Running On Windows Server?

[PeteCress]

After reading a number of posts, I got the idea that a special version of SageTV was needed in order to run on Windows Home Server (or "real" Windows Server?).

Then I came across a post that seemed to indicate otherwise.

Where I'm going is drive pooling.

Seems like a nice feature tb able to have a bunch of physical drives that look like a single drive to the system.

I've installed Windows Server (not Home Server) a few times in the past and, to me, it looked superficially like Windows XP.


No need to watch TV or watch recordings on the server box.

Bottom line: Is it as simple as installing Windows Home Server and then installing plain-vanilla SageTV?

[gplasky]

The WHS version of SageTV (the .msi download) is special such as it is installed and shows up as a WHS add-in. What happens is SageTV is installed as a service. Technically I believe it runs the same as installing SageTV as a service on other Windows platform. It is the capability as running as an add-in and having access to it through the the WHS console which makes it different from the normal SageTV download. I don't understand why you would want to install plain SageTV on WHS. You loose the capability of running it as an add-in and access to it through the console. You could accomplish the single drive thing on a Windows PC or server with a RAID configuration (RAID 5 for example) and a Sage install.

Gerry

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by gplasky

You could accomplish the single drive thing on a Windows PC or server with a RAID configuration (RAID 5 for example) and a Sage install.

That's an option I've been exploring.

Still need to resolve some questions - posted to the Windows XP NG.

I'm assuming the "Dynamic Disk" option = RAID.

My main concern is whether the drives are still portable post-DynamicDisk mode.

i.e. If the server's mobo goes up in smoke, can I just pull the three or four drives that comprise the Dynamic Disk out, put them in another box, and see the same "Dynamic Disk" and all it's data?

If "Dynamic Disk" works, seems to me like that's the least-cost option - in terms of dollars, manhours, and added complexity.

I'm guessing that "Server" flavors are somehow faster/more efficient - but I haven't seen any problems in that vein for my use.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by gplasky

You could accomplish the single drive thing on a Windows PC or server with a RAID configuration (RAID 5 for example) and a Sage install.

No, that's *not* the same thing as the drive extender technology used in the WHS pool, WHS drive pools don't require identical disks and you can add more or remove one much easier with WHS. If your RAID controller dies, you may not be able to rebuild either.


Also, a dynamic disk does not equal RAID:
http://www.petri.co.il/difference_be..._2000_2003.htm

If you do go with WHS, use the WHS version of Sage...

[BrianDC]

WHS gives you more than the "drive pool" It provides a nice interface to a headless server + client backups for up to 5 (?) workstations. (+ other cool features that I can't remember)

If you are only interested in the drive pool functionality, maybe you want to look at Drobo or something similar.. just pop in any number of drives, and it will balance them and make them appear as one large drive to windows.


I'm running WHS, and would recommend it just for the ability to back up your workstation around the house! Built in quasi raid is also pretty kick ass.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by BrianDC

WHS gives you more than the "drive pool" It provides a nice interface to a headless server + client backups for up to 5 (?) workstations. (+ other cool features that I can't remember)

10 workstations and, yes, the backups are a very nice feature too. It will also do health monitoring of the server and client workstations, remote access, media streaming and it runs Sage quite nicely too.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

No, that's *not* the same thing as the drive extender technology used in the WHS pool, WHS drive pools don't require identical disks and you can add more or remove one much easier with WHS. If your RAID controller dies, you may not be able to rebuild either.


Also, a dynamic disk does not equal RAID:
http://www.petri.co.il/difference_be..._2000_2003.htm

If you do go with WHS, use the WHS version of Sage...

The OP was interested in seeing "a bunch of physical drives that look like a single drive to the system."
The answer to everything isn't always WHS. Both a RAID setup or utilizing dynamic disks will get him to the multi drives as a single disk scenario. He wasn't concerned with the technology or how it got there.

Gerry

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by gplasky

The OP was interested in seeing "a bunch of physical drives that look like a single drive to the system."
The answer to everything isn't always WHS.

I never said that the "answer to everything" is WHS, I said that RAID and the pool are not the same just because they both show up as a single drive and I explained some of the differences.

EDIT:
Besides, everyone knows that the answer to life, the universe, and everything is 42...

[PeteCress]

The OP was interested in seeing "a bunch of physical drives that look like a single drive to the system.

The OP is starting to warm up to the idea of HS.

Trolled the Windows.General NG re/Dynamic Disks and got a couple of what I'd call strongly negative assessments on their portability.

My primary concern is what happens when the mobo takes a dump and I need to migrate said drives to another box without being able to restore from nightly backups.

It's sounding like a RAID card might be one portable solution. But the impled requirement of identical drives would be a negative.

If HS offers similar portability - and I can score a copy for $100 at EggHead as somebody said some days back - it seems like it's additional functionality would make it more attractive.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by PeteCress

My primary concern is what happens when the mobo takes a dump and I need to migrate said drives to another box without being able to restore from nightly backups.

With RAID you may or may not be able to rebuild the array. With dynamic disks it may not be portable and it's usually not expandable or it doesn't support any kind of data redundancy, depending on what type of dynamic volume you have.

It's sounding like a RAID card might be one portable solution. But the impled requirement of identical drives would be a negative.

See above, there have been cases where RAID arrays would not rebuild and with WHS you can mix and match drives as you see fit.

If HS offers similar portability - and I can score a copy for $100 at EggHead as somebody said some days back - it seems like it's additional functionality would make it more attractive.

With WHS, the data drives from the pool are readable on any computer that supports NTFS file system.

[Skirge01]

I'm another big proponent of WHS and the drive extender tech, along with the rest of what it offers. One thing I'm not big on is duplication. For critical files, such as photos, financials, etc., it's the right solution. For recordings? In my opinion, it's a waste of space, no matter how cheap drives are/get.

For some sort of protection of my recordings, I went with FlexRAID. It's not proprietary and does not change the data, so nothing is lost if the mobo dies, the RAID card fries, or the OS takes a dirt nap. It uses parity on a separate drive, but your data drives can be of any size and speed. Also, if you happen to lose more than your fault tolerance (I can explain that, if you want), the data on your still functioning drives will remain live and accessible.

Other people may chime in about unRAID, but I didn't want yet another computer running 24/7. That's why I built a server in the first place: so I'd only have a single computer in the house running 24/7.

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

...See above, there have been cases where RAID arrays would not rebuild and with WHS you can mix and match drives as you see fit.

With WHS, the data drives from the pool are readable on any computer that supports NTFS file system.

Sounds like a slam dunk to me.

Just ordered WHS from EggHead.

[ghostlobster]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

Besides, everyone knows that the answer to life, the universe, and everything is 42...

This is a point I've been trying to emphasize to everyone on every opportunity I get.

EDIT: Now, shut up and put this fish in your ear.

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

I'm another big proponent of WHS and the drive extender tech, along with the rest of what it offers.

Can you suggest a WHS support NG or forum?

I've got it installed, but am trying to dope out the pooled drive scheme.

Disconnected my two data drives before install, so at install time it had 300-gig IDE drive partitioned 20/280 and an empty, unformatted 1-tbyte drive.

After install, looks like it put the system in the 20-gig partition, left the 280-gig partition alone except for putting some system files on it, and formatted the 1-tb drive - but did not assign it a letter.

Looks like both partitions of the 300-gigger plus the 1-tbyte are included in "Storage Hard Drives".

Just on GP's I gave the 1-tbyte a letter (P).

Now I'm ready to copy the contents of my two data drives to "Storage Hard Drives".

I'm guessing I've got about 1.2 tBytes to copy to, but I can't figure out what it's called in the context of drive letters.

I want to create a "Movies" directory and a "Recordings" directory in the pooled space. Then I'll copy the contents of one of the data drives to it.

Then I'll add the data drive to the pool - erasing it's contents and making more space availble. Won't lose anything bc I've already copied it to the pool, right?

After that, I'll connect the second data drive and repeat the two steps above.

But, bottom line: what entity am I looking for (so I can create the desired folders and copy to them) that represents all that "Storage Hard Drives" pooled space?

[gplasky]

You need to read up on WHS before starting such an excursion. You never address the drives by the drive letters. You always use the "Shared Folders on Server" icon to copy your data to the "pool". (That icon represents the pooled drives. You create those shares on the pooled drive through the WHS console. (And only through the WHS console) I'm giving you the basics to follow. Of course you can create folders anywhere you want. And of course you can address the D drive through explorer and get to your 1 tb drive through the C drive and the folder "fs". The point is you're not suppose to and you would be defeating the purpose of why WHS is setup the way it is. You should really read up on it BEFORE doing the install. And you should also look at SME's tutorial because you need to format that 1 tb drive in 64k blocks if you expect to store any recordings on it.

Gerry

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by gplasky

You should really read up on it BEFORE doing the install. And you should also look at SME's tutorial because you need to format that 1 tb drive in 64k blocks if you expect to store any recordings on it.

I think it's time for the obligatory second install.

The part about drive letters being passe' has finally sunk in.

But on the first install I expected tb prompted to choose the system drive and have the opportunity to re-partition it. From what I've read so far, 20 gigs is not gonna hack it. I was also aware of the 64k thing - probably from skimming SME's tute.

I guess I'll go back to SME's tutorial first. Anybody have a link to it? I've lost mine and SME does not accept private messages.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by PeteCress

I think it's time for the obligatory second install.

The part about drive letters being passe' has finally sunk in.

But on the first install I expected tb prompted to choose the system drive and have the opportunity to re-partition it. From what I've read so far, 20 gigs is not gonna hack it. I was also aware of the 64k thing - probably from skimming SME's tute.

I guess I'll go back to SME's tutorial first. Anybody have a link to it? I've lost mine and SME does not accept private messages.

If this is dedicated to Sage and backups for PCs in the house 20 GB is plently. I have almost 10GB free on my 20 GB system partition. I run WHS, Sage, 2 analog tuners, a HDHR and a HDPVR. I have the SageWebserver running, comskip, mobileweb, all the tuner apps including Arcsoft and VLC for troubleshooting. I've imaged the system partition for a quicker recovery.

SME WHS Tutorial

Good place to start. But this is only a piece of the puzzle. This will get your pooled drives formatted to 64k block size. This is NOT going to tell you the basics of WHS or best practices for installing and using WHS. I suggest the We Are Served forums and any of the Microsoft WHS forums and various white papers on the Internet.

You may think it is Windows but it is another OS (and it's also a server OS) with different features, capabilities and ways of doing things.

Gerry

[Skirge01]

As Gerry suggested, do some further reading. Search out some reviews of WHS and read up on those. You'll really get a good feel for how it's supposed to work. I'll be happy to walk you through some stuff once you're better acquainted with the basics of WHS.

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

As Gerry suggested, do some further reading. Search out some reviews of WHS and read up on those. You'll really get a good feel for how it's supposed to work. I'll be happy to walk you through some stuff once you're better acquainted with the basics of WHS.

Thanks, I'll take you up on that after, as you say, attaining some basic level of competance.

My usual MO for things like this is to back everything up; put the backups in a drawer or someplace where I can't get to them too easiy; and then just sort of stumble in.... doing maybe 2-3 installs until I get it right.

Sounds really crude, but the 2-3 installs help cement the basics in what's left of my mind.

Right now, I *think* I've got 64-k blocks on all 3 drives - after following SMS's methodology.

Is there any way to verify that once they've been added to the pool?

I don't see anything in Disk Management or WHS' Console.

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by gplasky

If this is dedicated to Sage and backups for PCs in the house 20 GB is plently. I have almost 10GB free...

I am glad to hear that bc before my second install, I yanked the system drive out; put it in another PC; and re-partitioned it to 100-200.

But the WHS install process reverted me to 20-280.

Maybe something to do with my having partitioned it, but not formatted the second partition?

Water over the dam... I'm sticking with 20.... and I note that the initial install is less than 5 - which, IMHO, is pretty good. I think the best I could do when trimming XP Pro for my itty-bitty laptop was 4.7 gigs.