Help, can't get IR Blaster to work with SageTV.

[freewheeling]

I just purchased SageTV Media Center to go with the Hauppauge HD PVR I bought. I set up all the software that came with the PVR and it all seemed to work OK. Recording worked OK using WinTV, and the blaster configuration utility found the correct code to get the blaster working. However, since I activated my license for the SageTV Media Center it won't change channels. If I schedule a recording it'll just record whatever channel the STB (an SA Explorer 4250HDC) happens to be on, and if it's off it just records blank. I tried to use the wizard to set up the source device again, but the program doesn't seem to even know what STB I'm using or how to communicate with it. Trying to manually change the channel in "Watch TV Live" doesn't work either. I have to change the channel using my remote.

So, can someone tell me how to get the SageTV Media Center to use the IR blaster? $80 is a lot to spend on software that just spins its wheels. Again, the blaster is located perfectly and the Hauppauge and ArcSoft software has no problems.

[davephan]

Welcome to the SageTV forum! Sometimes IR blaster trouble occurs, but it should be possible to overcome that issue.

Try following this thread to setup the HD-PVR:

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44511

Also check your tuner control. In SageTV, select "setup", "setup video sources", select your HD-PVR tuner, then select "tuner control". Within "tuner control", you can test and program your IR blaster.

If that does not work, then you may need to get a USB-UIRT. I could not get my HD-PVR IR blaster to function reliably without using a USB-UIRT. I already had USB-UIRT before I got the HD-PVR.

The free LrnHelper program can also help you confirm that the USB-UIRT will change the channels correctly. The 'repeatcount' parameter in the IR file may need tweaking, usually between the values of about 3 to 10.

It's annoying when the IR blaster isn't working correctly. Sometimes it does take some effort to get it to work correctly. Once you get it working successfully with SageTV it does change the channels reliably. The WinTV program is only good for testing the tuner devices, since it is very crude compared to SageTV.

Keep us posted of your progress in solving the problem.


Dave

[freewheeling]

Originally Posted by davephan

Welcome to the SageTV forum! Sometimes IR blaster trouble occurs, but it should be possible to overcome that issue.

Try following this thread to setup the HD-PVR:

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44511

Also check your tuner control. In SageTV, select "setup", "setup video sources", select your HD-PVR tuner, then select "tuner control". Within "tuner control", you can test and program your IR blaster.

If that does not work, then you may need to get a USB-UIRT. I could not get my HD-PVR IR blaster to function reliably without using a USB-UIRT. I already had USB-UIRT before I got the HD-PVR.

The free LrnHelper program can also help you confirm that the USB-UIRT will change the channels correctly. The 'repeatcount' parameter in the IR file may need tweaking, usually between the values of about 3 to 10.

It's annoying when the IR blaster isn't working correctly. Sometimes it does take some effort to get it to work correctly. Once you get it working successfully with SageTV it does change the channels reliably. The WinTV program is only good for testing the tuner devices, since it is very crude compared to SageTV.

Keep us posted of your progress in solving the problem.


Dave

In tuner control there aren't any options for "change tuner device" or "test infrared code," "reprogram infrared code" or anything else, just a "Close" or "Cancel" button. I rebooted the computer and it seems to be changing channels now, but I don't know for how long and tweaking seems nearly impossible. "Learn New Command" just comes back with an error. There doesn't seem to be any place to enter the STB or enter the codeset. The program must just borrow those parameters from WinTV, since it has no way of setting them itself. Is the "LrnHelper" program something I can download?

I don't know what a UIRT is. I have a Polar IR dongle, but I think it just communicates with Polar devices.

[davephan]

Originally Posted by freewheeling

I don't know what a UIRT is. I have a Polar IR dongle, but I think it just communicates with Polar devices.

A USB-UIRT is an IRblaster.
http://www.usbuirt.com/

I've never heard of the Polar device. Maybe it will work. One of the most common IRblasters used is the USB-UIRT, so there is lots of support. The USB-UIRT can be setup with three separate zones, to control three set top boxes. If each set top box can be setup with different IR channels or codes, then one USB-UIRT can control more set top boxes than you will ever get.

If your system is stable and working, you should take a disk image of it (unless you are using WHS, where disk imaging may not work). Then you can quickly recover to a working state in the future if you have trouble again.

Dave

[freewheeling]

The PVR came with an IR blaster. Again, I can't see where to enter the parameters such as the setcode to communicate with the STB, so I assume SageTV gleans this from WinTV? So it seems the crux of the problem has to do with how it gleans this info, where it's stored, and how I can verify that it's storing the correct info. Essentially all of this stuff is "grayed out" in tuner control in the Wizard, so maybe there's another way to get to it?

[davephan]

Are you saying the "Tuner Control" information is greyed out when you follow the path: setup, setup video sources, HD-PVR, tuner control?

If so, try deleting the HD-PVR, then click finish, then try to add it again. Which tuner control do you try to select?

I don't use the IR blaster that came with the HD-PVR, since I found that the HD-PVR was not stable using the self contained IR blaster. The HD-PVR was stable using USB-UIRT IR blaster.

Dave

[freewheeling]

You seem to be saying that in order for the hardware (PVR HD) to work with the $80 software I just bought I need to spend another $60 on hardware, even though the original hardware (PVR) works fine with the *free software*? Something's not right about this picture. I'd feel quite justified in asking for a refund of the purchase price of the SageTV software if that's really the case.

[freewheeling]

Dave:

Ah well, I went ahead and bought the USB UIRT. What the heck. In for a penny in for a pound, I guess.

So when I get this device do I then have to re-install the SageTV software after installing the UIRT, or can I just install the UIRT when I get it, and then just run the wizard again?

[davephan]

I know you are frustrated getting SageTV to work properly. It is a pain when the computer cannot change the channels on the set top box. This problem can be overcome though with some additional effort. I can't explain why the free Hauppauge software works with their IR blaster and the SageTV software isn't working. Using the Hauppauge software for a PVR would be horrible for other reasons, since it is crude and limited. Once you get the SageTV software working properly, you will realize that the free Hauppauge software is only good for testing, not to use as PVR software.

I'm sorry you had to buy the USB-UIRT to get the channel switching to work. Some people are using the built in HD-PVR IR blaster. Others had a lot of trouble with the built in HD-PVR IR blaster. I found my HD-PVR was very unstable using the built in IR blaster, but is stable using the USB-UIRT to change the channels. I already had a USB-UIRT though, so it wasn't an extra cost for me. I started with a Hauppauge 350, which I could never get the channels to switch without also getting a USB-UIRT. I am thinking about getting a spare USB-UIRT to have on hand in case my USB-UIRT that I have been using for over 5 years ever breaks. The USB-UIRT is a good method to change channels. There are other methods that work if you have DirecTV or some boxes that allow firewire or serial. The USB-UIRT is the most flexible, which allows you to switch between providers when they jack up their prices. You then just need to change the IR file. The USB-UIRT can also control up to three separate boxes without physically isolating the IR light from each box. It will control many more boxes if each box has more than one IR code channel.

You should not need to re-install SageTV, just go to "Setup", "Setup Video Sources", then delete the HD-PVR tuner, then click "Finish Source Setup", then "Add New Source". At that point you can add the HD-PVR again, and when it comes to the point where you add tuner control, select the USB-UIRT. The USB-UIRT, and probably other IR devices use a file that ends with .ir

You can program the IR file two ways. One way is within the SageTV program when you install the HD-PVR. You can access that by following the path "Setup", "Setup Video Sources", then click on the tuner control. In my case the tuner control is named "Tuner Control USB-UIRT Transceiver MotorolaDCX3200-1. My IR file is named MotorolaDCX3200-1.ir. My IR file path is c:\Program Files\SageTV\Common\RemoteCodes\USB-UIRT Transceiver\MotorolaDCX3200-1.ir. I am attaching my IR file so you can see what an IR file is supposed to look like. The "repeatcount" number is set to "10". This number may need to be tweaked, maybe closer to 1 or maybe higher. If the number is too low, the channels won't switch. I think if it too high you will get double digits.

The other way to create the IR file is to modify an existing IR file with a program called LrnHelper, which is free. Each digit code can be found with LrnHelper, then paste each digit into the IR file, one digit at a time. I have worked with IR files using both methods. Someone may also have an IR file for your set top box on the forum, and you could get the IR file from them.

While you are waiting for your USB-UIRT to arrive, you might think about how you plan to recover your SageTV computer if you have problems. What operating system are you using? If it not WHS, then the best way is to use disk imaging. You can buy a commercial software package, or use a less flexible free software. I use Ghost, but might switch to Acronis.

After you get SageTV working properly, you will probably use it a lot. If you have a family or spouse that uses SageTV, you will really want to get the SageTV computer working again quickly. The SageTV computer could quit working if the boot drive goes bad, you get malware, you add software that causes problems or any number of reasons. Manual rebuilds are painfully slow and you can run into problems with the build. For these reasons, having a recovery plan before problems occur is a good idea, just like carrying a spare tire in a car is a good idea.

If you don't own imaging software, you can try PING, Partition Image is Not Ghost. After you have your imaging software setup, create an image of your C drive, and save it on another hard drive. Never use DVDs or CDs since the recoveries can fail using optical media. Power down the computer, replace the hard drive with an old spare hard drive. Power up the computer, and apply the image to the other hard drive. When the computer boots up to the replaced drive, then you know that you can recover the computer. If the recovery fails then you can install the original hard drive and nothing is lost. Recovering with images very rarely fails when you store the image files on a USB hard drive. I haven't had a recovery failure in years. I've recovered my SageTV computer many times after trying demo software, to completely remove the demo software. I've recovered servers at work hundreds of times without problems using imaging.

So, let me know if you have any more questions. Maybe someone can offer other answers who did get the HD-PVR to work with the built in IR blaster.


Dave

[freewheeling]

Dave:

Thanks for all the advice on IR files. Regarding backup, I use Windows 7's native Backup and Restore application on a dedicated drive, which I understand is better than RAID for recovery from catastrophic failure. It creates a system image and updates every day with changes I've made.

I noticed that the WinTV scheduler is in the system tray, as is SageTV and ArcSoft connect. I wonder if I really need all of those running at the same time? They might be setting up a conflict? I'm not sure how to remove them from startup though.

[davephan]

I don't use Windows 7, but I am thinking of switching to Windows 7 for my replacement SageTV server. Which version of Windows 7 are you using? 32 bits or 64 bits? If your version of Windows 7 includes Windows Media Center, you need to disable it because it conflicts with SageTV. The file path to Windows 7 may be different than Windows XP for the IR file. There are extra things consider when using Windows 7, especially the 64-bit version.

I suggest you do a "Advanced Search" in the SageTV forum. Use the keywords "Windows 7", select "Search on Titles only". The posts this search finds will help you with your Windows 7 setup.

I have heard of the built-in imaging backup for Windows 7. In the distant past, I periodically tried the Microsoft backup program, even long before disk imaging was created. The recoveries that depended on the Microsoft backup program failed repeatedly. So, I think it is still important for you to actually test a recovery. If you create a backup to another drive, you could power down your system, replace the C drive with another drive. The power it up and try to recover to the replaced drive. I assume you will have to boot to a CD that you created before you swap the two C drives, since the replacement C drive might be unbootable if it is an old drive and would be unbootable if it was a new drive.

If you are able to restore the computer to the replacement drive, then your recovery plan will work, and you can have confidence that you will be able to recover the computer if it fails. However, if the test recovery fails using the Microsoft imaging program, then you should use another imaging product.

Dave

[freewheeling]

Dave:

I'm using the 64-bit version of Windows 7 Professional. I've heard good things about the Backup and Restore utility, but it's a good idea to test it with a "dry run" as you suggest. Also a good tip to disable Windows Media Center. I think I can do that in MSCONFIG. Will conduct the search you suggest, thanks.

[davephan]

Firewire won't be an option for channel switching with Windows 7 64-bit, since no driver is available. If you don't use firewire, and use the USB-UIRT, then that issue doesn't matter.

I'm still thinking about using Windows 7 64-bit for my new SageTV server, but I haven't decided yet. Ghost does not work with Windows 7 64-bit, so I would probably use Acronis for imaging, which does work with Windows 7 64-bit.


Dave

[sic0048]

Originally Posted by freewheeling

I just purchased SageTV Media Center to go with the Hauppauge HD PVR I bought. I set up all the software that came with the PVR and it all seemed to work OK. Recording worked OK using WinTV, and the blaster configuration utility found the correct code to get the blaster working. However, since I activated my license for the SageTV Media Center it won't change channels. If I schedule a recording it'll just record whatever channel the STB (an SA Explorer 4250HDC) happens to be on, and if it's off it just records blank. I tried to use the wizard to set up the source device again, but the program doesn't seem to even know what STB I'm using or how to communicate with it. Trying to manually change the channel in "Watch TV Live" doesn't work either. I have to change the channel using my remote.

So, can someone tell me how to get the SageTV Media Center to use the IR blaster? $80 is a lot to spend on software that just spins its wheels. Again, the blaster is located perfectly and the Hauppauge and ArcSoft software has no problems.

It looks like I am too late to prevent you from buying the USB-UIRT (nothing against them - I actually use one in my automation system), but lets try to get the Hauppauge blaster working.

It seems that you have gotten the blaster to work with the Hauppage BlasterCfg program, correct? You can type in a channel and press "Send" and the STB will change channels correct? If not, then it is a Hauppauge software problem (perhaps all three IR related programs were not installed).

Assuming all that does work, then it is a "Sage" problem. When you go into the Sage Tuner Setup and you select the Hauppage IR Blaster, you should see the "Stub Device" as the choice. Is this showing up on that Setup Screen?

If the Stub Device file is located in the SageTV/Common/IR devices folder, try moving it to the SageTV/Common/IR Devices/Hauppauge folder. Stop the Sage service before moving the file and then restart it. See if this makes a difference.

Also, as a last resort, after doing these things, in the SageTV setup menu, try removing the HD-PVR as a tuner and re-installing it as a tuner. That has been known to help people too.

I'd love to hear your comments, success or failures with the IR Blaster. I am the person that wrote the "How To" linked to above, and I am constantly trying to tweak it as more people report their experiences.

Good luck.

[freewheeling]

Thanks for the followup. Somehow or other the SageTV seems to be working with the PVR HD blaster, although I don't know how "stable" it is. Anyway, I also now have a USB UIRT but I'm not sure what to do with it, and can't even register on their forum because the CAPTCHA image doesn't even show up. But that's another issue.

I don't even know what I'm supposed to do *physically* with this UIRT thing. Do I just put it somewhere near the devices I want to control, or do I plug the PVR HD blaster directly into the UIRT? Could I use the UIRT to control all of my devices with one remote? What is this thing, anyway? It doesn't even have a user manual??

[davephan]

Originally Posted by freewheeling

Thanks for the followup. Somehow or other the SageTV seems to be working with the PVR HD blaster, although I don't know how "stable" it is. Anyway, I also now have a USB UIRT but I'm not sure what to do with it, and can't even register on their forum because the CAPTCHA image doesn't even show up. But that's another issue.

I don't even know what I'm supposed to do *physically* with this UIRT thing. Do I just put it somewhere near the devices I want to control, or do I plug the PVR HD blaster directly into the UIRT? Could I use the UIRT to control all of my devices with one remote? What is this thing, anyway? It doesn't even have a user manual??

You should be able to use the USB-UIRT to change channels on the cable box that is connected to the HD-PVR. The USB-UIRT should show up as one of the tuning devices when adding tuner cards, including the HD-PVR.

You can test the USB-UIRT with the LrnHelper program to make sure it is working.

Dave

[freewheeling]

Originally Posted by davephan

You should be able to use the USB-UIRT to change channels on the cable box that is connected to the HD-PVR. The USB-UIRT should show up as one of the tuning devices when adding tuner cards, including the HD-PVR.

You can test the USB-UIRT with the LrnHelper program to make sure it is working.

Dave:

OK, but *physically* what do I do with it and where do I put it? Could I plug the blaster I'm currently using into it (in the back), put it next to my TV, and then use it to receive signals from the Hauppauge! remote (which apparently doesn't work on its own with the PVR HD)? I mean, besides using it to communicate with the STB does it have other uses?

[freewheeling]

BTW, I can't really figure out what the lrnhelper utility does. It appears to just learn the code for a single button press from the remote and then can transmit that to the STB, but I'm not sure what good that is other than just testing that the USB UIRT is actually communicating something. I really wish there were a few user manuals for this stuff. It's rather inscrutable. Is that all it does?

[Update: It just occurred to me that one should be able to send signals from this device to actually turn the STB on if it happens to be off, which is something that the PVR blaster doesn't do on its own. Uhh... only problem with that is that it's a toggle, and you'd have to somehow know whether it's in the on or off state before sending the signal. Never mind...]

[davephan]

Originally Posted by freewheeling

Dave:

OK, but *physically* what do I do with it and where do I put it? Could I plug the blaster I'm currently using into it (in the back), put it next to my TV, and then use it to receive signals from the Hauppauge! remote (which apparently doesn't work on its own with the PVR HD)? I mean, besides using it to communicate with the STB does it have other uses?

I think we need to review your setup. To record video/audio content, you have a set top box, HD-PVR, a USB-UIRT, and the SageTV software. The SageTV software can switch the channels with the HD-PVR IR blaster, if you can get it to work, and the HD-PVR remains stable using the built-in HD-PVR IR blaster. If you cannot get the HD-PVR IR blaster to switch channels on the set top box or have HD-PVR stability problems, then the USB-UIRT can allow the computer to change the channels on the set top box and improve the HD-PVR stability.

How are you playing back the video/audio content on your TV? Are you using a video card in your computer, or a media extender like a HD-200 or MVP? If you have a media extender, then the video/audio signal will travel from the computer to the media extender. The media extender connects to the TV. The IR signal is received by the media extender and travels by Eithernet back to the computer.

If you don't have a media extender, and are using a video card in your computer, then you need a way control SageTV remotely.

When I first started using SageTV, I had one 350 card and a USB-UIRT. I placed the USB-UIRT where it could optically see the set top box, a few inches in front of the set top box, and positioned so the USB-UIRT could still receive the IR signal from my seating area with the Hauppauge remote control. The computer would switch channels on the set top box with by sending a signal from the computer to the USB-UIRT. I could control SageTV by sending signals with my Hauppauge remote control from the seating area. The signal sent by the Hauppauge remote control was received by the USB-UIRT and traveled to the computer allowing remote control of SageTV.

The easiest and best way to setup SageTV is to use tuner cards or the HD-PVR and have media extenders like the HD-200. The MVP media extenders will also work, but they have many disadvantages. The MVP audio and video is worse than the HD-200 and the MVP will only playback mpeg2 without transcoding by the computer. If the computer does not have enough CPU processing power, video stuttering will occur when it cannot transcode non-mpeg2 videos into the mpeg2 format. Meanwhile the HD-200 can playback various video formats without the need for the computer to transcode the video on the fly.

I hope that clears things up a bit for you.


Dave

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by freewheeling

Dave:

OK, but *physically* what do I do with it and where do I put it? Could I plug the blaster I'm currently using into it (in the back), put it next to my TV, and then use it to receive signals from the Hauppauge! remote (which apparently doesn't work on its own with the PVR HD)? I mean, besides using it to communicate with the STB does it have other uses?

To get the Hauppauge remote to work with Sagetv, you have to edit the irremote.ini file that gets installed in the Windows dir when you install the Hauppauge software. Out of the box, it's setup to work with the freeware that comes with the HD-PVR. However, you'll have to search on these forums for the answer on exactly how to do that (maybe Opus will help you). Just make sure the file is pointing at the correct directory where you installed Sage. I agree - it seems odd that SageTV and Hauppauge can't get on the phone and talk to each other about this, as it would be relatively simple for Hauppauge to write different versions for different recording software (Sage - Beyond TV etc), but those companies would have to show an interest in helping them. That doesn't seem to have happened here.