PC Analogous To HD200?

[PeteCress]

The wife has decided she wants to start exploring the Internet.

Logical vehicle seems tb a small PC connected to her existing Vizio TV - the same TV that has an HD200 connected to it.

Question: Has anybody found a PC that will run Windows XP and which is analogous to the HD200 in the respect of:

• Low power consumption
• Silent operation
• Small form factor

No local disc drive needed (unless for a system drive than cannot be implemented via SDD).

Seems like HDMI output would be a Nice-To-Have, but analog RGB would be perfectly adequate.

The big deals would be silence and the low (7 watts for an HD200) power consumption.

[GKusnick]

Low-end netbooks can be had for under $300. I think you're going to be hard-pressed to beat that for price and convenience. Plus that way she can web-surf and watch TV at the same time.

I'm not an expert but a quick Google search turned up some netbook power draw figures in the 20W range.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by PeteCress

The wife has decided she wants to start exploring the Internet.

Logical vehicle seems tb a small PC connected to here existing Vizio TV - the same TV that has an HD200 connected to it.

Not to be combative, but why does it seem logical to surf on the TV? That just seems like it would be problematic, mice don't work great on the couch and a Gyration is annoying for any extended use. Plus unless you've got a really big screen or sit really close it can be hard (small text) to use a TV for stuff like that.

Question: Has anybody found a PC that will run Windows XP and which is analogous to the HD200 in the respect of:

• Low power consumption
• Silent operation
• Small form factor

An ION based system maybe.

No local disc drive needed (unless for a system drive than cannot be implemented via SDD).

For no local drive you need network boot which is quite hard to do with Windows.

[Brent]

The only reason to use the web on a TV is this: Hulu, Netflix Watch-now etc.

But I hate using the web on the TV otherwise. We have laptops for that I second checking into the ION thing as well although I have no experience with them yet.

[stanger89]

I used to surf on my HTPC occasionally. It worked reasonably well, but I sit about 1.5 screen widths from the screen. And the Gyration worked, but the mouse is kind of annoying. Much prefer my current method of surfing on the laptop while watching something.

Don't miss losing the ability to surf on my projector, after replacing my HTPC with an HD200, at all.

[PeteCress]

... Gyration...

??

All I get from Google is something about remote controls.

Or is that it?

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by stanger89

...why does it seem logical to surf on the TV? That just seems like it would be problematic, mice don't work great on the couch and a Gyration....

This would be from a chair that is used for reading and watching TV.

The TV being a 17" LCD - that seems to me to put up a pretty good rendition of Windows XP's UI... and I'm kind of jaded in that respect.

The mouse came to my mind too, but she says that just a small cutting board on the arm of the chair will work. I have my doubts....

No wires though - I did proof-of-concept with my Asus 901 and an MS wireless keyboard/mouse.

Maybe a wireless keyboard that has built-in trackball or something....

The only "table" option would be the kitchen - but the same deal: PC over TV.... but that would mean replacing the big analog TV in there with a new digital TV

[stanger89]

http://www.gyration.com/?l=en#produc.../miceKeyboards

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by PeteCress

This would be from a chair that is used for reading and watching TV.

The TV being a 17" LCD - that seems to me to put up a pretty good Windows XP UI... and I'm kind of jaded in that respect.

That seems really small unless it's basically sitting on you lap, as if you were at a PC desk. If it's across the room like a normal TV I'd think that would be very hard to read (small fonts).

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by stanger89

http://www.gyration.com/?l=en#produc.../miceKeyboards

That looks pretty slick.

Do they actually manage to damp the movement so that it's as smooth as the demo?

I'm guessing there's a "Gear" setting where large movements get geared down to smaller mouse travel.

The "annoying for extended use" comment rings true now that you have said it - although it never would have occurred to me.

That being said, if it's as advertised, I've gotta have one just on GPs.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Brent

The only reason to use the web on a TV is this: Hulu, Netflix Watch-now etc.

[...] I second checking into the ION thing as well although I have no experience with them yet.

Before any gets any bad ideas, I think its important to point out that the Ion platform isn't really suitable for Hulu and Netflix. Ion is nice in that it has some hardware video acceleration, but that doesn't work with flash or silverlight video (that might change next year with Silverlight 3.0). And the poor little Atom processors don't have enough power to play back and scale flash/silverlight videos in software.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by PeteCress

That looks pretty slick.

Do they actually manage to damp the movement so that it's as smooth as the demo?

I'm guessing there's a "Gear" setting where large movements get geared down to smaller mouse travel.

I didn't watch the demo, but it really doesn't work anything like a "normal" mouse. You can't position precisely. You can get it close, and then get it to the right place, but unlike a normal mouse you can't just "go there". It's not 1:1 like a normal mouse.

The "annoying for extended use" comment rings true now that you have said it - although it never would have occurred to me.

I'd say it works great as a "backup" to have for your HTPC for when you need to download/update drivers or install something. And they probably work OK for presentations and stuff. But I'd never want to use it for any "primary" use. You've got to get used to pulling the trigger with your finger and clicking with your thumb (the trigger enables the gyro "tracking").

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Before any gets any bad ideas, I think its important to point out that the Ion platform isn't really suitable for Hulu and Netflix. Ion is nice in that it has some hardware video acceleration, but that doesn't work with flash or silverlight video (that might change next year with Silverlight 3.0). And the poor little Atom processors don't have enough power to play back and scale flash/silverlight videos in software.

Can somebody tell me how Sage gets what they get out of the HD200's mobo? Seems to me like it's a PC... just running Linux instead of Windows.

If that's true it seems like somebody somewhere sb selling a functionally-similar box for Windows:

- No moving parts
- Boot from SDD
- Able to render full-motion HD video
- Draws < 10 watts...

Seems like there sb a decent-sized niche for such a device.

[stanger89]

http://www.sigmadesigns.com/Products...30_series.html

It's far from a PC. It's a SOC (System On a Chip) specifically designed for media. It's got a (rather pathetic by PC standards) general purpose CPU (I think it's either an ARM or MIPS CPU), but the real guts are a special purpose full hardware video decoder (see the specs for codecs), and dedicated audio DSPs, so the CPU itself does nothing but drawing the UI.

It runs a very stripped down version of Linux, since there's really no hardware to speak of and the codecs are built into the SOC, the image itself is very small. It's stored on some flash (not an "SSD") and boots from that.

In comparison, Windows requires about 1Gb (closer to 4GB in the case of 7 ), and even in the latest versions of Windows have media playback sort of "bolted on". Video playback isn't very efficient on the general purpose hardware, and is subject to the problems/interruptions inherent with a non-realtime OS, so even more horsepower is necessary to mitigate that.

It's basically the difference between a "do everything" solution and a special purpose dedicated solution.

An ION based system is about as close as you can get with "PC" hardware.

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by stanger89

An ION based system is about as close as you can get with "PC" hardware.

Just stumbled on this offering: http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=wH1q2VTqyLXaCw1f

Sounds like the ticket to me, although I haven't figured out if the thing will run XP.

Anybody have one?

[mikesm]

The new Dell zinio HD should be a pretty nice compac HTPC which would make a great sage client, though you have to deal with downws drivers, codecs, etc...

It's a little taller than a mac mini, but supposedly has an nvidia IGP that does full HD audio, and it's not atom based, so things like hulu, etc... should work great.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by PeteCress

Just stumbled on this offering: http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=wH1q2VTqyLXaCw1f

Sounds like the ticket to me, although I haven't figured out if the thing will run XP.

Keep in mind the thing comes with Vista Home Premium. I'd say you're better off with Vista than XP, for its hardware video acceleration support. But, the thing should run off of XP, though it might be a pain to figure out how to install it.

Also, as I said earlier, don't expect to be able to play back Flash or Silverlight video with this thing. The dual-core Atom processor can't handle it, and video acceleration doesn't work in Flash or Silverlight.

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Keep in mind the thing comes with Vista Home Premium. I'd say you're better off with Vista than XP, for its hardware video acceleration support. But, the thing should run off of XP, though it might be a pain to figure out how to install it.

Also, as I said earlier, don't expect to be able to play back Flash or Silverlight video with this thing. The dual-core Atom processor can't handle it, and video acceleration doesn't work in Flash or Silverlight.

I was wandering around in Staples yesteday and stumbled on one of these for $200: http://tinyurl.com/ko6sn6

The price was right and it seemed to fulfill the immediate need, so I bought it.

At first I tried installing XP but got a blue screen.

Then I asked myself exactly *why* I wanted to replace Vista - and didn't come up with a cogent answer for this case, especially since I was able to install FireFox (consistant UI with my other boxes....) and in light of the fact that this particular PC was not excessively loaded down with marketing tools.... (a few... but easy to get rid of).

Seems to work well enough.

Has HDMI output, so only one cable to the TV.

Runs PlaceShifter a-ok, although I already have an HD200 under that TV; just gotta pull another strand of Cat5 to that room. (FWIW, as far as I'm concerned, somebody else's assertion that when pulling cable one should pull at least three strands to each destination - leaving two unterminated until needed later - is a very good suggestion.)

But I'm still looking forward to the future of Ion-type web PCs....

[aflat]

If your still looking around, you might want to check out the popcornhour b-110. Its the guts of a popcornhour(and the HD100 I think) but in standard mini-ITX form. So you can add hard drives, and other peripherals. I haven't used it, I don't know if it can run windows, I don't know much about it, I just know it's out there.

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by aflat

If your still looking around, you might want to check out the popcornhour b-110. Its the guts of a popcornhour(and the HD100 I think) but in standard mini-ITX form. So you can add hard drives, and other peripherals. I haven't used it, I don't know if it can run windows, I don't know much about it, I just know it's out there.

The guy has some nice presentations.

Wasn't evident to me either if it ran Windows.

But I can see a direction there - more and more mobos coming out with no moving parts, low power consumption, and formidable video rendering capability.

Seems like it's just a matter of time until we have a choice among several that can run XP and fulfill aforementioned goals.