ATI vs Nvidia & SageTV - the quest for quality video in a SageTV Client

[brainbone]

Originally Posted by Polypro

I've gone through ALL of this (just because, didn't have a problem) and am back at the MS Decoder with AC3Filter using EVR. Quality is fine.

"Fine" can be subjective. "Perfect" is what I'm after. The video displayed by SageTV should be the same quality as that displayed by other software, using the same PC and video source.

Also note that SageTV support has confirmed that there is an issue, and that they are working on a solution (although when/if that solution will be delivered is anyone's guess).

Why it shows up for some and not others that are using similar hardware, I'm not sure. It may have something to do with the stream source, the CPU... etc. To narrow this down, first it needs to be confirmed that those not having this issue truly are not having this issue, followed by detailed system specs from all.

Again -- this pertains to interlaced MPEG2 content both in Windows 7 and Vista, when using an ATI graphics card. It appears to be related to how SageTV selects a deinterlacing method (not confirmed).

So, to recap, this is a confirmed issue with SageTV -- not an imaginary one, or one caused by user/configuration error.

If you are having this issue, you should report it to sage support in hopes that it will help focus more attention on fixing it.

[brainbone]

Originally Posted by sdsean

Actually I believe you still get hardware accel since i'm using the Cyberlink codecs and it manages that. . .its not the same as the dvxa stuff in the sage decoder though. ..

its tough for me to tell since my cpu usage is so low. . .

Yes. EVR is required for DXVA. I'm not sure what the cyberlink decoders are using.

Have you tried the MS decoders?

[Oats]

One thing to watch out for with the MS decoders is random crashes during playback. I had this problem and a google search showed there are a lot of people who experience the same.

I switched decoders and haven't had a problem since. The Sage decoder was choppy so I tried the Cyberlink ones and have been very happy. They also had the least CPU usage out of the 3.

[sdsean]

is there a way that I can have mpeg videos use overlay and H.264 and DVD use EVR?

what's interesting (after updating to the latest ati drivers 9.12) is that using the current Sage Decocoder for DVD, EVR works great.

using it for MPEG2 however I still have the OSD flicker issue that drivers me crazy (again with sage's decoder and hardware accel turned on).

for H.264 I use core avc, so I'm pretty happy with that and again EVR works fine. . .

maybe for mpeg2 I could try turing of hardware accel?

[Polypro]

Well, my post was more of an FYI regarding decoder use in Windows 7. It sounds like there is a Sage/ATI problem...the last time I messed with ATI and their CCC drivers...was when I uninstalled them to put a 7600GT in my 780G rig. I haven't had any crashing with the MS decoders yet. I did with Cyberlink 8 & 9 decoders...being on DirecTV, sometimes the stream gets messed up, and the PDVD decoders couldn't handle it. nVIDIA and MS have, so far. The joys of HTPC...one man's perfect setup is another man's nightmare.

P

[brainbone]

Originally Posted by Oats

One thing to watch out for with the MS decoders is random crashes during playback. I had this problem and a google search showed there are a lot of people who experience the same.

I switched decoders and haven't had a problem since. The Sage decoder was choppy so I tried the Cyberlink ones and have been very happy. They also had the least CPU usage out of the 3.

I haven't had that issue with the MS decoders, but then I'm not using them for H264.

Originally Posted by sdsean

is there a way that I can have mpeg videos use overlay and H.264 and DVD use EVR?

You can select EVR in the Detailed Settings/DVD menu, though I always had issues when using a different one than for other video/tv.

Originally Posted by sdsean

what's interesting (after updating to the latest ati drivers 9.12) is that using the current Sage Decocoder for DVD, EVR works great.

using it for MPEG2 however I still have the OSD flicker issue that drivers me crazy (again with sage's decoder and hardware accel turned on).

for H.264 I use core avc, so I'm pretty happy with that and again EVR works fine. . .

maybe for mpeg2 I could try turing of hardware accel?

I'll have to toss back in an ATI card in one of my clients and give 9.12 a shot.

Originally Posted by Polypro

I uninstalled them to put a 7600GT in my 780G rig. I haven't had any crashing with the MS decoders yet.

Not using ATI graphics was my solution as well.

[Fuzzy]

I don't know if there's a problem with the newer ATI cards, but both my 3600 and 3800 series cards have zero problems playing back anything I throw at them. Same experience inside and outside of sage. This is using the MS decoders, with whatever drivers were current on the site 2 weeks ago. I use it for MPEG2 HD OTA, MPEG2 SD and H.264 HD (R-5000 from Dish).

The only thing I can think of, is that the newer cards turn on some higher level of processing, as they have more lanes to do it in, that mine don't, and that is where your problems are coming from. There are options in the CCC to tune down the processing, and that may straighten out your issues. (AVIVO Video -> Basic Quality -> Select Deinterlacing Mode).

[koan00]

I have not been able to get EVR to run smooth with either MPG2 (PowerDVD9) or H.264 (CoreAVC 2.0) for tv recordings. DVD seems fine (even a bit better) in EVR.

Every time a new Catalyst or codec update comes out I try EVR, and end up switching back to Overlay.

[brainbone]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I don't know if there's a problem with the newer ATI cards, but both my 3600 and 3800 series cards have zero problems playing back anything I throw at them.

My 3450 could never produce good results in SageTV, though at the time I blamed it on the 3450 being under-powered -- even though I could get it working OK in WMP (1080i on the 3450 never looked as good as the 4xxx's in WMP).

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Same experience inside and outside of sage. This is using the MS decoders, with whatever drivers were current on the site 2 weeks ago. I use it for MPEG2 HD OTA, MPEG2 SD and H.264 HD (R-5000 from Dish).

The only thing I can think of, is that the newer cards turn on some higher level of processing, as they have more lanes to do it in, that mine don't, and that is where your problems are coming from. There are options in the CCC to tune down the processing, and that may straighten out your issues. (AVIVO Video -> Basic Quality -> Select Deinterlacing Mode).

I've been through every possible setting in CCC, even resorting to registry hacks trying to get around this issue, reformatting, re-installing, etc., between attempts. I can get things working great in WMP (don't have to tweak CCC/registry at all to get it) -- no amount of tweaking will help in SageTV.

Looking back over this thread, I'm not sure that 3xxx vs 4xxx is the consistent commonality between those that have it working or not. Does anyone with a 4xxx have this working "perfect" (as in: 1080i video quality looks as good as an HD200 outputting to a 1080p display) in SageTV?

[phelme]

This is an old thread, but I'm having similar issues now with v7 and ATI.

Recently, content recorded over my HDHomeRun @ 1080i has been playing back looking like this:

Playback with this problem is either on a 780G (3200 Radeon) or an x1650 card using ArcSoft decoders. I can get it to play better with CyberLink if I set HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cyberlink\Common\cl264dec\SageTV UVIMode to "2" (and force "bob" de-interlacing) in the registry. The thing is, I didn't have to do that before, something changed somewhere. And like you guys it plays OK outside of Sage. It's almost as if Sage isn't recognizing it as interlaced content. Maybe it's because I send 1080i content through MediaShrink to make a compressed mkv file first.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by phelme

Maybe it's because I send 1080i content through MediaShrink to make a compressed mkv file first.

I think this is most likely the source of your problems. Just knowing that the file is interlaced isn't enough to know what form of deinterlacing to do. You also have to know whether it is flagged as VIDEO or FILM. The original transport stream has that information. The resultant MKV file does not. Ideally, you'd deinterlace the file completely, to it's original 24 30 or 60fps form, and then recompress it as progressive for best results.

[phelme]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I think this is most likely the source of your problems. Just knowing that the file is interlaced isn't enough to know what form of deinterlacing to do. You also have to know whether it is flagged as VIDEO or FILM. The original transport stream has that information. The resultant MKV file does not. Ideally, you'd deinterlace the file completely, to it's original 24 30 or 60fps form, and then recompress it as progressive for best results.

I'm beginning to think you are right and will run some tests today to see if it is MediaShrink and discuss it with EvilPenguin. If it is I'll start using the internal SageTV transcoder for MPEG2 as it appears to get it right. Thx.