WHS users - how do you back up the sys drive?

[wayner]

I think WHS is great with one exception - for some reason it does not back up the system drive. MS's response is to just reinstall the OS which is fine for most people but a pain in the butt for Sage users since you have to reinstall drivers, Sage, etc.

Therefore for those using WHS - what do you do to back up your system drive?

I recently had some problems where my WHS looked hosed as IIS wouldn't start which meant that I couldn't use the WHS console other than on the server PC or via RDP to the server. I believe that has been fixed by replacing an xml file, which is a HUGE relieve as I dreaded having to reinstall the OS, waiting for it to read my 5.2TB of shared files and then having to install drivers for my tuners and reinstalling Sage and praying that everything works as it did. Not good for WAF! I don't want to risk this again.

[gplasky]

Works well.

Scripts: SageTV backup scripts (dailly config, full weekly, full manual) This is more for Sage but you could add whatever you wanted. You would still have to install hardware drivers.

If you already own Acronis you could boot to it's restore CD and image the C: drive to an external hard drive. I haven't tried it yet but it should work. Clonezilla may work also.

Gerry

[wayner]

Right now I backup my Sage directory using SyncToy to a shared volume on the WHS drive so I am not as worried about the Sage condfiguration itself. The bigger issuer is installing drivers - the firewire drivers that I use for channel changing can be kind of flaky, if I remember correctly I had to manually install my ethernet drivers as well. That kind of stuff generally isn't too big a deal but it can take a while to find the drivers and to futz around - which you wouldn't have to do if you could back it up.

[Peter_h]

I run a RAID 1 on the OS. The OS is mirror across 2 - 250GB drives. I then backup the entire sage directory, HD homerun config file, and a folder with a copy of all currently installed drivers, to an external drive. I also have online storage via KeepVault and send all of the above to the online storage as well.

[stevech]

for offsite, I like the 8GB free from Gmail, used with gspace (FTP-like).
Free, Free.

local disk backup: Acronis TruImage automated. And SecondCopy, automated.

[davephan]

I think the more important question is, how do you recover the C drive? If you recover the C drive with an image that is taken in the past, are any of the files in the pool lost, including files that exist in the pool after the point-in-time when the C drive image was taken?

If you can recover by manually re-installing everything, and not loose the files in the pool, that would be a recovery path. Although it is not a path I would want to take because too many customizations, patches, configuration changes, and other programs would have to be done manually.

I recover my SageTV XP system periodically with images to make sure it is recoverable. I keep several sets of images on disks, on different computers. I do not store the image files on DVDs, since DVD recoveries sometimes fail, especially if the DVDs are several years old. There is some risk involved with a recovery test if you don't have a second computer for testing your recoveries. I do not have a second computer to test recoveries. I haven't had a failed recovery using images in many years.

In my opinion, there just isn't much point in doing any backups if you do not test your recoveries, and do not have confidence that the recovery will work when you need it.


Dave

[gplasky]

Image the C: partition, not the drive. What should work is a reinstall which will create C: partition and D: partition and rebuild the tombstones and everything on D:. Now overwrite the C: partition with the image you created of the partition and you should be back to right before the crash. Of course this is all in theory because I haven't had the time to test it yet.

Gerry

[wayner]

Gerry - If you do that will it wipe out everything that was on the D: partition of the system drive? If so then doesn't that mean that you could lose non-duplicated files if they happen to be stored on the D: partition of the system drive? I have my Sage RecordedTV files on my WHS shared volume but the TV share is non-duplicated.

[stevech]

I changed from image backup to whole-disk-clone (drives are cheap!). Faster, like 15 minutes. Have used that to recover not from drive failure but from virus. Clone frequently.

Usually clone from boot drive, a SATA, to another SATA. But Acronis can clone from SATA to IDE and I've used that to boot as well.

Upon problem just boot the clone drive, then restore the individual files saved by SecondCopy since the last clone.

Much easier for me.

[davephan]

Originally Posted by stevech

I changed from image backup to whole-disk-clone (drives are cheap!). Faster, like 15 minutes. Have used that to recover not from drive failure but from virus. Clone frequently.

Usually clone from boot drive, a SATA, to another SATA. But Acronis can clone from SATA to IDE and I've used that to boot as well.

Upon problem just boot the clone drive, then restore the individual files saved by SecondCopy since the last clone.

Much easier for me.

Have you tried testing the WHS recovery with the cloned drive?

After you clone the drive. Can you record more files, and let some time pass. Then replace the normal drive with the cloned WHS drive. Do you then loose any newer files or anything after the recovery? Does the system operate normally without errors after the recovery?

Dave

[othy]

My implementation isn't a true backup of the OS, but here's what I do. I stole the strategy from a thread here several years ago (I believe posted by MikeInMaui, but I'm not sure). It's not specific to WHS--I used it when I ran XP as well.

I downoaded Syncback (by 2BrightSparks), which offers a freeware version that is plenty adequate. I have a share called "Backup" (with duplication on, of course) and in that I make seven folders, one for each day of the week. Then in Syncback I create a script for each day. E.g., the "Monday" script runs each Monday in the wee hours of the morning and copies everything to the "Monday" folder, and likewise for every other day.

The net effect is a week of daily backups at any given time, stored on duplicated forlders. I could do more of course, but I'm comfortable with 1 week.

So I don't bother to back up the entire OS installation. I've reinstalled WHS a few times (Trial version, MB upgrades, etc) and it's so quick and painless that I can't be bothered to implement any kind of image-based backup or whatever, especially if it would cost money. Most days I just back up wiz.bin and twice a week I copy the entire Sage installation. Again, I could back up everything if I wanted.

It would be cool if the WHS version of Sage had a built-in option to install in a way that data files are placed in a share instead of on the sys drive.

Tim

[davephan]

Originally Posted by othy

So I don't bother to back up the entire OS installation. I've reinstalled WHS a few times (Trial version, MB upgrades, etc) and it's so quick and painless that I can't be bothered to implement any kind of image-based backup or whatever, especially if it would cost money.Tim

Tim,

You could try using PING, Partition Image is Not Ghost, which is free.

http://ping.windowsdream.com/

The image is taken and restored by booting to a CD. You could try imaging your C and D drive. Then run your system awhile. Then try to recover with the PING image. You could then find out if the drive 'pool' functions after the recovery, if you are missing files recorded after the image point-in-time, or if there are error messages after the recovery.

Dave

[wayner]

Originally Posted by othy

So I don't bother to back up the entire OS installation. I've reinstalled WHS a few times (Trial version, MB upgrades, etc) and it's so quick and painless that I can't be bothered to implement any kind of image-based backup or whatever, especially if it would cost money. Most days I just back up wiz.bin and twice a week I copy the entire Sage installation. Again, I could back up everything if I wanted.

IMHO reinstalling the OS is major pain in the butt and would likely take several days. You have to first reinstall the OS, then let it rebuild the whole file tombstones or whatever it is called - how long is that going to take for 5.2TB of data? When I have installed WHS, which I have done a couple of times, I often find that the OS doesn't have the correct drivers for my network card - so you have to find these and reinstall. Same thing with video drivers - I have a video card in my WHS box as it has a monitor, keyboard and mouse attached.

Then you should probably apply all updates which will also take a while.

Next step is to install drivers for devices such as HD-PVR, other tuners and firewire. Hopefully you can find the drivers you installed before since some times later drivers don't always work the same.

Finally it is time to reinstall Sage. I backup my Sage folder every day, but I am not always up to date with my Sage versions - I am currently a few months behind. Therefore I would have to make sure I can find the same version that I have to reinstall or I will have to install the latest version and hope that it doesn't cause any stability issues.

It would be a lot easier having a image of the disk, or at least the C partition, to reinstall!

[wayner]

Originally Posted by stevech

I changed from image backup to whole-disk-clone (drives are cheap!). Faster, like 15 minutes. Have used that to recover not from drive failure but from virus. Clone frequently.

Just to clarify - when you do this it makes a clone of both partitions on the drive, the system C: drive as well as the data partition on D:?

How can it only take 15 minutes if your drive is full? Let's assume that you have a 500GB drive - surely it takes more than 15 minutes to transfer 500GB of data?

[stevech]

Originally Posted by davephan

Have you tried testing the WHS recovery with the cloned drive?

After you clone the drive. Can you record more files, and let some time pass. Then replace the normal drive with the cloned WHS drive. Do you then loose any newer files or anything after the recovery? Does the system operate normally without errors after the recovery?

Dave

Sorry I confused you - I don't use WHS. (I see no benefit)

[stevech]

Originally Posted by wayner

Just to clarify - when you do this it makes a clone of both partitions on the drive, the system C: drive as well as the data partition on D:?

How can it only take 15 minutes if your drive is full? Let's assume that you have a 500GB drive - surely it takes more than 15 minutes to transfer 500GB of data?

I clone the boot drive in my everyday PC. It's 120GB and has two partitions.
Sage PC (runs in garage, not used for web/email), uses XP on RAID1 with boot partition and video partition.

Of course, the disk at risk of virus is the everyday PC that does email and web surfing, and that's the one with the 120GB drive that I clone.

[wayner]

Thanks Steve - since you are not using WHS it is a bit of a different situation.

[Peter_h]

Originally Posted by wayner

IMHO reinstalling the OS is major pain in the butt and would likely take several days. You have to first reinstall the OS, then let it rebuild the whole file tombstones or whatever it is called - how long is that going to take for 5.2TB of data? When I have installed WHS, which I have done a couple of times, I often find that the OS doesn't have the correct drivers for my network card - so you have to find these and reinstall. Same thing with video drivers - I have a video card in my WHS box as it has a monitor, keyboard and mouse attached.

Then you should probably apply all updates which will also take a while.

Next step is to install drivers for devices such as HD-PVR, other tuners and firewire. Hopefully you can find the drivers you installed before since some times later drivers don't always work the same.

Finally it is time to reinstall Sage. I backup my Sage folder every day, but I am not always up to date with my Sage versions - I am currently a few months behind. Therefore I would have to make sure I can find the same version that I have to reinstall or I will have to install the latest version and hope that it doesn't cause any stability issues.

It would be a lot easier having a image of the disk, or at least the C partition, to reinstall!

You could minimize a lot of the driver problems by slimstreaming your install disk with all the appropriate drivers. That should cut down a good chunk of your re-install time, in the event you do have to.

[briands]

Originally Posted by Peter_h

You could minimize a lot of the driver problems by slimstreaming your install disk with all the appropriate drivers. That should cut down a good chunk of your re-install time, in the event you do have to.

For slipstream, you still have to go through the process of rounding up all of the latest (working) drivers for your hardware. Is there a way to capture all of the currently installed driver files (as well as Windows updates, etc)?

[briands]

Originally Posted by Peter_h

You could minimize a lot of the driver problems by slimstreaming your install disk with all the appropriate drivers. That should cut down a good chunk of your re-install time, in the event you do have to.

I don't think slipstreaming is a big timesaver if you are looking at one install since you have to round up all of the updates as well as the latest (working) drivers for your hardware. Is there a way to capture all of the currently installed driver files (as well as Windows updates, etc)?