Clocks v Cores

[gilded07]

Well my HP D530 appears to have finally died. I've been troubleshooting it for over a week now. Removed the hdd and run memtest and diags from CD; changed the 512x2 memory modules around and it still freezes up at different points during the diags with the screen flickering. Initially, I thought the Windows update caused the problem 'case the problems started the Wednesday after the update. But given the problems continued while booting from floppy and my friend ran a hdd scan on the C: drive that showed no errors, I don't think it was the update. I have it on my computer bench now and I may continue to trouble shoot it to use as surfer/emailer but its probably time to upgrade the server.

At this point, I've spent way more time on it than I should have, given that I got it for a song on ebay in 2007 and its worked wonderfully for TV, music, avi's, and most recently, HD locals with a borrowed HDHR and HD100.

For a new build for a dedicated, headless SageTV server, I picked up the following today

• AMD Athlon II X2 250 3ghz / MSI KA780G AM2+ for $145 (reg price)
• Intel Q8400 2.66ghz / MSI P45 Neo2-FR for $150 (combo sale)

Both boards have room for my PCI tuners.

I also bought 1gb x 2 DDR2 800 and a coolermaster case with a built in 420w PSU. I'll reuse the IDE odd and fdd.

I've done some mild OCing with other builds in the past so if I have to, I think I can level the playing ground regarding processor speeds. However, I'd prefer to keep the build at stock speeds. I have Coolermaster Vortex 752 CPU air cooler available too - nothing fancy but better than the stock cooler.

I've never built with AMD but for what I need (.i.e non-gaming TV server), I think it will work.

My SageTV setup is in my signature. As I mentioned above, in addition to TV, the kids watch ripped avi's and listen to occasional music via extenders and placeshifters. The only thing different from the sig is that I've recently started watching recorded locals in HD, with an HDHR / HD100, using comskip.

Question: Given what is known about how the SageTV software is written and how it uses hardware, am I better with the faster AMD dual core or with the 4 core Intel CPU?

[reggie14]

Clock for clock, I think the Core2 processors beat the Athlon II processors. So, two cores alone from the Q8400 are probably comparable to the Athlon II X2 250. I'd definitely go with the Intel processor. The difference in performance shouldn't matter too much, since Sage doesn't make extensive use of multiple cores. But, the extra cores will certainly come in handy if you're running comskip or ShowAnalyzer on multiple simultaneous recordings on your server.

[SHS]

Sound like you have a bad capacitors on the motherboard or in power supply
Take look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by gilded07

Question: Given what is known about how the SageTV software is written and how it uses hardware, am I better with the faster AMD dual core or with the 4 core Intel CPU?

With any reasonably modern processor (Core2, Athlon 64 X*), especially ones over 2GHz, Sage itself is really never going to run out of CPU, no matter what you do. Sage just doesn't use much CPU in general.

So with that in mind, IMO it's better to have more cores. More cores means you can do more stuff without interfering with Sage. For example a quad core means you can run comskip on 3 programs simultaneously, at full speed, without even touching Sage.

Specifically to your question, the Intel one is probably significantly more powerful, even if the AMD were a tad faster with those more clocks, their so close it's irrelevant, and the extra cores are basically just twice the available horsepower.

[SWKerr]

For what you want to do the AMD Athlon II X2 250 would work fine but you could add a lot more performance for not much more money. If you are not gaming then the extra speed will not do much for you I would go with more cores. Even the $99 AMD Athlon II X4 620 at 2.6ghz would be more than fine for anything you want to do. That chip would also overclock to 2.9 with the stock fan no problem.

I would normally say keep away from the Intel 775 but if you can get that CPU and Motherboard for $150 buy it. That is a $160 CPU and a $100 motherboard. There is no upgrade path for the 775 socket but if you have a good CPU to begin with it is not a big deal. You will still need a Video card even it you intend to run headless. Only $30-$40 to add one with HDMI and VGA out.

I prefer Gigabyte and Asus motherboards. I would recommend the GIGABYTE GA-MA785G-UD3H at $90 and the AMD cpu of your choice. Tom's Hardware has a good article on the sub $100 AMD options.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...i-x3,2452.html

Really you did not list anthing that will materially stress the server.

[gilded07]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Clock for clock, I think the Core2 processors beat the Athlon II processors. So, two cores alone from the Q8400 are probably comparable to the Athlon II X2 250. I'd definitely go with the Intel processor. The difference in performance shouldn't matter too much, since Sage doesn't make extensive use of multiple cores. But, the extra cores will certainly come in handy if you're running comskip or ShowAnalyzer on multiple simultaneous recordings on your server.

So XP SP3 and SageTV v6.6 can see 4 cores and take advantage of them for actions like comskip?

[gilded07]

Originally Posted by stanger89

With any reasonably modern processor (Core2, Athlon 64 X*), especially ones over 2GHz, Sage itself is really never going to run out of CPU, no matter what you do. Sage just doesn't use much CPU in general.

So with that in mind, IMO it's better to have more cores. More cores means you can do more stuff without interfering with Sage. For example a quad core means you can run comskip on 3 programs simultaneously, at full speed, without even touching Sage.

Specifically to your question, the Intel one is probably significantly more powerful, even if the AMD were a tad faster with those more clocks, their so close it's irrelevant, and the extra cores are basically just twice the available horsepower.

I did have a few occasions with the P4 in the D530 when the server was streaming 2 .avi movies to two different MediaMVPs and comskip was running that I had brief studdering in the live TV or .avi movie. In 2 years I could count on my hand how many times this happened. But when it happened I VNC'd into the server and saw the CPU bumping 90-100%. I understand that the HD extenders remedy this problem by transcoding the .avi movies themselves thus easing the burden on the server hardware.

Thanks for your reply.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by gilded07

So XP SP3 and SageTV v6.6 can see 4 cores and take advantage of them for actions like comskip?

Windows XP can definitely see all 4 cores of a quad core processor. Sage itself is mostly single-threaded, meaning Sage itself will only use one core. There are some exceptions to that, mainly when dealing with transcoding. For instance, if you're running a Placeshifter client, Sage will start up a second process that will do the CPU-intensive transcoding on a different core than the main Sage process. The same thing applies when streaming anything other than SD-mpeg2 material to the MVP, since the Sage server has to transcode that video to mpeg2 for the MVP to play it.

Commercial skipping is done with a separate program that's distinct from SageTV (comskip and ShowAnalyzer are the two that everyone seems to use). Basically, you have a program like comskip monitor or DirMon2 that watches your recording directories for new files. When a new file is found (for instance, when a new recording starts up), that program starts up a new instance of comskip or ShowAnalyzer. If two recordings start up, then that program will start up two instances of comskip or ShowAnalyzer. Each of these instances can run on different cores.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by gilded07

I understand that the HD extenders remedy this problem by transcoding the .avi movies themselves thus easing the burden on the server hardware.

Just so you know, the HD extenders don't "transcode" .avi files themselves. The HD extenders are able to play back non-mpeg2 material (e.g., divx, xvid, mpeg4-, H.264, etc.) in most containers (e.g., avi, mkv, mpeg-ts, mpeg-ps, etc.), natively. Transcoding means converting a file from something like divx/avi to mpeg2. The HD extenders don't need to convert the file, it can just play it back directly. That means significantly improved video quality when playing things back.

[gilded07]

Originally Posted by SWKerr

I would normally say keep away from the Intel 775 but if you can get that CPU and Motherboard for $150 buy it. That is a $160 CPU and a $100 motherboard.

I know this but the real question none of us can answer is how much of that $160 price tag on the Q8400 is because of brand and recent image and how much is due to actual performance...stated another way, is the Q8400 $90 better performance than the Athlon x2 250 ($160 Intel - $70 AMD)? I guess it depends on which benchmarks one considers, right?

You will still need a Video card even it you intend to run headless. Only $30-$40 to add one with HDMI and VGA out.

Wow, I never noticed until I read your post but you're right. I'm looking at the box right now and there's not even onboard VGA on the P45 board. Darn. The 780G chipset does have onboard video...HDMI even.

I prefer Gigabyte and Asus motherboards.

I'm typing right now on an Asus P5QC with a Q9550 that I built about 10 or 11 mos ago for video editing / authoring. Love it.

Really you did not list anthing that will materially stress the server.

Thanks for the comments.

[gilded07]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Just so you know, the HD extenders don't "transcode" .avi files themselves. The HD extenders are able to play back non-mpeg2 material (e.g., divx, xvid, mpeg4-, H.264, etc.) in most containers (e.g., avi, mkv, mpeg-ts, mpeg-ps, etc.), natively. The HD extenders don't need to convert the file, it can just play it back directly. That means significantly improved video quality when playing things back.

ahhhh, I see. I didn't realize that.

[gilded07]

Originally Posted by SHS

Sound like you have a bad capacitors on the motherboard or in power supply
Take look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

I think you're correct. See this photo:

What do you think?

[SHS]

Originally Posted by gilded07

I think you're correct. See this photo:

What do you think?

Yup there bad caps I see it

[Tikker]

Originally Posted by gilded07

.stated another way, is the Q8400 $90 better performance than the Athlon x2 250 ($160 Intel - $70 AMD)? I guess it depends on which benchmarks one considers, right?

In the case of sage, 1 single core off of either of those processors is more than enough to run sage

the quad core will simply allow you to do more stuff without impacting sage itself

i think it's as simple as that

[gilded07]

I returned the AMD CPU and mobo and built with the intel CPU and mobo. All's well.

Since SageTV doesn't really tax the quad core server I can't really say that the setup is faster or more responsive. As my kids play .avi videos concurrently, that will be a good test but as has been stated on this thread, I don't think I'll run into any trouble with this setup.

For $260, I built an intel quad core server with 2GB of RAM. That's a pretty good value.

[sic0048]

I agree. It may seem that the quad core is overkill now, but it will allow you a longer period of time before you have to upgrade equipment again. That alone is reason enough to go with the quad core machine - especially at the same price point as the dual core machine. But just in the last month or so, there has been a major advance in Sage with the Playon plugin being available. However the Playon Server needs a decent amount of horsepower to transcode the videos. There is no telling when the next "big event" will be, but having extra power to spare will be helpful in the future.

Just my opinion - from someone else who built a quad-core machine for my SageTV (and automation system) server.

[gilded07]

Originally Posted by sic0048

I agree. It may seem that the quad core is overkill now, but it will allow you a longer period of time before you have to upgrade equipment again. That alone is reason enough to go with the quad core machine - especially at the same price point as the dual core machine. But just in the last month or so, there has been a major advance in Sage with the Playon plugin being available. However the Playon Server needs a decent amount of horsepower to transcode the videos. There is no telling when the next "big event" will be, but having extra power to spare will be helpful in the future.

Just my opinion - from someone else who built a quad-core machine for my SageTV (and automation system) server.

I've been reading about this Playon thing. I looked at their website and it looks very interesting. After reading your post, I also looked up the Charmed Quark website. I like it! It looks like a lot of investment in time and money but very cool.

[sic0048]

Originally Posted by gilded07

I've been reading about this Playon thing. I looked at their website and it looks very interesting. After reading your post, I also looked up the Charmed Quark website. I like it! It looks like a lot of investment in time and money but very cool.

CQC is pretty cool. It really doesn't do anything more for SageTV. But it does allow me to control different aspects of my house and tie seemingly independant systems into one cohesive system.

Something that I do specficially with SageTV is that I have the callerID popup plug in installed in Sage. Obviously my called ID pops up when a call comes in. But I also have CQC set to monitor Weather alerts. If a severe enough weather alert is issued for my area - CQC will send SageTV a custom popup request and it will popup on my Sage extender showing the details of the weather alert. I set customized each different type of alert that could be issued by the NWS and gave each one a rating. So a Winter Storm Warning isn't is not displayed on the TV, but a Tornado Warning is, etc, etc, etc. That way only the most urgent and severe weather alerts are popped up.

I really like this because now that we don't watch much live TV, we tend to miss the weather alerts. We have a weather alert radio, but seeing it on the TV is nice too. Also being able to screen out the lesser urgent alerts (based on my personal needs) is really nice too. I could also have the alerts annouced over my whole house audio system, but there is a point where the wife puts her foot down on the "geekiness" meter.

But CQC is all about having your HVAC system talk with your alarm system, talk with your lighting system, talk with your A/V system, talk with the NWS weather system, talk with your sprinkler system, etc, etc, etc.