Why use a NAS?

[valnar]

This question has been bugging me for years, so I thought I'd finally ask. I'm a politically incorrect person so I never get caught up in the latest jargon for something that already has a name. A NAS is a file server. The term file server was invented decades ago. I have no idea why certain marketing people decided to call it a "NAS" all of the sudden. It's just a friggin server (albeit limited in what it can do).

So now the question. Why do Sage users who have a NAS.... have a NAS? Why not just build one server with Sage and all your media files? What is the allure of having two servers up & running and using more electricity than necessary? As I've been reading on these forums for awhile now, it does nothing but create potentially more problems by having the video off the Sage server local drives. And depending on how you have Sage setup, it has to travel the LAN twice.

So, what am I missing?

[Fuzzy]

I can see the advantages of a NAS in only certain situations. A traditional Sage setup alone is not one of them.. However, if you are using this storage as a media source for an extender in stand-alone mode, or using it for general storage from a variety of ittermitantly used PC's, it makes a lot of sense. However, as soon as you have a situation where you have your sage server up and running 24/7, it ends up making more sense to have the storage in the server.

[briands]

I am in the middle of a situation where this would be handy... I want to convert my Sage server from XP to WHS... if the media files were all on a NAS, my family could continue to watch on the extenders in standalone mode and even on the client PCs (albeit with a different UI) while I stumble through the Sage server transition. As it is, I'll be forced to make this transition in off peak hours (meaning no sleep for me tonight)

[valnar]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

as soon as you have a situation where you have your sage server up and running 24/7, it ends up making more sense to have the storage in the server.

I think that is where I'm coming from. So if you don't leave your Sage server on 24/7, I can see the desire for a lower cost (electricity) server/NAS. But then the question is more pertinent to those who have a full time Sage server. Why the NAS?

[Fuzzy]

Can't answer that... Look in my sig.. no NAS...

[valnar]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Can't answer that... Look in my sig.. no NAS...

I know, I saw. My question is for any NAS user reading this thread.

[kevine]

If you use a setup such as WHS, active media should be there. You are adding more points of failure when you add another storage location. However, I could see using a NAS with removable hot swap drives for backup and archival purposes. This would enable you to create offsite backups of data. There is a reason WHS had duplication AND backup features. Duplication is great for when a hard drive crashes but what about when someone accidently deletes the family photos. Duplication does not help there as it is deleted from all copies.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by kevine

There is a reason WHS had duplication AND backup features. Duplication is great for when a hard drive crashes but what about when someone accidently deletes the family photos. Duplication does not help there as it is deleted from all copies.

Enable Shadow Copy. Navigate to the network drive where the file was located and right click any open area in the explorer window and choose properties \ Previous Versions. It will list several previous versions of the files and folders on that drive. Pick one and click the restore button.

Gerry

[brainbone]

If Windows had the ability of Unraid*, or if it were easy to run SageTV on an unraid server**, I probably would. Since this isn't an option for me, I have the SageTV server record to local disks, and archive to the NAS server. All DVDs and other media are sent directly to the NAS server. SageTV clients pull from both the SageTV server and the NAS.

* Unraid is a NAS server that gives you parity protected data via a single parity drive (can survive a drive failure) but also allows you to mix and match any drive size giving the ability for easy future capacity expansion by simply adding drives and SATA controllers (Up to 16 drives). And let's face it, we all will eventually need more storage. (Even though drives are relatively cheap, windows data redundancy options takes too much storage overhead, and/or won't allow the mixing of drive sizes).

** Unraid is a custom linux distribution. While it's possible to install unraid on your own linux install, that could also host a SageTV server, you open the stability can of worms, since this configuration is not supported by Tom, the author of unraid. Since I prefer to keep my data storage as stable as possible, this is not a viable option for me.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by valnar

So now the question. Why do Sage users who have a NAS.... have a NAS? Why not just build one server with Sage and all your media files?

For me, it was quite simple, I already had a Sage server that was maxed out capacity wise. I needed more space and it was going to be very expensive and difficult to replace 1.75TB of storage with a solution that would be larger plus support expansion.

At the time I found the ReadyNAS X6, which cost about the same as a good RAID card, but I could get just that, plus an HDD and have the increased total capacity I needed for quite a bit less money/effort than replacing the RAID array in my server.

[tmiranda]

I used to have a NAS that stored most of my recorded shows and imported videos. When I set it all up (several years ago) the main reason was I could not cram all of the drives in one server without creating a thermal and cabling nightmare. Most of my drives were 320GB (remember when they were "big"?) Things that should have been "simple" were not:

- Finding a power supply that could handle the power requirements of 10 drives plus the motherboard was expensive.

- I had to buy a bunch of splitters for the molex power connectors.

- All of those PATA cables were not easy to pack into the case and limited airflow.

- It was a PITA to find a motherboard that could handle all of the drives + the extra controller needed.

The list goes on. So several years ago using a NAS made a lot of sense for me. I could split the drives between two machines and that would mike life good.

When affordable 1.5TB drives came out the need for the NAS disappeared so I build a new server and ditched the NAS.

[valnar]

All the reasons listed so far make sense, as they are a hardware capacity limitation or cost issue. I can understand that. However, is anybody using a NAS on purpose, as a desired Modus operandi for Sage, cost notwithstanding? Or is the NAS just from organic growth of your needs?

[stanger89]

OK, how about this. If your Sage "server" is also your main HTPC/frontend machine in your viewing room, it can get very difficult/costly to put a lot of storage in that machine while maintaining the the desired form factor and noise levels, and still maintaining the cooling that's critical to long HDD life.

You're really not going to want a machine with 5, 10, 20 HDDs in an area where form factor and noise are concerns. A NAS is a great solution to such a problem. You can keep your main SageTV "server" in the viewing environment but move your noisy storage to a location where it won't be intrusive.

[valnar]

Sounds like the best example so far.

[Fuzzy]

agreed, that seems to be the best reasoning I've seen for NAS+SageTV use... That said, I much prefer my setup, where even though I have a dual purpose (Server/Client) machine, it is stored remote from my viewing location, and I just have HDMI+USB stretched to the TV. I think my cabling was cheaper than a NAS would have been, and it removes the need to buy more expensive, silent/small form factor, gear. I also don't have the performance issues associated with NAS.

As for the hardware space/power limitation, I feel it would be much better to expand into an external eSATA or SAS enclosure. It would provide the power supply requirement, have it's own cooling, but retain the 'local' performance benefits.

[simonen]

For me I simply wanted a small portable NAS like my dlink where I store family videos, documents and pictures so in case of a fire or other situation, I can simply grab it and run. I don't keep my movies or recorded content on it, because they don't mean as much to us.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by simonen

For me I simply wanted a small portable NAS like my dlink where I store family videos, documents and pictures so in case of a fire or other situation, I can simply grab it and run. I don't keep my movies or recorded content on it, because they don't mean as much to us.

Obviously, these are good reasons fo using them (though a cheaper external USB or Firewire works just as well, and is easier to set up elsewhere). This discussion is more focused on their use as sage recording volumes.

[valnar]

Originally Posted by simonen

For me I simply wanted a small portable NAS like my dlink where I store family videos, documents and pictures so in case of a fire or other situation, I can simply grab it and run. I don't keep my movies or recorded content on it, because they don't mean as much to us.

I've got a 2TB USB HDD for that. I keep it offsite and bring it home every now and then when I do a backup.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Obviously, these are good reasons fo using them (though a cheaper external USB or Firewire works just as well, and is easier to set up elsewhere). This discussion is more focused on their use as sage recording volumes.

Is it? I must have missed that, I don't record to my NAS.

[nyplayer]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Obviously, these are good reasons fo using them (though a cheaper external USB or Firewire works just as well, and is easier to set up elsewhere). This discussion is more focused on their use as sage recording volumes.

I would never record to a NAS all you are doing is adding another point of failure. I use a NAS but I record to internal drives on my Sage Server then move to NAS anything I want to keep.