Sage / Frey at CES?

[pjpjpjpj]

I know I'm the voice of the ever-dwindling minority, but there are some (possibly quite a few, if not "many"?) SageTV users who have old dinosaur server PCs and who get along quite nicely because they only view TV on extenders. While it appears that the majority of SageTV users are in the computer biz, are completely fine with spending hundreds or thousands on building new PCs regularly, and are in the "must have the latest, greatest, and fastest of everything immediately" camp (don't you people have wives?? ), there are a few of us who would prefer to not have to buy or build a new server (or, more specifically, not have to go through the migration headaches of getting the whole shebang moved), just because Sage's new UI required more beef simply to make it look prettier.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with Sage creating a shinier, glossier UI (unless it kills off every current STVi and requires them all to be re-written). I just don't know that I want to spend all the money on a new PC (along with the likely cost of buying new SageTV 7.0, since I doubt that jump will be a free upgrade), just for looks and nothing else.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

I know I'm the voice of the ever-dwindling minority, but there are some (possibly quite a few, if not "many"?) SageTV users who have old dinosaur server PCs and who get along quite nicely because they only view TV on extenders. While it appears that the majority of SageTV users are in the computer biz, are completely fine with spending hundreds or thousands on building new PCs regularly, and are in the "must have the latest, greatest, and fastest of everything immediately" camp (don't you people have wives?? ), there are a few of us who would prefer to not have to buy or build a new server (or, more specifically, not have to go through the migration headaches of getting the whole shebang moved), just because Sage's new UI required more beef simply to make it look prettier.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with Sage creating a shinier, glossier UI (unless it kills off every current STVi and requires them all to be re-written). I just don't know that I want to spend all the money on a new PC (along with the likely cost of buying new SageTV 7.0, since I doubt that jump will be a free upgrade), just for looks and nothing else.

Then you really shouldn't have anything to worry about as any new UI that they design will run quite well on the extenders. As far as running extenders from slower hardware the only thing you may have to worry about is any additional overhead the new UI might bring to the server due to the fact that the extender UI is rendered there. I certainly don't speak for Frey but it seems like they'd probably keep the new UI as much as possible on par with the current one as far as server load. However there is the possibility that the new UI might bring a heaver burden on the server for rendering the UI on extenders.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

I know I'm the voice of the ever-dwindling minority, but there are some (possibly quite a few, if not "many"?) SageTV users who have old dinosaur server PCs and who get along quite nicely because they only view TV on extenders. While it appears that the majority of SageTV users are in the computer biz, are completely fine with spending hundreds or thousands on building new PCs regularly, and are in the "must have the latest, greatest, and fastest of everything immediately" camp (don't you people have wives?? ), there are a few of us who would prefer to not have to buy or build a new server (or, more specifically, not have to go through the migration headaches of getting the whole shebang moved), just because Sage's new UI required more beef simply to make it look prettier.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with Sage creating a shinier, glossier UI (unless it kills off every current STVi and requires them all to be re-written). I just don't know that I want to spend all the money on a new PC (along with the likely cost of buying new SageTV 7.0, since I doubt that jump will be a free upgrade), just for looks and nothing else.

Having a v7 isn't going to make v6 break; everything you have now will continue to work the way it currently does.

A good UI is an important feature, why shouldn't Sage build to what modern HW can do for new versions?

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by MeInMaui

Hmmm, maybe I implied that I know something by indirectly implying that I don't know anything.

Let me be clear that that that I know is no more than is known by those in the know. Though if I knew any more I know I'd have to take care not to show that I know. But lucky for me it's doubtful that I do or don't know any more than is generally known, so that makes it much easier to concisely explain just how much I may or may not know. Or maybe not....I don't know.

Well, I hope that cleared things up.

Aloha,
Mike

But do you know what the definition of "is" is?

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

But do you know what the definition of "is" is?

I'm guessing he may or may not.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by MeInMaui

Hmmm, maybe I implied that I know something by indirectly implying that I don't know anything.

Let me be clear that that that I know is no more than is known by those in the know. Though if I knew any more I know I'd have to take care not to show that I know. But lucky for me it's doubtful that I do or don't know any more than is generally known, so that makes it much easier to concisely explain just how much I may or may not know. Or maybe not....I don't know.

Well, I hope that cleared things up.

In a previous life you must have been a speech writer but I can't figure out if it was for Donald Rumsfeld or Alan Greenspan since the above quote could be from either of them.

[mayamaniac]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

I'm guessing he may or may not.

On the contrary, he's possibly more or less not definitely rejecting the idea that he undeniably do or do not know what it shouldn't probably be, if that indeed wasn't where it isn't.

So now that CES is over, did SageTV show anything interesting?

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

As far as running extenders from slower hardware the only thing you may have to worry about is any additional overhead the new UI might bring to the server due to the fact that the extender UI is rendered there.

This came up in a different thread. I thought the extenders rendered their own UI. I thought this was always the case with official extender support, even with the old MediaMVPs. Am I wrong?

[Taddeusz]

Read a story off Slashdot that said that CES was somehow getting hotels to kick vendors from their rooms who did not pay to exhibit on the CES floor. This even though according to the hotels it's not a violation of the use of their suites.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

So now that CES is over, did SageTV show anything interesting?

Nope. The only thing that went public was the SageTV folks telling DaveZatz that there is a SageTV 7 in the works and it has a new UI.

I had hoped for more - like screenshots at least but it appears we'll have to wait a little bit longer for more info.

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by babgvant

A good UI is an important feature, why shouldn't Sage build to what modern HW can do for new versions?

An analogy: I am a member of a certain professional society (letters after my name on my business card, etc.). I paid a fee, took an exam, got accredited. I then taught classes at my office to people who were looking to take the test. Most of them passed. We have quite a few people at our office accredited by this group.

A year later, that group announced that they were going to start changing membership fees and requiring continuing education, if you want to keep up your professional accreditation. Most of the people with whom I have spoken (from the classes I taught) are going to say "forget that" and just let their membership expire when the deadline arrives. That is not what we "signed up for" when we paid the fee, studied, and took the test. In other words, part of the allure of getting this accreditation was that you did the work up front, got the letters after your name, and it was free and lifelong. Now it's not. And there are other similar accreditations that we could have chosen instead, that are still free and lifelong.

Poor analogy, perhaps (since most Sage users wouldn't blink at needing more server power for a new UI). But in some cases, that requirement might drive people off, or, more likely, cause some people to seek other solutions in the first place.

Personally, the reason I chose SageTV from the get-go was the fact that I wouldn't need to buy a new, expensive PC to be my server, due to the extenders shouldering the load. Had it required a new computer, I would have gone another route.

Again... I'm not saying this is any reason Sage shouldn't change things. I'm just expressing a point of view that most SageTV users wouldn't even think about.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

An analogy: I am a member of a certain professional society (letters after my name on my business card, etc.). I paid a fee, took an exam, got accredited. I then taught classes at my office to people who were looking to take the test. Most of them passed. We have quite a few people at our office accredited by this group.

A year later, that group announced that they were going to start changing membership fees and requiring continuing education, if you want to keep up your professional accreditation. Most of the people with whom I have spoken (from the classes I taught) are going to say "forget that" and just let their membership expire when the deadline arrives. That is not what we "signed up for" when we paid the fee, studied, and took the test. In other words, part of the allure of getting this accreditation was that you did the work up front, got the letters after your name, and it was free and lifelong. Now it's not. And there are other similar accreditations that we could have chosen instead, that are still free and lifelong.

Poor analogy, perhaps (since most Sage users wouldn't blink at needing more server power for a new UI). But in some cases, that requirement might drive people off, or, more likely, cause some people to seek other solutions in the first place.

Personally, the reason I chose SageTV from the get-go was the fact that I wouldn't need to buy a new, expensive PC to be my server, due to the extenders shouldering the load. Had it required a new computer, I would have gone another route.

Again... I'm not saying this is any reason Sage shouldn't change things. I'm just expressing a point of view that most SageTV users wouldn't even think about.

Just because there may be a new ui you don't have to use it. I'm willing to bet the old ui will still be accessible in v7.

[Taddeusz]

Not necessarily that poor of an analogy. Things change. Whether it be education or technology. To expect SageTV to continue to cater to technology that is currently 7 years old and only getting older is not being realistic.

Same with an accreditation. Those letters after your name might mean nothing if it is 10 years old and you have no further education under your belt.

Certainly, if you're happy with a particular version of a program and a newer version raises the bar higher than you want to go it's your prerogative to stay with the older version. The only caveat to this is that the older versions of SageTV are no longer updated. Newer hardware support won't be added. So you're stuck with older hardware or you're forced to eventually upgrade. The latter might be more costly in the long run.

[Brent]

I get a chuckle every time I see the back and forth on UI around here.

The book most appropriate for this situation is on my office bookshelf "Who Moved My Cheese" by Spencer Johnson.

Change is not something to be afraid of - especially when we don't yet know what that change is

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

An analogy: I am a member of a certain professional society (letters after my name on my business card, etc.). I paid a fee, took an exam, got accredited. I then taught classes at my office to people who were looking to take the test. Most of them passed. We have quite a few people at our office accredited by this group.

I get where you're coming from, but the analogy breaks down pretty quickly.

The main difference is that the thing you bought (V6) is yours forever. The existence of V7 doesn't change that at all. What you're asking for is that you get to add letters (AA->AAA->AAB) w/o the additional investment.

For any company to be successful, they need to grow the business either by enticing repeat buyers or by making the pie bigger - a cool UI is one of the better ways to do both (esp when that is one of the main pts where they fail against the competition).

If we look at what Sage can do, besides UI what advancements can they make that would compel you to buy the upgrade?

[Olias]

Originally Posted by Brent

I get a chuckle every time I see the back and forth on UI around here.

The book most appropriate for this situation is on my office bookshelf "Who Moved My Cheese" by Spencer Johnson.

Change is not something to be afraid of - especially when we don't yet know what that change is

That book is required reading for all management where I work. Highly recommended!

[pjpjpjpj]

Heh - my wife was in the banking business and she has like 12 copies of "Who Moved my Cheese?" from various seminars and such.

Hey... I said it wasn't a great analogy!

(I'm just playing devil's advocate... I already warned the wife that, somewhere down the line, we are going to have to buy a better server PC!)

[Brent]

I wouldn't go and buy anything yet (unless you just want to). Let's wait and see what's really coming - What they develop will likely have different levels of CPU consumption (I'm guessing here) and the lowest common denominator is likely not your PC, but the HD100 which I know SageTV wants to keep working - even with a new version of SageTV.

[dennyc]

Just ran across a posting that talks about hulu for sage shown at CES.

Of note:

They showed it on the HD200 in standalone mode. Does it work with server?
Not available for public beta yet because they don't have ads working yet

Article: http://hd.engadget.com/2009/01/08/hu...tv-hd-theater/

Video: http://hd.engadget.com/2009/01/09/vi...tv-hd-theater/

[QueOnda]

Originally Posted by dennyc

Just ran across a posting that talks about hulu for sage shown at CES.

Of note:

They showed it on the HD200 in standalone mode. Does it work with server?
Not available for public beta yet because they don't have ads working yet

Article: http://hd.engadget.com/2009/01/08/hu...tv-hd-theater/

Video: http://hd.engadget.com/2009/01/09/vi...tv-hd-theater/

FROM 2009 OLD NEWS, Not going to happen!