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General Discussion General discussion about SageTV and related companies, products, and technologies. |
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#21
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#22
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The SageTV HDExtender handles all media formats, can view ripped DVDs (VMC can’t as far as I know) and is cheaper. I have heard the interface argument a lot but Sage can look very nice and modern with SageMC and some of the themes. It is also customizable. I have always found the MCE\VMC interface difficult to navigate. It looks pretty but takes a lot more clicking and effort to find what I am looking for. Generally I think it sucks. I can't say when I used MCE that it was very reliable. Driver problems, Guide problems, missed all kinds of recording not to mention you had to have a analog tuner or it would not work. If I recall it still has that limit in Vista. I would like to know if anyone has tried to move or recover their MCE setup. I have always abandoned it but based on what I know it would be very difficult to move machines or recover my show info and favorites. Microsoft centric. Open standards. God help you if you want to play or import something Microsoft didn't invent. They support a few but them seem to think they shouldn't have to. Last edited by SWKerr; 03-09-2009 at 06:12 PM. |
#23
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Trying not to duplicate, but there may be some overlap
Sage Pro: - Designed for extensibility, almost anything can be added to the platform - Genuine sense that those that work for Sage are listening, and delivering features that matter to me (i.e. I can tell that the SW is built for me to use, not for HP to sell). May not matter if the OOTB MC experience is exactly what you're looking for - Anyone can customize Sage, how many of the STV developers are professional SW developers? - Isn't afraid to trust someone else's tech, MS burns crazy dev $ constantly recreating the wheel (dvr-ms & wtv) so that it can be done their way. While there are some benefits (like embedded metadata), the experience is clearly not targeted to end-user convenience (i.e. broken 3rd party tools, and not just the free ones). Also speeds time to market. - Sage can add features that MS is afraid to - Easy to backup (wiz.bin, properties files); when I rebuilt my OS my migration plan was writing down all my favorites and reentering them back in after a rebuild. Sage Con: - Cutting edge = some bleeding (i.e. demuxer); although I'd be fine if I didn't bring it on myself ![]() - Too much tinkering required VMC Pro: - stable - requires less tinkering to get working (Sage really needs to reduce the amount of notepad time required) VMC Con: - while developers can create addins that create new experiences (OML, vmcNetflix), if you want to add functionality to the OOTB experiences (TV, DVD Library, Videos) it is incredibly difficult. Simple things like marking the scrub bar with commercial spans are impossible. - building addins is complex (MCML), platform fights you along the way - working with DVR-MS files is a PITA, MS underdocuments the container (even though it's technically part of the PSDK), and deliberately obfuscates media type information - while the UI is pretty, there is only one choice - no direct control over codecs Other: - Problems with playback (i.e. VMR trouble) are not unique to Sage, taking a quick browse through TGB there are plenty of users who can't get decent playback. - VMC supports 2 NTSC, and 2 ATSC tuners w/o hacks; Fiji supports more |
#24
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#25
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Forgot to add:
- Video / DVD bookmarks (MC doesn't do either OOTB, although video bookmarks were added to 7MC) |
#26
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I'm not sure if it has been mentioned, but SageTV currently supports digital subchannels. Vista doesn't, you need to go to TV Pack 2008 which has it's own set of issues, or Win7 to get subchannel information which is a problem with the digital switch over.
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#27
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__________________
Server: Sage 6.5.9 - X2 3800+, DFI NF4 MB, 1 GB, 300 GB HD (system disk), NV 7600GS, - Windows XP SP2 Client 1: Sage 6.5.9 - E7200, Abit IP35 Pro, ATI 4850 with HDMI connect to Denon 3808CI and Sony A3000 SXRD TV Client 2: HD200 connected to Denon 3808CI and A3000 SXRD TV Client 3: Media MVP to 15" Toshiba LCD Client 4: HD100 connected to Samsung 23" 720P LCD Client 5: HD100 connected to Vizio VX37L |
#28
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Pros of sage: - The development tools are documented! Trying to get info from VMC api's is painful. Dvrtoolbox(the comskip of VMC) doesn't work for commercial skipping anymore because MS documents their api's differently then they actually work. - Extenders that work like they should. They play just about anything you throw at them instead of having to jump through hoops to get a mkv file to play. Pros of vmc: - It's pretty. SageMC is nice, but VMC is pretty out of the box. This is only a partial pro since I prefer functionality over prettiness, but I did pick SageMC over the default UI for a reason. - MyMovies. It's really nicely done. There are addons that are close for Sage, but MyMovies is really well done. - The LiveTV is nicer with VMC. Rolling buffers and faster channel changes made my wife like VMC better for LiveTV. Fortunately we don't watch it much. ties: - Community support. Sage has a great community, but it is small. You get better answers from the Sage forums, but there are just so many more people on TheGreenButton that it's hard to compete. Someone somewhere on that forum has seen just about every issue you can think of. |
#29
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That being said yes there are some vendors out there writing apps for media center but the majority of valuable apps that the average user uses are freeware written by other media center users. The original poster pointed to netflix and that was a user developed app not provided by netflix themselves. |
#30
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My DVDs, ripped to mpg, do not upscale on my TV, and you can definitely tell the difference. My OTA signal, using the same HDHR looks entirely different on the Sage. I was a MS advocate for a long time. It would take a lot to swing me back!
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#31
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SageTV vs Windows Media Center Podcast
Okay folks. The podcast is complete and ready for a listen if anyone's interested. I joined four others in a debate/conversation on the merits of SageTV vs. Windows Media Center.
Hopefully I didn't misstate anything in the podcast, but if I did point them out by commenting here or on the HTPCentrc podcast website. There is no way to really cover each difference with pros and cons of the two in an hour long podcast, but we covered many of the high points. I'll do a followup blog post next week on GeekTonic to get more detailed. You can listen to the SageTV vs. MS Media Center podcast here |
#32
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The ability to weigh tuners. meaning you can specify that tuner x is used before tuner y if they both can access the same channels. It came in handy back when I had a tuner directly connected to a cable box.
Ability to handle as many tuners ass your computer can handle without the need to deal with registry settings and other BS. The ability to listen to music via the web server instead of just set recordings (although I admit the microsoft solution is more polished.) To my knowledge the new file format introduced in the tv pack isn't editable yet. The ability to specify multiple drives as storage folders. An example was that I used a D partition and a separate hard drive set to G to store recordings. with MCE I had to choose either G or lose the D partition. |
#33
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I listened to the podcast - very interesting. The VMC guy came off as cocky IMHO. (e.g. when he said the Sage interface looked like it was drawn by a child in crayon.) Brent, you have way more patience than I do
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__________________
Sage Server: 8th gen Intel based system w/32GB RAM running Ubuntu Linux, HDHomeRun Prime with cable card for recording. Runs headless. Accessed via RD when necessary. Four HD-300 Extenders. |
#34
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Had there only been two of us debating I might have been a little tougher. You'll note though that the MC users even put out a few positives about SageTV in the conversation so they were nice at times as well. I'm posting a better comparison on GeekTonic this week that will include many of the points everyone's made above - that should create some fun discussion. |
#35
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It was a good listen. I didn't think there was any cockiness in the comments (at least nothing worse than you'll get here when a UI thread comes up
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#36
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#37
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I guess one of the main points that could have been addressed better was upgrades:
From 2.2.8 to 6.5.9, I"ve paid exactly once...$30 for v6. P |
#38
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![]() I'll be sure and mention it in my GeekTonic post... |
#40
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Softsled...it seemed like a computer client was brushed over as unimportant these days. While extenders are nice and simple, if you want to do more than watch TV at a location, with the least clutter...a client computer is the ticket. I have three clients: Daughter's laptop in her room, Wife's office, My office. They are all rather small, so adding TV's and extenders would take up space & money. Clients are awesome and MCE can't do Softsled. P |
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