CableCard OEM Restriction Lifted!!!

[ghostlobster]

Wow, active topic, and only 10 merges so far!
I'm loving all of the speculation going on in here and there are some great points. However, things in the Lobster house are driven by the waf...PERIOD. If I could implement a HTPC solution that cuts down the number of wires and cables, gets rid of 2 or more external devices (STB+HD-PVR) eliminates the sluggish channel change (yes, i'm using firewire) allows for live TV channel surfing, delivers HD content in HD, and allows me to use my existing hardware, I'm all for it.
Add to all of that, the additional format support granted with win7 on the 360 extender and Win7 MCE's gorgeous interface, then this is very tempting. No, I'm not going to be implementing this on Oct. 22, but I am certainly going to be keeping an eye on this and give 7MC a good look.
Of course, if SageTV could find a way to support CableCard, then the decistion would be very simple.

[HokiePerogi]

Originally Posted by ghostlobster

Wow, active topic, and only 10 merges so far!
I'm loving all of the speculation going on in here and there are some great points. However, things in the Lobster house are driven by the waf...PERIOD. If I could implement a HTPC solution that cuts down the number of wires and cables, gets rid of 2 or more external devices (STB+HD-PVR) eliminates the sluggish channel change (yes, i'm using firewire) allows for live TV channel surfing, delivers HD content in HD, and allows me to use my existing hardware, I'm all for it.
Add to all of that, the additional format support granted with win7 on the 360 extender and Win7 MCE's gorgeous interface, then this is very tempting. No, I'm not going to be implementing this on Oct. 22, but I am certainly going to be keeping an eye on this and give 7MC a good look.
Of course, if SageTV could find a way to support CableCard, then the decistion would be very simple.

Well said ghostlobster. I will be taking the same approach over the coming months.

[Brent]

I have to be honest here. These cablecard developments make me very tempted to trial a MC setup. I don't say this sort of thing lightly mind you.

But I would definitely have a difficult time not having a viable (imo) extender option - especially when there is no softsled option. Then we get to format support etc. Things are suddenly much better for MS MC, but still so far away in many aspects. But I admit its still tempting.

All the powers at SageTV take notice as I can't be alone in thinking this way - I would buy a CableCard tuner to go right alongside my HD-PVR and HDHR's. I am a higher-end (read spend more than the average joe) HTPC enthusiast with four HD200's, 1 MVP, 1 Sage Placeshifter and 2 SageTV licenses and will surely spend more. CableCard definitely became much more interesting to this HTPC enthusiast this week...

SageTV with CableCard, "softsled", excellent extenders, placeshifter, great 3rd party apps, great service/support, dedication to enthusiasts first etc. would be a very, very strong competitor to any other HTPC software.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Brent

I have to be honest here. These cablecard developments make me very tempted to trial a MC setup. I don't say this sort of thing lightly mind you.

I know what you're saying, and if it were Dish, or DirecTV, or anything other than CableCard (since my options are the worst provider in the country, or a local one with little HD), I'd probably be saying the same thing.

But I would definitely have a difficult time not having a viable (imo) extender option - especially when there is no softsled option. Then we get to format support etc. Things are suddenly much better for MS MC, but still so far away in many aspects. But I admit its still tempting.

Yeah, softsled (the lack of) was one thing that kept me from WMC. But when you really get right down to it, for TV, WMC probably meets my needs. I only need 1-2 cable/sat tuners and a couple OTA ones. On just the TV front, WMC would satisfy me rather well with a "server" and a couple extenders.

But Sage has become much more to me since they added media support and now I've got somewhere around 500 DVDs and probably closing on 50 BD/HD DVDs that are all managed by Sage. And they're all played flawlessly through the HD200 extenders.

The inability to transition that functionality to WMC is a dealbreaker, at least for now. Though I do find myself pondering if there are ways to make it not so....

All the powers at SageTV take notice as I can't be alone in thinking this way - I would buy a CableCard tuner to go right alongside my HD-PVR and HDHR's. I am a higher-end (read spend more than the average joe) HTPC enthusiast with four HD200's, 1 MVP, 1 Sage Placeshifter and 2 SageTV licenses and will surely spend more. CableCard definitely became much more interesting to this HTPC enthusiast this week...

True, too bad Cable is Evil, more evil than Satellite. Mediacon (the cableco here) was rated worst or second to worst in last year's JD Power survey.

SageTV with CableCard, "softsled", excellent extenders, placeshifter, great 3rd party apps, great service/support, dedication to enthusiasts first etc. would be a very, very strong competitor to any other HTPC software.

Cablecard would no doubt be a great addition to the Sage lineup, as would Satellite solutions.

[cat6man]

maybe i missed this........what is 'softsled'?

[Brent]

Originally Posted by cat6man

maybe i missed this........what is 'softsled'?

Sorry, I've said it so much I forget to explain when I say it anymore. Softsled was MS's name for software-based extender. They announced it was coming many years ago and then pulled the rug out from under everyone and never ever did it.

The equivalent for us would be BTV Link for BeyondTV or SageTV Client for SageTV.

With MC you have to put tuners in every HTPC you use and each PC has its own independent tuners, lineup etc. It simple sucks really.

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by cat6man

maybe i missed this........what is 'softsled'?

the wonders of the internet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softsled

[MickBurke]

So anybody know if the recently dropped OEM requirements for cable cards means that Sage is going to be able to support cable card any time soon??

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/09/09...m-requirement/

* merged 11 *

[ChaOConnor]

Check here bro...

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44085

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by Brent

Sorry, I've said it so much I forget to explain when I say it anymore. Softsled was MS's name for software-based extender. They announced it was coming many years ago and then pulled the rug out from under everyone and never ever did it.

The equivalent for us would be BTV Link for BeyondTV or SageTV Client for SageTV.

With MC you have to put tuners in every HTPC you use and each PC has its own independent tuners, lineup etc. It simple sucks really.

I think "softsled" is closer than people think.

[uberpixel]

Please don't make me go back to Windows Media Center!!!

Before i built my DVR system, I waited around for the perfect Windows Media Center setup to materialize. I finally realized it wasn't going to happen any time soon...

What I wanted:

DVR that runs on Windows Home Server.
Microsoft -1 (didn't bother to offer it on their own product)
SageTV +1 (works like a charm)

Software client that will run on my laptop
Microsoft -1 (why not? who knows?)
SageTV +1 (a little heavy for my laptop, but works great on my desktop)

Robust reliable dedicated set-top extender
Microsoft -1 (fan noise/I don't want an XBOX in my house)
SageTV +1 (solid reliable piece of equipment)

Single point access for TV and Movies
Microsoft +1 (both work although WMC required registry hack to work right)
SageTV +1

The biggest issue remaining is a clean and reasonable HD implementation. I don't want (can't afford) to have 2 HD-PVR's and rent 2 HD STB's from Comcast. At that point I might as well just surrender to comcast and get their HD-DVR...

Multi-tuner Cablecard on SageTV would be the last piece of the puzzle.

If the Sage gang is reading - MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!

[ghostlobster]

Originally Posted by Brent

I have to be honest here. These cablecard developments make me very tempted to trial a MC setup. I don't say this sort of thing lightly mind you.

Actually, I spent about 30 minutes tonight installing my HDHomerun drivers on my Win7 RTM box here and went into 7MC and actually used it for the first time. After installing the DivX .mkv patch for my .mkv movies, etc, I then started messing around with TV. It worked pretty well.
BUT, then the little surprise. I fired up my 360, and went to use it as an extender. Imagine my surprise when I was informed that in order to use a 360 as an MCE extender, you need an XBox Live subscription!? Huh? What the heck does one have to do with the other? I used to use my 360 as an extender when I used Vista MC, but I also had Live subscription at that time, so I don't know if this is a new requirement or not. I was pretty livid about that, as I cancelled my Live subscription a while ago because I was not using it.

[panteragstk]

I agree with stanger. I will NEVER go back to cable. I've used dish and directv and their overuse of compression/ horrid stb's is keeping me from going back. I'm hoping u-verse or fios will fill my tv void.

I've heard from more than one cable installer that cablecard is a nightmare to work with. I believe it since cablelabs was forced to create it. I can't help but wonder if either u-verse or fios support cablecards though.

I was also under the impression that the dish and directv htpc cards had been axed as well.

This is an exciting development for the htpc world, but people need to realize that this is not a finalized product. If I'm reading all of the news postings correctly the new devices have not even gotten cablelabs certification yet.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[ericwe]

Originally Posted by ghostlobster

BUT, then the little surprise. I fired up my 360, and went to use it as an extender. Imagine my surprise when I was informed that in order to use a 360 as an MCE extender, you need an XBox Live subscription!? Huh? What the heck does one have to do with the other? I used to use my 360 as an extender when I used Vista MC, but I also had Live subscription at that time, so I don't know if this is a new requirement or not. I was pretty livid about that, as I cancelled my Live subscription a while ago because I was not using it.

http://blogs.msdn.com/xblops/archive...right-now.aspx

BTW, I *think* you can use a Silver (free) XBL account in the interim...

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

I agree with this (although you are a little far feached on the delete recordings that doesn't happen with cable card there is no expiry date), but in the end it comes down to being able to get the content.

Far fetched or not... it has happened, and it can/will happen gain. I'll concede that this article was from 2005... but it would not be surprised if cablecard drm included an expiry flag, as well as a no copy flag, and a no record flag. We've already seen recent reports of people running VMC, where for some "glitch" they could not record a show because of a no record flag. Now, whenever i see, "glitches", i typically just see networks testing functionality to see if/how it has been implemented.

If some DRM is the only way it is the only way. HD is what I am about and the hd-pvr is not an ideal solution to me. The r5000 is but it is slowly dying out now that dish is not producing boxes capable of the mod anymore. It is a give and take. It may come down to OTA and QAM only for sage at some point and that is not enough for most (including myself).

I think it's valid to want to other viable alternatives... I just don't think that cablecard is the saviour that people that you are wanting it to be. If you think that cablecard tuner with it's drm is going to offer anything more than what a STB does, then I think you'll be disappointed. You only have to look at Tivo multi-room viewing and see that you'll be disappointed. How excited can you really get about being able to watch "non copy protected" recordings on any tv... but only on 1 tv at a time... Keep in mind, this solution is not something that Tivo wanted... but it's something that they are forced to do. I have a feeling that if sage were to implement cablecard, and allow for simultaneous multi-room viewing, then they'd be seeing the lawyers pretty soon after.

[hogburgs]

They have opened up cable card to non OE PC's, now this 4 tuner cable card from Ceton. Please tell me that Sage will eventually support this. Up to now we only have the analog hole for HD TV recordings.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/09/10...etails-emerge/

* merged 12 *

[Brent]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

the new devices have not even gotten cablelabs certification yet.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

You're correct. None of the new devices (Ceton & Hauppauge) have received certification. But the ATI OCUR cards will get a firmware update in a few weeks which will provide SDV support as well as "relaxed" DRM.

Originally Posted by stuckless

Far fetched or not... it has happened, and it can/will happen gain. I'll concede that this article was from 2005... but it would not be surprised if cablecard drm included an expiry flag, as well as a no copy flag, and a no record flag. We've already seen recent reports of people running VMC, where for some "glitch" they could not record a show because of a no record flag. Now, whenever i see, "glitches", i typically just see networks testing functionality to see if/how it has been implemented.

Agreed. BUT I would love to have CableCard as an option. For instance, when my analog dies completely I'll no longer use the PVR500 for the wife shows (she really doesn't seem to care about HD) and will need at least one more HD-PVR or something else that can record the encrypted QAM channels. I will never give up my HD-PVR though as it gives me complete freedom of what I record and what I do with those recordings. I even bought a HD Fury2 which I'm currently testing for whenever (if ever) they close the "analog hole." Because I don't trust the CableCo's.

[3rob3]

Originally Posted by ghostlobster

BUT, then the little surprise. I fired up my 360, and went to use it as an extender. Imagine my surprise when I was informed that in order to use a 360 as an MCE extender, you need an XBox Live subscription!? Huh? What the heck does one have to do with the other? I used to use my 360 as an extender when I used Vista MC, but I also had Live subscription at that time, so I don't know if this is a new requirement or not. I was pretty livid about that, as I cancelled my Live subscription a while ago because I was not using it.

Not sure what's happening here, but Xbox Live is definately NOT required. During the beta it was, but not on the RTM. My only guess is your trying to play a Divx/Xvid file, in which case it needs to download the media update from Live. A free account is all that's needed.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

I agree with stanger. I will NEVER go back to cable. I've used dish and directv and their overuse of compression/ horrid stb's is keeping me from going back. I'm hoping u-verse or fios will fill my tv void.

The real stumbling block for me to go back to cable is right now all but one of the channels I actually watch are broadcast in HD on Dish, and that last channel should be coming online soon. Going back to cable would mean giving up about 80 "HD" channels. Doesn't really matter if they're "real" HD or not, because regardless, the quality is usually much better than the SD version.

And then of course there's the fact I'd be stuck with the worlds worst TV service provider, Mediacrap/Mediacon.

Originally Posted by stuckless

I think it's valid to want to other viable alternatives... I just don't think that cablecard is the saviour that people that you are wanting it to be. If you think that cablecard tuner with it's drm is going to offer anything more than what a STB does, then I think you'll be disappointed.

Yes, especially with RVU appearing to gain traction with the industry, it looks like before long you'll be able to get a multiroom TV solution with cheap reliable CE hardware directly from your service provider.

And given all the DRM on WMC CableCard recordings (and seriously people, don't think they're going to leave the DRM-free "copy freely" switch turned on) RVU should be just about as functional as a WMC CableCard system, but with cheaper, better "extenders".

Maybe 6 months ago I'd have agreed that cablecard was "game changing" news, but since my HD PVR has been so reliable for the last few months, frankly I don't see what I'd gain with a "direct recording" system.

[JerryB]

Originally Posted by Brent

I even bought a HD Fury2 which I'm currently testing for whenever (if ever) they close the "analog hole."

I'm considering an HD Fury2 for exactly the same reason and would be interested in hearting how your testing goes.