Google has done a good job explaining what GoogleTV actually is.

What I see on the internets, the videos, the blog posts, etc, it seems as though GoogleTV is a product. As a product, IMO, GoogleTV is a failure. Everything they've shown so far is IMO pathetic and it looks like a kludge. The Dish Network "integration" is the best example of this failure IMO.

It seems to me that Google has totally failed at getting point across that GoogleTV is "Android for TVs", that it's an OS/Development platform.

I personally can't see a point to buying "GoogleTV" the product. Now a new Samsung LED LCD running GoogleTV for the OS, for which I can download/install service provider (Netflix, Hulu, etc) "apps" without waiting for Samsung to add them themselves, that's more interesting.

And if we start seeing TVs, DVD players, DVRs, STBs running app-enabled GoogleTV under the hood that's more interesting.

[brainbone]

Originally Posted by Suntan

I can’t say as I can think of any “apps” that I have a desire for that aren’t specifically about playing video.

I think the vast majority of the apps I would want would be about playing video -- and that's exactly what GoogeTV hopes to offer.

Boxee, SageTV, Roku -- they are limited by the number of developers they can attract, DRM, licencing, minimum user-base, NDAs, etc. Would Netflix develop an app for SageTV?? Of course not. Could SageTV get their services on a Roku device without paying through the nose? nope. Is the train-wreck that is Boxee going to attract professional development/content? Doesn't appear so.

GoogleTV potentially does away with all of this. Hulu, Netflix, ABC, Pandora, etc. all have the same ability to get their content/app on GoogleTV as does the little guy, like SageTV -- or even you, if you had content you wanted to provide. While that may not seem valuable to you, it is.

That said, it does require that GoogeTV be accepted by the consumer. Even in this climate where almost everyone is looking for a way to eliminate or reduce their cable bill with online content, I don't think a $300 STB will do it.