Need video card recommendation

[davephan]

I am building up a new SageTV computer. The new computer will have the following:

Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 system board
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128362

Intel I-7 950, quad core, 3.06 gigs
https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/M...px?ID=12509946

Corsair power supply, 850 watts
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139011

3 gigs RAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820134657

I plan to setup the system on Windows XP Pro, reusing my full tower case, hard drives, and tuner cards on my new system. Later, the same system will be rebuilt again (same hardware, new OS) when I switch to Windows 7, assuming the bugs be shaken out in about a year. The new SageTV computer will run headless. I need some advise which video card I should use for the system. My old SageTV computer's video card is:

Gigabyte GV-NX85T512HP GeForce 8500 GT 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814125065

I might also re-use the old Gigabyte GV-NX85T512HP video card on the new system, or buy a new video card. Although, I will need to buy a new video card for either my new SageTV system, or my old SageTV dual core 3 gig system which will replace my old, slow, Athlon XP 1800+ general purpose web browsing computer, which is about 7 years old.

Does anyone have any recommendations which video card I should purchase for either the SageTV system or the old SageTV system? The general purpose computer is only used for web browsing, video editing, and word processing, no gaming.

Dave

[sdsean]

i'd recommend an ATI HD3870 or bigger. . . (although that should be plenty).

I used to only do nvidia, but the power requirements and pricing has begun to turn me off. . .

I had an HD3870 and it was great. . . did all the hardware accelartion on the card and as a bonus if you want audio also over hdmi, it works right out of the box (with drivers, unlike nvidia).

you are going to want more ram at some point and i recommend windows 7 as well. . .but that can wait. .

[davephan]

Originally Posted by sdsean

i'd recommend an ATI HD3870 or bigger. . . (although that should be plenty).

I used to only do nvidia, but the power requirements and pricing has begun to turn me off. . .

I had an HD3870 and it was great. . . did all the hardware accelartion on the card and as a bonus if you want audio also over hdmi, it works right out of the box (with drivers, unlike nvidia).

you are going to want more ram at some point and i recommend windows 7 as well. . .but that can wait. .

Could you send me links to the ATI HD3870 and ATI4890 video cards. How does it compare to the ATI HD4890 that you are using now?

Your using a faster I7 than I ordered. How long does it take to process files with comskip and compress video files using that processor? You also have a fast 10k OS drive. I thought about using a SSD drive for the OS. How much do you think the fast OS drive helped? How much memory are you normally using? Have you run into any problems with Windows 7 64-bit?

I am planning on switching to Windows 7 64-bit and adding more memory in the future. I'll also have to switch from Ghost to Acronis for imaging, since Ghost doesn't support Windows 7 64-bit, and Acronis may be a better overall product.

Dave

[sdsean]

HD3870: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16814102732R

HD4890: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102841

RAM is only 512 on the 3870, and the core clock speed is a bit slower, but both use a 256Bit interface which is key. . .

If you play games on the machine as well, you'll want the beefy card, but for video. . . the 3870 (yes even HD) is just fine

Don't worry too much about the CPU, you'll be fine with what you got so long as you stick with i7s and not i5s.

For the OS drive, i have used the raptors for a while now. . . however I don't use my os drive for recording directly b/c I can never seem to find a way to format it with 64KB allocation. . .

That being said, its a pretty big win. . . and i highly recommend it. . .but don't go to solid state until the prices drop. The current medium to low end ssds are all MLC (SLC types are much better, longer lasting but also way more expensive).

The only problem I have with Win 7 so far is the same issue i had on Vista 64. I can't seem to use EVR or old scholl VMR9 rendering. I have to use overlay. I have seen talk that this may be an ATI related issue. . .but I have also seen talk that its simply codec issues and/or bugs with Sage.

It doesn't bother me to use overlay though for now till they get the kinks worked out. . .picture quality is still outstanding on my DLP 46" 720p screen.

[CollinR]

If I were you I would either pic another mainboard with onboard graphics or just buy whatever is cheap. If it's a headless system all you need is to be able to run through configs, really I use RDP more then anything else on mine.

If tech spec were an issue for me it would be, power consumption (heat generated). the rest I couldn't care less about.

[Oats]

Originally Posted by CollinR

If I were you I would either pic another mainboard with onboard graphics or just buy whatever is cheap. If it's a headless system all you need is to be able to run through configs, really I use RDP more then anything else on mine.

If tech spec were an issue for me it would be, power consumption (heat generated). the rest I couldn't care less about.

I agree, if you aren't going to use the PC as a client then there is no reason to spend the money on a video card. Onboard isn't an option with socket 1366 so you will have to get a dedicated card. I would look for something fanless as well as low power consumption.

Your selected power supply is overkill for the system. That much power isn't needed unless you are running dual video cards. If you go with a low power video card I would recommend Corsair's 450w, if you feel you need a decent graphics card like a 4850 I would go with their 550w.

I don't know how much of a difference an SSD would make since you are using extenders. It is very possible that the extender is the bottleneck using regular drives, if that is the case than an SSD would not be any faster. I would try to find somebody with first hand experience using an SSD + extender before buying an SSD.

If you do go SSD there is nothing wrong with MLC based drives. Their read speed and response time is the same as SLC, but their write speed is around 30% slower. The biggest improvement people notice with SSD is how things load almost instantly and everything feels snappier, which is because of response time and read speed.

[Polypro]

Silent GT240?

I love my silent 9600GT

P

[CollinR]

My experience with SSD didn't have any noticable improvment in SageTV, I saw boot time improvements. Then again I was more looking at making an embedded solution. You guys are talking about using basically the same OS but on an SSD which is somewhat different. My goal was more about write protecting and making the server more robust. In the end I ditched the whole thing and just got a second box so I can swap if need be.

I also wouldn't worry too much about an overly powerful power supply, your HDDs will take power and you WILL need to cover them. Also for longevity you don't want to exceed 70% of it's rated output if possible.


Basically the best thing to do is look at the bottlenecks in your current server and open those, eventually it will come down to consumer storage. If you aren't CPU bound it shouldn't become the focus of the upgrade. Commskip isn't that huge of a CPU hit, it's not a huge hit to disk IO either but it all adds up. now that you are headless, if it doesn't negatively impact SageTV you can forget it. I know a little valley could run 2 SD tuners (hardware encode), SageTV headless to HD200s to the limit of it's NIC. It would really be a very nice mini system but so many need more expansion.

[Greg]

Originally Posted by davephan

I am building up a new SageTV computer. The new computer will have the following:

Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 system board
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128362

Intel I-7 950, quad core, 3.06 gigs
https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/M...px?ID=12509946

Corsair power supply, 850 watts
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139011

3 gigs RAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820134657

Dave

Originally Posted by sdsean

Don't worry too much about the CPU, you'll be fine with what you got so long as you stick with i7s and not i5s.

Why an i7 or even an i5 for a SageTV server? I'm looking at the AMD Athlon II X4 620 OR 630, maybe even the 605e for a server. The resean I ask is I'm new to this (Sage and computers in general), but everything that I researched so far tells me what I've been looking at is enough. What would the improvements be over the Athlon X4 solution?

Originally Posted by Oats

I don't know how much of a difference an SSD would make since you are using extenders. It is very possible that the extender is the bottleneck using regular drives, if that is the case than an SSD would not be any faster. I would try to find somebody with first hand experience using an SSD + extender before buying an SSD.

How would bottlenecks manifest itself: video stuttering, etc. or just process time for commercial skipping?

Thanks,
Greg

[Oats]

Originally Posted by Greg

Why an i7 or even an i5 for a SageTV server? I'm looking at the AMD Athlon II X4 620 OR 630, maybe even the 605e for a server. The resean I ask is I'm new to this (Sage and computers in general), but everything that I researched so far tells me what I've been looking at is enough. What would the improvements be over the Athlon X4 solution?

How would bottlenecks manifest itself: video stuttering, etc. or just process time for commercial skipping?

Thanks,
Greg

i7 will take less time than on a similar AMD setup to convert video. I imagine commercial skipping would be faster as well. How much faster I don't know but there are reviews out there that compare the two. I doubt the difference is that large. It really comes down to what you want, the best performance (i7) or the best performance/price ratio (I would assume AMD but I haven't done any research to back that up).

Bottlenecks just makes things slower, but everything still works fine. What I was saying about SSD and extenders is if the extender can only process data at 10kb/s, and your current hard drive can provide the extender with 30kb/s of data, there would be no improvement getting a hard drive that can provide 100kb/s of data as it will still only use 10kb/s. (These are just random numbers I made up by the way)

[Greg]

Originally Posted by Oats

i7 will take less time than on a similar AMD setup to convert video. I imagine commercial skipping would be faster as well. How much faster I don't know but there are reviews out there that compare the two. I doubt the difference is that large. It really comes down to what you want, the best performance (i7) or the best performance/price ratio (I would assume AMD but I haven't done any research to back that up).

Bottlenecks just makes things slower, but everything still works fine. What I was saying about SSD and extenders is if the extender can only process data at 10kb/s, and your current hard drive can provide the extender with 30kb/s of data, there would be no improvement getting a hard drive that can provide 100kb/s of data as it will still only use 10kb/s. (These are just random numbers I made up by the way)

Thanks............I understand.

Greg

[davephan]

Originally Posted by CollinR

My experience with SSD didn't have any noticable improvment in SageTV, I saw boot time improvements. Then again I was more looking at making an embedded solution. You guys are talking about using basically the same OS but on an SSD which is somewhat different. My goal was more about write protecting and making the server more robust. In the end I ditched the whole thing and just got a second box so I can swap if need be.

I also wouldn't worry too much about an overly powerful power supply, your HDDs will take power and you WILL need to cover them. Also for longevity you don't want to exceed 70% of it's rated output if possible.


Basically the best thing to do is look at the bottlenecks in your current server and open those, eventually it will come down to consumer storage. If you aren't CPU bound it shouldn't become the focus of the upgrade. Commskip isn't that huge of a CPU hit, it's not a huge hit to disk IO either but it all adds up. now that you are headless, if it doesn't negatively impact SageTV you can forget it. I know a little valley could run 2 SD tuners (hardware encode), SageTV headless to HD200s to the limit of it's NIC. It would really be a very nice mini system but so many need more expansion.

I found a good article on SSDs that compares slc, single level cell verses mlc, multi level cell. I don't understand why the price is so high for the memoright 128 GB SSD at $3399.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/show....php?p=3036991

There is a OZC SLC SSD that is 60 GB, which is a smaller drive, but more than enough for the operating system and programs, priced at $409.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820227484

Maybe it would make more sense to get the OZC SLC SSD 60 GB drive for the general purpose computer, which is used interactively, to speed up the response time verses put an SSD in the headless SageTV computer.

The power supply might be a bit overkill, but it has 12 SATA drive connectors.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139011

I want to reduce the Comskip and video compression processing times. I think the move to the quad core i-7 3.06 gig processor should help verses the E6850 dual core 3.0 gig processor I have now.

My old system board has all the slots occupied and limited to only 4 SATA drives and two IDE drives. The new system board has a limit of 10 SATA drives. I plan to add more drives later, so I can replicate the video files I want to protect from a single drive failure.

A backup system for the SageTV computer is an excellent idea, but not a cheap idea. I plan to build up a second system with the same system board to replace my general purpose computer. That system will be used to recover the SageTV system if there is a serious hardware failure, such as the system board.

I have still not decided which video card to buy.


Dave

[CollinR]

I forget SDD and eyeball your storage. We have the same combined problem...

I have:

SageTV writing to the disk your new incoming video
(Every bit you watch is written to disk, often not in order.)
Commskip reading the disk to check the video, make sure playnice is enabled ( -n )
(Has to run all over the disk as it reads it, in the same order as played back.)
Commskip writing to the disk it's chapter file, whatever other output.
(Every bit read again!)
SageTVTranscoder is reading the video to process
(Mine is limited I assume yours too so say half the bits read yet again!)
SageTVTranscoder is now writing the data from above to different location
(There is no single place large enough to write it in one chunck, so run all over again!)
SageTVTranscoder is now deleting the data original file
(Was fragmented to begin with, not a big deal but you get more spead out available space.)
SageTV reading the disk to stream to clients
(Same bit watched by multiple clients too?)


Check your current disk fragmentation.

Once you get past 4-6 tuners and you have a siginificant cable/sat package you can put a serious hurt on some HDDs. You need to start thinking about how to make that head move less, generate few file fragments upfront so you need not deal with them later. Spead the head seeks across multiple spindles, this is the slowest part of your whole damn PC. SATA, IDE whatever the head moving it slow as hell by comparison.

Put the $ for SSDs into more spindles and divide that load across more drives. Or look at server solutions that allow for high throughput. My next system will not use consumer stuff on the storage side. Dunno what I will use but probably multipath.