HD-PVR on WHS - Client errors and video slow motion and jerky

[sportera]

My networked system has been running like a clock with 3 DTV receivers connected to (2) nvidia dual tv tuners using s-video interface. Clients responding perfectly using DTV Serial control for changing channes.

THEN.....I decided it was time to upgrade to HD-PVR's at the WHS. Now after 2 days I'm still trying to find out why my video at client is running so slow and jerky at times. It is totally unusable at this point. Here is what I've done and still no luck:

- HD-PVR Drivers - the boxes came from Newegg with v1.5.6.1 driver, which loaded along with packaged TotalMedia Extreme software to test component connection to WHS PC. Worked OK at WHS in packaged software, but video at client PC running in slow motion. Then I tried to roll back driver to v1.5.6.0. No luck

- Removed both nvidia dual TV boards hoping I had a problem there that would fix the issue. Still no luck

- I've run HCWClear a few times to clear the WinTV drivers from the registry and then reloaded (with WHS SageTV service stopped). No luck.

- I've powered down the HD-PVR a few times and rebooted WHS a few times. No luck.

- I've downloaded the trial Power DVD 9 to get the Cyberlink codec to replace my nvidia pure video codec. No luck.

Note: This is not a WiFi connection to clients. Network is hard wired. I've only tried to connect to (1) HD-PVR at this time to get system working before connecting other two.

I'm getting the "slow motion" effect at a desktop client. At my main HTPC client, I'm getting the -4,0x80040217 playback exception error when I try to set up the HD-PVR tuner.

Can someone PLEASE help???

[sic0048]

Did you follow these directions? Basically the biggest thing is that you must uninstall SageTV prior to installing any of the HD-PVR drivers or software. It sounds like you tried to install the HD-PVR overtop your existing SageTV setup. That will not work.

[sportera]

Originally Posted by sic0048

Did you follow these directions? Basically the biggest thing is that you must uninstall SageTV prior to installing any of the HD-PVR drivers or software. It sounds like you tried to install the HD-PVR overtop your existing SageTV setup. That will not work.

Thanks for sending me that link. I've really got to lock down the forum search process. That link probably would have saved me a lot of headaches.

Anyway, I got 1 HD-PVR working, (but not good) last night after downloading and paying for the Cyberlink H.264 decoder. I would have thought it would be included with HD-PVR software package, but when I had Sage setup "list" H.264 decoders, it did not find any.

I can get video now at clients but it's still a little jerky and when I try to change channels, it freezes momentarily then the sound repeats about 5 times (like a scratched LP record used to do), then changes. I'm hoping my old Paterson Tech USB to serial setup will work with the new devices.

I'll try to follow the steps shown in the link you sent today and see what happens.

[davephan]

What are your SageTV system specs? Are you using MVP extenders? The HD-PVR does not output files in mpeg format, it uses TS format. If you have MVP extenders, then the computer system has to have enough CPU processing power to transcode the video files on the fly. If the CPU is too weak to handle the load, the video will stutter. If you have the HD-200, then the computer does not have to transcode the video files on the fly.

Are you using the built-in HD-PVR IR blaster or a USB-UIRT? The HD-PVR is not very stable using the built-in IR blaster. Some people are able to use the built-in IR blaster, but many people find the stability improves by switching to the USB-UIRT. I could not get the HD-PVR to function reliably until I switched to the USB-UIRT, which I already owned.

It helps to keep the HD-PVR cooler, putting it in a place out of the sunlight from windows. There is also a mod which cools it down by adding a fan, which is supposed to help the stability problem.

Dave

[sportera]

Originally Posted by davephan

What are your SageTV system specs? Are you using MVP extenders? The HD-PVR does not output files in mpeg format, it uses TS format. If you have MVP extenders, then the computer system has to have enough CPU processing power to transcode the video files on the fly. If the CPU is too weak to handle the load, the video will stutter. If you have the HD-200, then the computer does not have to transcode the video files on the fly.

Are you using the built-in HD-PVR IR blaster or a USB-UIRT? The HD-PVR is not very stable using the built-in IR blaster. Some people are able to use the built-in IR blaster, but many people find the stability improves by switching to the USB-UIRT. I could not get the HD-PVR to function reliably until I switched to the USB-UIRT, which I already owned.

It helps to keep the HD-PVR cooler, putting it in a place out of the sunlight from windows. There is also a mod which cools it down by adding a fan, which is supposed to help the stability problem.

Dave

My current WHS machine is Intel Pentium R 2.0Ghz with 2GB memory and a cheap nvidia AGP video board. I believe the Pentium is Dual core.

That being said, I now have a new board on order with an Intel Core 2 Quad 2.66Ghz processor and 4GB 1066 (PC2 8500) memory plus a possibly overkill video board, (GeForce PCI Express 2.0 9500GT 512MB 128-bit 32-stream processors). I'm also replacing my old network switch with a Gigabyte switch.

I'm thinking this should be enough to better run my WHS with 3-HD-PVR's, but I have a question about the video board: Does the quality of the WHS video board have anything to due with performance of the HD-PVR's, recording, or network performance to clients? The reason I ask is this new board is much better than PCI 1x board I have in my HTPC client and I'd like to swap them if high quality video board performance is not a requirement of the WHS system.

[MitchSchaft]

A video card won't affect the server unless you're trying to watch videos on the server itself. Which is not what you want to do on a WHS box.

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by sportera

I'm thinking this should be enough to better run my WHS with 3-HD-PVR's, but I have a question about the video board: Does the quality of the WHS video board have anything to due with performance of the HD-PVR's, recording, or network performance to clients? The reason I ask is this new board is much better than PCI 1x board I have in my HTPC client and I'd like to swap them if high quality video board performance is not a requirement of the WHS system.

The CPU should have minimal impact on the performance of the HD-PVR. All encoding is done on the HD-PVR. All the computer sees is the .ts stream from the USB port, which it simply has to save to the HDD.

The graphics card should have no effect unless you were trying to do playback from WHS, which won't work well because WHS doesn't come with any of the codecs and playback software built in. You technically only need a graphics card in the machine for initial setup anyway.

What are you using for clients? Those are the ones that need the graphics HP to decode the HD-PVR stream.

Are you having problems with live TV or recordings or both? Live TV always seems to be harder than just video playback. I would suggest recording some show (preferrably a shorter half hour show in HD), then copy it to the local drive of another computer and see how it plays. I found the cyberlink codec that comes with the HD-PVR works well on my desktop machine.

[sportera]

Originally Posted by Djc208

What are you using for clients? Those are the ones that need the graphics HP to decode the HD-PVR stream.

Are you having problems with live TV or recordings or both? Live TV always seems to be harder than just video playback. I would suggest recording some show (preferrably a shorter half hour show in HD), then copy it to the local drive of another computer and see how it plays. I found the cyberlink codec that comes with the HD-PVR works well on my desktop machine.

Right now my only client is my HTPC which is a Core 2 Duo 1.86Ghz machine with 4GB memory and GeForce 9400GT 512MB 128-bit PCIE 16x videe with b-Enspirer audio card added. It is on a wired network running a Win 7 64 bit operating system. Recently I've found my best combination is to use set EVR at both WHS and client, use nvidia purevideo video and audio codecs, and use Cyberlink PDVD8 H.264 codec. This has eliminated jerkey and slow motion video and does well most of the time. Still my main problems at this point are:
1. Typically on the 1/2 hour, when a show I'm watching is ending and new show is about to begin, video freezes and the audio studders (repeats the same 1 sec of audio about 17 times before video and audio start playing again.
2. I have to use the vanilla STV and cannot use SageMC. If I use SageMC, I get the same as in #1 above whenever I change channels in addition to the end of show studdering & freezing.

And are you telling me I'm wasting my time upgrading the WHS machine? That the increase in memory and Quad processing power won't do anything to help? Nothing like throwing $500 down the drain if that's the case.

[sportera]

Originally Posted by Djc208

The CPU should have minimal impact on the performance of the HD-PVR. All encoding is done on the HD-PVR. All the computer sees is the .ts stream from the USB port, which it simply has to save to the HDD.

One more thing I forgot to mention. I also just replaced the WHS 400GB hard drive that does all the TV Recording with a 1TB drive but forgot to format the new drive to 64K clusters per recommended by Sage. Could this be causing freezing and studder problems on playback at a PC client?

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by sportera

1. Typically on the 1/2 hour, when a show I'm watching is ending and new show is about to begin, video freezes and the audio studders (repeats the same 1 sec of audio about 17 times before video and audio start playing again.
2. I have to use the vanilla STV and cannot use SageMC. If I use SageMC, I get the same as in #1 above whenever I change channels in addition to the end of show studdering & freezing.

That is pretty typical. There is a tweak you can do to help hide it but mine does it too, the HD PVR doesn't seem to like changing video/audio feeds like that, or maybe it's just how Sage handles them, in either case it's never bothered me.

And are you telling me I'm wasting my time upgrading the WHS machine? That the increase in memory and Quad processing power won't do anything to help? Nothing like throwing $500 down the drain if that's the case.

Probably not, unless there was a problem there to begin with. If your old CPU was maxed out because of other processes then it will help but if you're just doing normal WHS stuff (no comskip or transcoding on the server) then an Intel Atom would probably be OK. I ran my Sage server on a Pentium 4 2.6 Ghz for a while with no problems. Comskip was slow but otherwise no problems. However I'd seriously look at using comskip now that you've got the horsepower to run it well.

Originally Posted by sportera

One more thing I forgot to mention. I also just replaced the WHS 400GB hard drive that does all the TV Recording with a 1TB drive but forgot to format the new drive to 64K clusters per recommended by Sage. Could this be causing freezing and studder problems on playback at a PC client?

I'd say that's probably your problem. These are big files and if you're trying to dump three tuners or more worth of data onto the drive as well as reading it to send to extenders you'd be pushing the IO of the hard drive even if you had 64K clusters, with default 4 or 8k clusters you're probably there.

[sportera]

Originally Posted by Djc208

That is pretty typical. There is a tweak you can do to help hide it but mine does it too, the HD PVR doesn't seem to like changing video/audio feeds like that, or maybe it's just how Sage handles them, in either case it's never bothered me.

Any idea where I can find the tweak. I've been searching "studder" and "freezing" for weeks. I don't like the studder at the end of a show. And my wife hates it, which is even more important in this house.

[Clift]

Okay here's the thing:
The TotalMedia codecs don't work under windows 7. So that's whay you didn't see it. Download the native recording patch and try using the Microsoft Decoders to see if some of your problems go away.
Native Recording Patch: http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43579

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by sportera

Any idea where I can find the tweak. I've been searching "studder" and "freezing" for weeks. I don't like the studder at the end of a show. And my wife hates it, which is even more important in this house.

Try this one.

If not clear enough search for channel changing with the HD PVR. Studder and freezing is a whole seperate issue and will get you lots of non-applicable results.

[sportera]

Originally Posted by Djc208

Try this one.

If not clear enough search for channel changing with the HD PVR. Studder and freezing is a whole seperate issue and will get you lots of non-applicable results.

You have been so much help. I'm going to keep at it and report anything else I find that helps.

I have one more (hopefully) question though that I've needed to get answered for a long time.

How do you do a "multiple word" search in the Sage forum??? I've tried using a "+" sign between words. I've looked into the FAQ. Still can't figure this one out and bet it would save me much time trying to find answers.

[Djc208]

Hmm, good question. I tried quotes around the phrase, and the header showed the search term as the phrase vice two (comma seperated) words, but the results were still for either word.

[sportera]

Originally Posted by Djc208

Hmm, good question. I tried quotes around the phrase, and the header showed the search term as the phrase vice two (comma seperated) words, but the results were still for either word.

Think I figured it out. I tried using "and" (with a space before and space after) to join search words.

[patja]

I find using Google to search the forums is easiest. just append site:forums.sagetv.com to the end of your search.