HD200: Any Hope Of WiFi?

[PeteCress]

Somewhere I heard that an HD stream takes about 20 mbps.

Truth or fiction?

I've got 65 available on my "N" router.

If an HD200 could handle a USB WiFi dongle and the bandwidth were there, I could save some fairly-heinous cable pulling - and also have the rather attractive option of being able to move that particular TV and it's associated HD200 box from room-to-room.

?

[Brent]

I always say, if there is any way to wire it do it that way as your much less likely to have issues (interference etc). However, if wireless is your only option there is a way to do it.

Luis, posted this thread explaining how he got it working with his HD200. I think if the SageTV team could add a driver to the firmware for one or two USB Wifi dongles that would be a very nice addition.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by PeteCress

Somewhere I heard that an HD stream takes about 20 mbps.

Truth or fiction?

If my memory serves me correctly a full broadcast (ATSC) MPEG-2 HD stream is 19.2 Mbps. The H.264 signal from an HD-PVR is somewhat less so 20 Mbps would be about the max.

[stanger89]

Broadcast HD is <= 19.4Mbps, HDPVR recordings are <= 13Mbps Average/20.2Mbps peak. Blu-ray can be up to almost 50Mbps.

The common theme though is HD is very sensitive to interruptions. You may have "65Mbps available" but if that connection ever drops below one of the above thresholds, you're likely to have glitches.

[stevenkd]

I have a new Dlink DIR-825 router and have a DAP-1555 media bridge. These can operate at a 5 ghz band that is supposed to work for streaming HD. My HDD-200 is not here yet so I cannot test it. I am gettting good throughput on the 5 ghz channel, but right now it is real close to the router. Dlink now has a new version of the media bridge DAP-1552 which is a little less expensive. If you don't want to get a dual band router you can use 2 of the bridges, one attached to your current router and one on the end with the HDD-200. Dlink has several dual band routers. Linksys also makes a couple of models now. The 5 ghz band has less range, but more throughput. Resarch it carefully to see if it fits your needs, there are a lot of reviews and opinions, seems to be split evenly between people that like them and those that don't.

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by Brent

Luis, posted this thread explaining how he got it working with his HD200. I think if the SageTV team could add a driver to the firmware for one or two USB Wifi dongles that would be a very nice addition.

On the way home from work yesterday I stopped at Micro Center and blew $106 on the D-Link DAP-1552 that StevenKd cited.(http://tinyurl.com/bwptjx)

I looked at LinkSys first bc that's what I've always used - but there were too many negative comments on both product and support.

Works like a charm in the same room.

Tried it in an upstairs room last nite, and the best I can say right now is that the jury is still out. Stranger89's "...HD is very sensitive to interruptions..." is starting to ring true, but I haven't looked into other possible causes - especially the ever-present user RCI.

When I finish typing this, I'm going back to Micro Center and get a thousand-foot roll of Cat5e and a four-port switch; then start pulling cable.

I'll keep the D-Link device bc it sb useful if/when I we get small TV whose intended use will be moving from place-to-place in the house. Maybe build a little carrying tray with a handle on it to hold TV, HD200, power strip... and have a single AC cord trailing.

[wayner]

I would also recommend the Motorola NIM-100 ethernet over coax option. I bought this for the bedroom which is hard to wire with CAT5 and it works well with a Sage HD extender. They are also pretty cheap on eBay.

[TallMomof2]

+1 for the NIM 100, I'm able to easily stream 1080i to the HD200 while recording 2 streams from the HDHR on my NIM100 loop.

[lfilomeno]

HD is bandwith hungry, no question about. I am sure that my expereince with the Netgear AP/bridge combo has been sucessfull because after I ran my test and moved the equipment to different locations for testing purposes, they are now pretty much facing each other thru the hallway. HD recordings sometimes give me a studdering stop or two but most of the time I can watch the stream with no problems. I have not tried a Blu-Ray stream but I know it will be too much for the Netgear's to handle (Please prove me wrong Netgear engineers!). I am using the N band exclusively. No G or A allowed! Once I finish my improvised "wiring closet", I will post pictures of my setup and how the wireless equipment is placed in the house. I am waiting for my second HD-200 to arrive since the wife wants one in the bedroom! So the agreement (you guys know how it is if you are married) was to take the SageTV server and Sat tunners out of the room, and replace them with a silent HD-200. I might have to run a couple of cables to the DSL router (I put out the hammer drill too early) but the living room extender will be ran exclusively from the wireless N bridge. If my house would had been build out of wood like most hourses in the US are, in order to run a SageTV effectively, I would have ran cable drops all over the house. Don't got me wrong, I am happy witht he way the Netgear equipment is working but I know that to take my media center setup to optimal performace, I would have to lay out cable drops thru the house.

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by lfilomeno

I will post pictures of my setup and how the wireless equipment is placed in the house.

Here's what I'm currently working towards.
.
All the pieces are in operation except for two of the HD200s (which are in the mail as I write this)
but they are not networked or positioned as shown.
.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by PeteCress

Here's what I'm currently working towards.
.
All the pieces are in operation except for two of the HD200s (which are in the mail as I write this)
but they are not networked or positioned as shown.
.

Recommendations:

I would recommend making both of those 100mb switches gigabit switches. You're going to want the bandwidth when you have the server delivering multiple HD streams.

I would also recommend bypassing the wireless for wired connections or make sure you have the wired connections as options in the area. You would probably be better off running Placeshifter on any of the wireless laptops and make sure Placeshifter is set to dynamically allocate the bandwidth for Sage playback.

Gerry

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by gplasky

You would probably be better off running Placeshifter on any of the wireless laptops and make sure Placeshifter is set to dynamically allocate the bandwidth for Sage playback.

HD video brings the Atom-processor laptop to it's knees - wire or no wire - so my use is confined to watching shows that I have transcoded to mp4.

A few nights ago, Charlie Rose interviewed the guy who started NVIDIA and it sounded to me like Atom-processor "web PCs" are going to be rendering HD video in the near future.

I priced gigabit switches and they were muy expensivo.

Max concurrent viewers will be 2.

One reason I'm connecting the Silicon Dust HomeRuns directly to the server is to take that load off of the LAN.

Might still blow the bucks if people think it's a no-brainer though.

[gplasky]

These don't seem expensive.

NETGEAR Gig switch
$37 for an 8 port switch.

NETGEAR 5 port jumbo frames
Same price for 5 ports w/jumbo frame support



Gerry

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by gplasky

These don't seem expensive.
NETGEAR Gig switch
$37 for an 8 port switch.
NETGEAR 5 port jumbo frames
Same price for 5 ports w/jumbo frame support

Agreed.

I was looking at a 16-port box. Maybe the relationship between ports and price is non-linear. I'll probably stop by Micro Center after work later this week.

Bit the bullet tonite, retired my Verizon D-Link router, figured out how to config PPPoE on the LinkSys GigaBit-N and put that into service, so I'm at least part way to gigabit.

BTW: I'm running Cat 5e. My impression is that, although it might not get all the way to 1,000 mbps it can get a lot faster than 100 - like 300-350 for sure. Would you concur?

Finally, I guess I could Google it... but what's "jumbo frame"?
I guess it's gotta be better than "itty-bitty frame", right? -)

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by PeteCress

Agreed.

I was looking at a 16-port box. Maybe the relationship between ports and price is non-linear. I'll probably stop by Micro Center after work later this week.

Bit the bullet tonite, retired my Verizon D-Link router, figured out how to config PPPoE on the LinkSys GigaBit-N and put that into service, so I'm at least part way to gigabit.

BTW: I'm running Cat 5e. My impression is that, although it might not get all the way to 1,000 mbps it can get a lot faster than 100 - like 300-350 for sure. Would you concur?

Finally, I guess I could Google it... but what's "jumbo frame"?
I guess it's gotta be better than "itty-bitty frame", right? -)

Cat5e is capable of gigabit speeds. You may not actually see full gigabit speeds, but that has more to do with hard drive limitations (most hard driives are only capable of sustained speeds of 70MB/s which is obviously 540mb/s).

As far as Jumbo Frames.....A frame = packet. It refers to the size of packets that are sent from NIC to NIC. Standard frame size is 1500 bytes, but Jumbo frames allows for upto 9000 bytes. I should point out, that in order to take advantage of Jumbo Frames, everything on your network must support Jumbo Frames which generally means everything has to be gigabit capable.

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by paulbeers

Cat5e is capable of gigabit speeds. You may not actually see full gigabit speeds, but that has more to do with...

I keep hearing that a network's speed is limited to it's slowest component.

Would that suggest that the HD200's Ethernet port must be faster than 100 mpbs?

[stevech]

the 20MHz bandwidth of 802.11b/g does not yield a net IP layer (after overhead of 802.11 and IP/RTP) speed high enough for a 20+Mbps constant bit rate for HD. Add competition (CSMA) for channel access among neighbors, and it gets worse.

the 40MHz mode of 11n at 2.4GHz is rarely practical because impact of using 2/3 of the entire band for that 40MHz, and all the WiFi and other 2.4GHz ISM band devices (cordless phones, etc).

The 40MHz mode of 11n at 5.8GHz is far less problematic. But as of now, it's difficult to find a correctly implemented suite of client device/bridge plus an access point or a router with integral access point (wireless router). Lot of mistakes, lies and naivete in these products.

Remember too that 802.11b/g/n speed slows in steps as the signal strength declines. Sharply so. The modulation order (bits/Hz/sec, where Hz is the bandwidth, say, 40MHz) is called spectral efficiency or yield. Higher yield, by laws of physics, needs a higher signal to noise (and interference) ratio. No free lunch.

IMO: you want reliable 20Mbps: use cat5 at 100BT.