EE Server build - advice requested

[techhome]

Long-time HTPCer, new to Sage - Energy Efficient server desired
I intend to convert my combo HTPC/file server to a dedicated headless server. All TV's will have HD200s.

Current setup is a combo file server/HTPC with 8 hot swap SATA bays (JBOD). It is a P4 2.8C full ATX board w/ Radeon 9600 graphics, running XP MCE 32-bit. This machine, pulls about 130w and does the following:

1. Squeezebox Server
2. Playon Server
3. SageTV Server
4. SageTV Frontend to DLP HDTV via DVi to HDMI, DD5.1 to receiver via Toslink

In addition to this TV, I have (2) additional rooms, served up via HD200s. One was originally a MediaMVP, but I sold it after I found my server did not have sufficient horsepower to transcode.

I thought I was ok for HD playback, but PQ on recent NFL playoff games was a bit stuttery, is that a word?? Anyway, time for corrective action...

Upgrade plans:
1. Convert HTPC/fileserver to dedicated headless server
2. Buy one more HD200 for the DLP HDTV

For my headless server, I'd like it to continue to do items 1 - 3 and maybe comskip, but will forgo comskip if it has a big negative impact on required comuting power, energy efficiency (EE) and carbon emissions. I will also configure whatever power management settings that I can to maximize EE. Ok, on to my questions/options:

Option 1 - convert P4 machine to headless server, install 2nd NIC and connect HD200s directly to the server in an attempt to allow it to S3 and be awakened by network traffic from the HD200's (Note to SageTV: Please implement magic packet server wakeup from Sage extenders!)

Option 2 - Server upgrade plan-A - I have a Athlon64 X2 3800+ Windsor AM2 (60w) and 2GB DDR2 667 sitting around. Need a motherboard to complete the build and considering this one. As above, I'd install a 2nd NIC to try and get S3/remote wake playing nicely.

Option 2 - Server upgrade plan-B - Atom 330 dual core. The Supermicro X7SLA-H comes equipped with dual NICS and will be very EE. But, does it have sufficient hp to simultaneously run Playon, Squeezebox server and Sage server?

Questions:

1. Feedback on above...
2. Impact of comskip on above
3. Best OS - Linux is a non-starter for Playon, I have WinXP Pro and XPMCE 32-bit, any reason to change? BTW, I've pretty much ruled out WHS for its reported lack of EE power management capabilities and its inability to be backed-up. In my mind that leaves XP 64-bit and Win7.

Thanks!

Doug

[ToadMazter]

I'm moving from headless 7MC system to a headless Sage setup, and pulled the trigger an hour ago on the HP EX495 WHS. It is an additional $60 off through tomorrow at NewEgg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16859105563

I purchased a couple extra 1.5TB WD Green drives to go along with it, and the entire kit and kaboodle should arrive tomorrow.

Here is a good review of the unit, and I am happy to see that max power usage is only 70W with 45 being average: http://www.mediasmartserver.net/2009...490-and-ex495/

Adam

[techhome]

Thanks Adam,
I love SageTV, but would also love to see them implement energy efficient power management settings that are on by default. My MCE2k5 system would not override the windows power management settings just because the UI was open. Under MCE, if content is being played, power management is deactivated. However, if no content is being consumed, screensaver, video shut-down and standby/hibernate timers are active.

In my case, my family doesn't have much TV time. If I knew I could configure my server to timeout to S3 and remotely wake it via my Squeezebox (works today via magic packet WOL) and HD200's, I'd lean towards a higher powered system that could run Playon at it's highest quality, transcode, comskip, etc. I don't see the sense in my media server running 24/7, however.

BTW,
I'm attending a SmartGrid confernence at NIST headquarters, today and a presenter stated that the aggregate consumption of TVs in the US consume the equivalent power from one coal-fired plant - when turned off. That's not right and I don't wish to be a part of this waste with a 24/7 media server.

Ok, I'll get off my soap-box. Anyone else care to chime in on my original post?

Doug

[ToadMazter]

You bring up a good point regarding running 24/7. I was under the assumption that WHS supports S3 standby... but I'll need to research. My hope is to only have it running if there is an active extender connected or a recording happening. With my old MCE2k5/VMC/7MC setup, S3 worked (after considerable tweaking/testing) and would wake via my 360 extenders.

[ToadMazter]

I found this for WHS "sleep management":
http://addins.home-server-blog.de/ve.../lightsout/#en

I'll give it a whirl in the next few days and provide feedback as it relates to Sage.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by techhome

For my headless server, I'd like it to continue to do items 1 - 3 and maybe comskip, but will forgo comskip if it has a big negative impact on required comuting power, energy efficiency (EE) and carbon emissions.

This is a new way at looking at things - comskipping the NFL game used 1kWh which caused 18 pounds of CO2 to be emitted.

[thomaszoo]

Originally Posted by techhome

This machine, pulls about 130w and does the following:

1. Squeezebox Server
2. Playon Server
3. SageTV Server
4. SageTV Frontend to DLP HDTV via DVi to HDMI, DD5.1 to receiver via Toslink

Upgrade plans:
1. Convert HTPC/fileserver to dedicated headless server
2. Buy one more HD200 for the DLP HDTV

For my headless server, I'd like it to continue to do items 1 - 3 and maybe comskip, but will forgo comskip if it has a big negative impact on required comuting power, energy efficiency (EE) and carbon emissions. I will also configure whatever power management settings that I can to maximize EE. Ok, on to my questions/options:

Option 1 - convert P4 machine to headless server, install 2nd NIC and connect HD200s directly to the server in an attempt to allow it to S3 and be awakened by network traffic from the HD200's (Note to SageTV: Please implement magic packet server wakeup from Sage extenders!)

Option 2 - Server upgrade plan-A - I have a Athlon64 X2 3800+ Windsor AM2 (60w) and 2GB DDR2 667 sitting around. Need a motherboard to complete the build and considering this one. As above, I'd install a 2nd NIC to try and get S3/remote wake playing nicely.

Option 2 - Server upgrade plan-B - Atom 330 dual core. The Supermicro X7SLA-H comes equipped with dual NICS and will be very EE. But, does it have sufficient hp to simultaneously run Playon, Squeezebox server and Sage server?

Questions:

1. Feedback on above...
2. Impact of comskip on above
3. Best OS - Linux is a non-starter for Playon, I have WinXP Pro and XPMCE 32-bit, any reason to change? BTW, I've pretty much ruled out WHS for its reported lack of EE power management capabilities and its inability to be backed-up. In my mind that leaves XP 64-bit and Win7.

Thanks!

Doug

My Sage server is running on the Atom 330 dual core and overall I am pretty happy with it. I have not checked actual watts, but I know it can't be much.

It will not run Playon in my experience. This is a minor issue for me since we seldom use Playon; when we do, I just crank up my desktop and it is all seamless. Comskipping is actually much better than I ever expected. The 330 acts like it has 4 cores so each instance of Comskip only uses about 25%. And for my HDHR HD OTA recordings it keeps up in real time. The only place it lags is with the HD-PVR. If you don't plan to watch your HD-PVR recordings until the next day it shouldn't be a problem. On the plus side it has allowed me better control of both my TV and receiver via serial port.

On my previous HTPC build I used my USBUIRT and programmable remote to wake the PC on command. It was more of a problem when I bought my second HD100; the server is in the center of my house so it meant that I had to wake it manually.

Bottom line is there will not be a perfect solution; just figure out what works for you.

Wayne

[techhome]

Originally Posted by wayner

This is a new way at looking at things - comskipping the NFL game used 1kWh which caused 18 pounds of CO2 to be emitted.

Nothing against comskip, I've read thru the "What CPU" thread and it seems a bit crazy to have a high wattage 24/7 media server in order to run comskip and Playon. It's one thing to have a 150w server up and running for a couple of 3-hour games over the course of a week, another thing altogether for it to be running 24/7 or 168-hours during that same week. Hopefully, it will draw under 150w when idle by spinning down drives and power managing the idle CPU, but it would be best if it goes into S3, suspend to RAM (fans off). My PCs will wake from S3 in just a couple of seconds. Here's my wish list of power management enhancements for SageTV:

1. SageTV PC frontend and PC extender should only override Windows power management timers when media is being consumed. Whether the Sage UI is open or closed should NOT be the trigger.
2. Upon power-on, Sage extenders should send WOL magic packets to the Sage Server that is configured for auto-connection; thus allowing the server to utilize S3.

It good that Sage already supports wake from S3 to record. If Sage supported the above, I'd spring for a 90-watt quad core, configure S3, comskip and Playon. But, if my only reasonable solution is to leave the server on 24/7 then I'll likely go for a much lower power solution.

My kids tend to turn off the TV without pressing stop on the Sage remote. In this case, both Sage and MCE will unfortunately assume the channel is being watched and will constantly write to the recording hdd, override all power management, etc. until I find it in that state. Perhaps a solution would be for Sage to add a user-configurable 3-hour or so "auto-off" timer that resets whenever the remote, mouse or kb is used. Thus, if after 3-hours, there is no channel change or any other input, the recording will stop and the windows power management timers will start.

Finally, I've decided upon JBOD over RAID for several reasons. Other than lower energy consumption, a 5-disk array generates considerable noise and heat. In my JBOD configuration, all disks will spin down when not needed. If I am consuming content, only the hdd storing these files spins-up. To overcome lack of data redundancy, my server has a dedicated backup drive that performs scheduled automatic backup of my mp3 collection, photos and other personal media. Recorded TV, movies, etc are not backed-up.

Doug

[techhome]

Originally Posted by thomaszoo

My Sage server is running on the Atom 330 dual core and overall I am pretty happy with it. I have not checked actual watts, but I know it can't be much.

It will not run Playon in my experience. This is a minor issue for me since we seldom use Playon; when we do, I just crank up my desktop and it is all seamless. Comskipping is actually much better than I ever expected. The 330 acts like it has 4 cores so each instance of Comskip only uses about 25%. And for my HDHR HD OTA recordings it keeps up in real time. The only place it lags is with the HD-PVR. If you don't plan to watch your HD-PVR recordings until the next day it shouldn't be a problem. On the plus side it has allowed me better control of both my TV and receiver via serial port.

On my previous HTPC build I used my USBUIRT and programmable remote to wake the PC on command. It was more of a problem when I bought my second HD100; the server is in the center of my house so it meant that I had to wake it manually.

Bottom line is there will not be a perfect solution; just figure out what works for you.

Wayne

Thanks Wayne, this is helpful. I currently use (2) HDHRs on comcast cable. For now, I get plenty of channels in clear QAM (fingers-crossed), so no current need for a HD-PVR. I've decided to buy the ESC ATX motherboard and rebuild the server around my 60w 3800+ X2 core. I'll install a 2nd NIC configured to wake on any network traffic, connect only HD200 extenders and get a feel for the WAF for wake from S3 in such a manner, if I can even get it to work.

Doug

[thomaszoo]

Originally Posted by techhome

My kids tend to turn off the TV without pressing stop on the Sage remote. In this case, both Sage and MCE will unfortunately assume the channel is being watched and will constantly write to the recording hdd, override all power management, etc. until I find it in that state. Perhaps a solution would be for Sage to add a user-configurable 3-hour or so "auto-off" timer that resets whenever the remote, mouse or kb is used. Thus, if after 3-hours, there is no channel change or any other input, the recording will stop and the windows power management timers will start.


Doug

If your setup allows it, you could use a USB-UIRT to detect when the TV is turned off and use that to stop Sage.

Wayne