Going digital and need advice

[Karen0302]

Comcast in my area is dumping their analog and going digital.

My current system uses 3 Hauppauge analog encoders. The recorded shows are available on any PC in the house using Sage Clients and in the den via an HD-200.

I need advice on how to manage the transition to digital. What encoder cards to use if any are available? How do you deal with 3 set top boxes? Do I even need set top boxes if I don't use any premium channels (I use extended basic).

As you can see, I'm pretty much lost. Any advice is very welcome.

Karen

[KarylFStein]

I just went through this. You don't need to chuck the encoder cards. However, you *do* need the STB/DTA even with just extended basic, (I have that too).

Comcast will give you up to one STB and two DTAs for no monthly charge. (I think they *can* start charging after two years, but not really sure about all that. For now, I'm not getting any box rental fees.) The DTAs only go up to channel 99 while the STB will grab all channels in the plan they'll move you to, (same cost as extended basic, but adds a few things).

The STB and DTAs they sent me have the regular "cable" output. The STB adds composite, (the single RCA plug), but I'm not using it. What you'll do is plug the STB/DTAs into the wall with the cord currently going into your capture cards, then plug the STB/DTAs into the capture cards. This is an analog signal at this point.

Now the fun part. You need some way to change the channel on the STB/DTAs. I bought a USB-URIT and a couple IR transmitters, (also called a blaster--a little cord with something at the end you can stick directly on the front of the STB/DTA). You're looking at maybe $65 for all that. I personally only have one STB and one DTA, so I don't have to worry about zones on the USB-UIRT. You will need to since you will have three boxes to control.

You will then need a couple splitters as the USB-UIRT only lets you plug one IR transmitter into it, (not sure, but maybe another $10?). One splitter should be stereo to two stereo and the other stereo to separate left and right channels. There's plenty of posts in the forums about the hardware needed. Out of the stereo-stereo splitter, plug in the IR transmitter for the STB and the other splitter. Out of the other splitter, plug in the IR transmitters for the DTAs. After you stick the transmitter on the DTAs, it's recommended you cover them with black tape or something so the signal going to one doesn't get picked up by the other, (again, see the forums).

Finally (!) you have to install the USB-UIRT drivers (probably best to have SageTV shut down for that) and reconfigure your tuners in SageTV. SageTV will walk you through learning the remote codes and all. The tuners will stay analog TV, but you need to select that they are controlled by an external tuner. You'll be asked what channel to tune the capture card to, which is probably 3, (the DTAs have a switch on the back that let you select channel 3 or 4, my STB only outputs to channel 3). Then do your channel lineup stuff as usual.

Oh, when you first get the boxes from Comcast, you'll have to plug them all into the wall and go through the activation process. Mine failed and I had to talk to customer service and they were able to do it manually. Then you'll be told to wait 45 minutes before trying to use them.

It took me about four hours total to complete the "upgrade", but it was fairly easy. I'm not sure what complexity the zones bit adds, but again there's stuff in the forums about that...

[Karen0302]

Finally (!) you have to install the USB-UIRT drivers (probably best to have SageTV shut down for that) and reconfigure your tuners in SageTV. SageTV will walk you through learning the remote codes and all. The tuners will stay analog TV, but you need to select that they are controlled by an external tuner. You'll be asked what channel to tune the capture card to, which is probably 3, (the DTAs have a switch on the back that let you select channel 3 or 4, my STB only outputs to channel 3). Then do your channel lineup stuff as usual.

Thanks for the reply. I followed everything until I got to the part I copied above. What I don't understand is how Sage knows to receive the signal from the STB/DTA on channel 3 or 4. I've never seen a parameter ins Sage to set that. Also, what about if I replaced an analog tuner with a digital one? Would that help matters? What is the difference between an STB and a DTA?

Thanks!

Karen

[KarylFStein]

1) Having a digital capture card won't help UNLESS you plan to try putting up an antenna to get your local channels in HD, or want to get the local channels in ClearQAM from the cable. For ClearQAM, you should get the local channels, (maybe the HD versions too). Others get more, but I don't trust my cable provider to send anything more than the locals in SD in the future, so put up an antenna.

2) A DTA is like one of those old-school cable boxes that just changes the channel and feeds it to your TV--no VOD, EPG, etc. The STB has more "smarts".

3) To get the Ch3/4 screen, set up a new data source, select TV Tuner like usual, then select "Use external Cable or Satellite receiver to tune channel". It will then ask you what channel to tune your tuner card to. (Note: I found what I think are some bugs in SageTV at this point and had to restart SageTV, set up the source again, but this time instead of selecting TV Tuner, there was a new option: Tv Tuner Channel 3. Selecting the latter let me finish up the tuner setup.)

[davephan]

Originally Posted by KarylFStein

Comcast will give you up to one STB and two DTAs for no monthly charge. (I think they *can* start charging after two years, but not really sure about all that. For now, I'm not getting any box rental fees.) The DTAs only go up to channel 99 while the STB will grab all channels in the plan they'll move you to, (same cost as extended basic, but adds a few things).

Comcast is also dropping most, but not all analog signals in my area. Only the lower channels in the lowest tier are still analog. Are you sure they offered you one free set top box and two free DTAs? Comcast only offered me two free DTAs. Each DTA above that is about $2 a month. No free set top boxes, they are $7 a month. I already have three HD set top boxes, $10 a box each for the second and third box.

It would be easier to hook up the DTA with a dual analog tuner with one RF connector for each input or separate analog tuners. I have a HVR-2250 dual tuner which does analog, digital OTA, or clearQAM. The cable coax feeds into each DTA. One DTA is set to channel 3 output, the other to channel 4 output. I combine the two outputs into a SC-3 signal combiner box which connects to the single RF connector on the HVR-2250. A simple splitter does not work to combine the signals, both signals cancel each other out. I just happened to have a signal combiner laying around for years that I never used. I hooked it up, and it worked great.

Setup the analog tuner to always tune channel 3 or 4, depending on which DTA is feeding the tuner. The USB-UIRT controls the channels on each DTA box.

The USB-UIRT can control 3 set top boxes, or more if they use different IR codes. My zones 1 & 2 each control a DTA box. The main USB-UIRT IR controls a HD cable box. I could control more boxes with each IR zone if I wanted to add more HD cable boxes. For example one IR zone can control a DTA box and a HD cable box as long as the boxes are optically isolated from other boxes. So, I could control 3 DTAs and 3 HD cable boxes with only one USB-UIRT.

Shade Blue posted some great diagrams for the USB-UIRT which will really clear things up for you how to setup the USB-UIRT for multiple zones. I'm attaching those diagrams here.

If you need IR files for the DTA boxes using Zone 1 and 2, I could post them for you.

Dave

[sic0048]

Originally Posted by davephan

Are you sure they offered you one free set top box and two free DTAs? Comcast only offered me two free DTAs. Each DTA above that is about $2 a month. No free set top boxes, they are $7 a month. I already have three HD set top boxes, $10 a box each for the second and third box.

Dave

I think what the poster meant was that you typically get 1 free STB with your normal cable subscription. With the analog to digital conversion going on right now, they are offering 2 DTAs without a monthly fee. So together you should get 1 STB and 2 DTAs without paying a monthly fee.

Since the OP is looking for a three tuner replacement, she should be able to have three digital boxes from Comcast without having to pay any extra monthly fees. Then she just needs a way to capture the output of those boxes. Either with an older analog card recording the composite or S-Video output, or a Hauppauge HD-PVR recording the composite, S-Video or component video (to get HD quality recordings).

Of course if Comcast is still going to broadcast the major local networks in unencrypted QAM, then a QAM tuner (like the HDHR) could be used. Those tuners do not require a STB (or DTA) but can only record the unencrypted QAM channels being broadcast. With Comcast doing their conversion, most people have found that after the conversion there are few if any unencrypted QAM channels being broadcast.

[davephan]

Originally Posted by sic0048

I think what the poster meant was that you typically get 1 free STB with your normal cable subscription. With the analog to digital conversion going on right now, they are offering 2 DTAs without a monthly fee. So together you should get 1 STB and 2 DTAs without paying a monthly fee.

Ok. I understand. I just wanted to make sure Comcast was telling me the correct information. I have HD service, and my box that is included is a HD cablebox, plus I pay for two extra HD cable boxes, plus I got two free DTA boxes.

Dave

[KarylFStein]

Originally Posted by sic0048

I think what the poster meant was that you typically get 1 free STB with your normal cable subscription. With the analog to digital conversion going on right now, they are offering 2 DTAs without a monthly fee. So together you should get 1 STB and 2 DTAs without paying a monthly fee.

I didn't have a STB before, so maybe that's why they offered that for free along with the DTAs.

Originally Posted by sic0048

Since the OP is looking for a three tuner replacement, she should be able to have three digital boxes from Comcast without having to pay any extra monthly fees. Then she just needs a way to capture the output of those boxes. Either with an older analog card recording the composite or S-Video output, or a Hauppauge HD-PVR recording the composite, S-Video or component video (to get HD quality recordings).

The STB they sent me just had composite and RF outputs. No SVIDEO or firewire for channel changing . I could probably complain and get a better model, but not worth it. I do notice that the picture quality is slightly less than my prior straight analog signal, (did some unscientific tests). For example, if you look at someone's shirt, it's a little more jagged around the edge. But I only see that when really close to the screen, so no big deal. I mean, it's SD anyway...

Originally Posted by sic0048

Of course if Comcast is still going to broadcast the major local networks in unencrypted QAM, then a QAM tuner (like the HDHR) could be used. Those tuners do not require a STB (or DTA) but can only record the unencrypted QAM channels being broadcast. With Comcast doing their conversion, most people have found that after the conversion there are few if any unencrypted QAM channels being broadcast.

That's why I'm sticking with digital tuners only for OTA. Even though I was getting ClearQAM signals for my (basic extended) lineup, I don't trust Comcast to keep them clear. This is because in the letter they sent me, it said that you'd still need a STB/DTA even if your TV has a QAM tuner built-in. They may just say that for those who have more than extended basic, (or whatever they call it now--digital starter or something), and it's easier to just say everyone need a STB, but who knows. I haven't checked recently to see what's still in the clear...

[davephan]

Originally Posted by KarylFStein

That's why I'm sticking with digital tuners only for OTA. Even though I was getting ClearQAM signals for my (basic extended) lineup, I don't trust Comcast to keep them clear. This is because in the letter they sent me, it said that you'd still need a STB/DTA even if your TV has a QAM tuner built-in. They may just say that for those who have more than extended basic, (or whatever they call it now--digital starter or something), and it's easier to just say everyone need a STB, but who knows. I haven't checked recently to see what's still in the clear...

Other reasons to use separate digital tuners for local OTA channels are the programs are still recorded during cable outages, the quality is better from the OTA signals than from cable, and the number of recording conflicts are reduced since OTA recordings are offloaded to dedicated OTA digital tuners.

Dave