What is your WAF?

[TallMomof2]

The only reason my husband is remotely interested is commercial skipping but he watches too much live to really implement it. I'd have to build up a library of shows that he watches first. I heart comskip and instead of sending flowers I made a donation.

[raoul]

Generally, my WAF factor is high and she puts up with all my tinkering and actually loves SageMC (especially enhanced with FanArt). Commskip without even touching the remote is also a big hit (we came from BTv where we used to have to use the remote). Occasionally she gives me a hard time if it ever has a hiccup, and I hear "F-ing Sage", accompanied with a grin. She just loves to give me a little kick every now and then.

Recently, we had a drop in the WAF factor as she had a baby shower at our house and it was just one of those days for Sage. Somehow, a visitor a few days before had cleared all of our music playlists, so that was no longer an option. It was confusing as the playlists still existed but no longer had any songs. In addition, the DTV music channels disappeared from the guide, so they weren't available either (returned with a reboot). She was forced to sit in quiet telling everyone how cool the system was that didn't work. *sigh*

I decided to make it up to her and get PlaceShifter installed and working on our laptop. She went into labor two nights ago, and once the drugs were working and we had nothing to do, I fired up the laptop and started streaming our shows into the hospital room (lucky for me they had wifi setup). We got caught up on our recordings while we waited for the event. Now we are sitting here in recovery room still watching Sage, and it simply rocks. This was my first application of placeshifter, and it did not disappoint.

I will probably continue to hear the "F-ing Sage" intermittently, but I know this event secured the WAF factor to be pegged at the top.

[stevech]

Sage lacks an integral database backup. The wiz.bin backup file (.bak) is worthless because of how they implemented the fall-back.

How is TiVo made quite bullet-proof?

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by raoul

Somehow, a visitor a few days before had cleared all of our music playlists...

Create your playlists in a separate app (like WinAmp) as .m3u files, and that way there is another copy besides the one in Sage's "mystery location". Then you can save a backup somewhere else on your drive. Sage will play .m3u playlists.

[webwalker]

Tivo is made quite bullet proof by two mechanisms: They own the hardware, and not a darn thing is open.

The owning the hardware bit is one that I think Sage could learn from, especially when it comes to moving in to back-end solutions for hosting the database. The HD series of extenders is generally good, but Sage is still a 'tinkerer delight' rather than a box-and-contents consumer grade product like the Tivo.

I've wondered if Tivo has a patent on the industrial design for their 'peanut' remote. After having researched more remotes than I used to know existed, I'm convinced that the layout is the very best for DVR based navigation. (Nav at the top, transport control in the middle, numeric at the bottom.) They even pack the electronics at the top and the batteries at the bottom so that the sucker balances in your hand; not something I can say about most remotes.

Concerning the hardware internals, I find it interesting that Tivo appears to have switched from PowerPC architecture to hardware agnostic JVM so that they could appeal to more manufacturers. (That's how Roxio is selling the Tivo software in a box.) I think that it certainly validates Sage's initial instinct to go with Java as their platform.

All of that said, until Sage (Frey) produces a 'reference platform' and refreshes their UI rather than relying on grassroots improvements, they're going to find that poorer products with flashier UI and deeper pockets will nibble away at their niche.

[bjp999]

After about a week of use, the WAF in my house is moderate.

Her biggest complaint regards having all the shows jumbled together on the recordings screen. With Tivo, she had her own Tivo box, and all of the shows on it were hers. (She could connect to my Tivo box to transfer shows when needed). An ability to put her shows in one folder and mine in another would make her a happier camper).

[wayner]

You should be able to do this using Groups (in SageMC), or even moving her shows to a different folder and then using the Video Library to access it rather than TV. You can even put a link for her in the Main Menu. As long as the folder that you move it to is still in the Video Library then it will continue to show up in Recorded TV as well. You may need to rename the files to delete the Program Title and just use Episode title.

For example create a folder called \Videos\SWMBO\ and then use something like SageJobQueue to automatically copy over all shows that are "her" shows and rename. And then add a new MainMenu item in SageMC with her name.

[bjp999]

Originally Posted by wayner

You should be able to do this using Groups (in SageMC), or even moving her shows to a different folder and then using the Video Library to access it rather than TV. You can even put a link for her in the Main Menu. As long as the folder that you move it to is still in the Video Library then it will continue to show up in Recorded TV as well. You may need to rename the files to delete the Program Title and just use Episode title.

For example create a folder called \Videos\SWMBO\ and then use something like SageJobQueue to automatically copy over all shows that are "her" shows and rename. And then add a new MainMenu item in SageMC with her name.

Thanks for the tip. I had SageMC on my list of things to do. Will move it to the top of the list and try to get this working.

Just to clarify - if I use SageMC "Groups", I don't need to do all the copying and renaming? If so, I'll likely try that first and move on to the other if that doesn't do what she wants.

We'll both be heros if I can get her something that looks more like she was used to seeing - which is basically a list of HER shows - and when you select a show - a list of the episodes for that show.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by webwalker

Tivo is made quite bullet proof by two mechanisms: They own the hardware, and not a darn thing is open.

The owning the hardware bit is one that I think Sage could learn from, especially when it comes to moving in to back-end solutions for hosting the database. The HD series of extenders is generally good, but Sage is still a 'tinkerer delight' rather than a box-and-contents consumer grade product like the Tivo.

I've wondered if Tivo has a patent on the industrial design for their 'peanut' remote. After having researched more remotes than I used to know existed, I'm convinced that the layout is the very best for DVR based navigation. (Nav at the top, transport control in the middle, numeric at the bottom.) They even pack the electronics at the top and the batteries at the bottom so that the sucker balances in your hand; not something I can say about most remotes.

Concerning the hardware internals, I find it interesting that Tivo appears to have switched from PowerPC architecture to hardware agnostic JVM so that they could appeal to more manufacturers. (That's how Roxio is selling the Tivo software in a box.) I think that it certainly validates Sage's initial instinct to go with Java as their platform.

All of that said, until Sage (Frey) produces a 'reference platform' and refreshes their UI rather than relying on grassroots improvements, they're going to find that poorer products with flashier UI and deeper pockets will nibble away at their niche.

Short of a reference platform, I believe Sage should develop a certified licensing system. This would allow hardware companies to create Certified SageTV hardware. A Basic server, with a select set of input options, easily configured. Even better, is you might get to a point where you could get a SageTV Licensed Blu-Ray player.. ;-)

[HD_davester]

I've done that in real life for a number of software companies. HCL (Hardware Qualification List) is *expensive* to do. Both manpower and hardware. I would suggest that the list would also need to include ethernet switches and NICs used. This was (and is) certainly true for other streaming protocols like iSCSI. If you talk to anyone in the business, it's pretty onerous to do that with PCs. And if you DO create a list, the questions about "why isn't my doo-hickey supported" and assumptions that it DOESNT work on any particular doo-hickey NOT listed never end. It's a pit of despair for many. And did I mention expensive?

My use of the product has evolved over time to realize that the server should be separate (not run the full client locally) to be really stable and scalable. That frees the desktop for remote administration, as well. I can monitor and configure the server resources in real-time.

My emphasis is on stability. No sage? No TV at my house.
It has a UPS and I've run it all on generator for days when the power fails ( nice to have all that recorded material!)

I think the notion of a reference platform is quite simple, really.

Quad core CPU
2GB or better RAM
Fast SATAII disk with deep (16M or 32M cac
( avoid the seagate 1.5TB disk bug! )
Good quality Gigabit NIC(s)

USB or network encoders.
I really like the HDhomerun because it's a well behaved network animal.

All clients should be remote appliances or placeshifter client.
Network should be gigabit or enterprise quality 100BT.
Use the full client if you wanna flog your GPU.

[HD_davester]

I went back and read the topic after my digression.

If the "soaps" don't record, I know about it.
Dude, this beats the crap out of video tape and unmet expectations for a recording.

She's my QA team.
She loves Sage, while she only "likes" me.

I've actually been concerned about "custody" of the system.
( I can always build another, but this one is *tested* )

She brags about it to other people. She knows what a Tivo is and likes Sage better.

There is no cable connection to the plazma screen. No sage, no TV.

Not bad for a product that cost $59.00 for my first server.
I've spent a good deal more on hardware, and I've just spent $850 on HD and digital encoders (to replace my analog setup). All to run a product that costs under $100 to start.

[webwalker]

HD_Davester,

I'm with you completely. Its a dinkum rig if you set it up right. It doesn't even need that much processing whoopass unless you're doing comskip. (And if you're patient and keep a deep queue, you can set that up to slog through it full blast overnight when there is nothing on at 4am but infomercials.)

The HD200 is a sweet little box. But for that godawful remote, the combination lets you get in to a top end configurable system for merely twice the cost of an HD Tivo. But no recurring cost afterward (guide data) updates only when you want them and most of all, less drm.

[aflat]

Originally Posted by webwalker

HD_Davester,

I'm with you completely. Its a dinkum rig if you set it up right. It doesn't even need that much processing whoopass unless you're doing comskip. (And if you're patient and keep a deep queue, you can set that up to slog through it full blast overnight when there is nothing on at 4am but infomercials.)

The HD200 is a sweet little box. But for that godawful remote, the combination lets you get in to a top end configurable system for merely twice the cost of an HD Tivo. But no recurring cost afterward (guide data) updates only when you want them and most of all, less drm.

But the HD Tivo has a subscription cost. Either $300($400 if you don't have another tivo) for lifetime, or $10(?) a month. This was what pushed me to Sage. I have 2 Series 2 Tivos, both with lifetime. They did what I wanted, I could stream anything from my PC to the Tivo, and the wife was happy. I wanted to get some HD on the TV, and my Bluray rips on a series 2 looked decent, but I knew they could be better. So best case for 1 Tivo HD was $550 which included lifetime, at the $300 rate. I almost picked one up on craigslist for $150, then would have had to do $300 for lifetime. Sage was $250 for a server and 1 HD200. I'll pick up another soon, for a grand total of $450 for the 2. Tivo would have cost me $1000 minimum for 2. Nevermind that I can tweak till my heart is content.

My WAF is fairly high. She asked why we would want Sage over Tivo. I showed her comskip, or really, didn't show her the commercials. I would always grab the remote and FF through commercials when we had Tivo, she would always tell me "I always forget I can do that". We've had Tivo for 4 years, and she still forgets. With comskip, she doesn't even have the option to forget. That sold her right there.

[webwalker]

My wife is hot-up on comskip, too. She despises most commercials, and the longer we go without seeing them, the more discriminating I become. A well made commercial is rare. So rare a gem that I won't bother mining for it.

I calculated that the Sage software paid for itself in the first 6 months of use just because the EPG data is part of the purchase price.

The day Sage goes subscription for the EPG, I'm giving up and going back to filmstrips. I'll happily pay a once a year fee to keep the software humming, track down bugs and kill them, and adapt for new hardware. But I'll be damned if I'll pay for EPG data when it is essentially a commodity. (That said, I'd pay a LITTLE more for GOOD EPG data.)

M

[sam99]

I will chime in with my high WAF factor with Sage. Until I have more free time to play with studio, I just leave sage pretty much alone. We moved over from Time Warners Sci Atl dvr system, never had a TIVO to compare. But the odd glitch in sage here or there that requires a reboot of the HD100/200 or even the server does not compare to going through 4 Sci Atl dvrs in 8 months, having lost a couple weeks of recordings each time. Never lost any recordings with sage and might have missed two total recordings since we started using it that were due to the fault of sage. My wife is pretty tolerant of what the screen looks like, allowing me to play with sagemc, as long as her shows reliable record and playback. We have several hundred shows of JoJos Circus, Mickeys Clubhouse, Backyardigans, etc at our fingertips in any of three rooms if we need to distract the kids for 30 minutes to make dinner or do laundry or whatever. We have all of our shows and dvd movies ready to go when we are. What is not to like?

I have yet to look into comskip. Years ago I questioned the reliability and the reports that people were losing parts of their shows and I figured setting up a fast forward button that jumps within two pushes of the 10 second skip forward/backward buttons 95% of the time was a small inconvenience and a good point to pause for bathroom breaks or drink refills anyway. I have been meaning to look into the reliability of comskip lately.

Also, the remotes are fine on the two upstairs tvs, just annoying they do not have at least a programmable on/off button for the tv. That inconvenience means two remotes at each of the two upstairs tvs because I am unwilling to purchase additional universal remotes (good ones) just to eliminate the extra remote for power.

For us, sage "just works". I built a solid machine and only update the drivers, java and sage about every 6 months. Very happy here with high waf factor.

[stevech]

Old Fart says: Distracting the kids... what happened to "go outside and play and don't come back 'til dinner time" ? Or was that just a warm-climate thing?

[Beefcake550]

Having a 3 and 5 year old.....

what happened to it is chester the child molester became much more prevalent. The general level of trusting people you don't really know is approaching zero. It's like instead of "trust someoen until they break the trust" - it's now don't trust until it's earned.

-Brian

[pknowles]

Originally Posted by sam99

For us, sage "just works". I built a solid machine and only update the drivers, java and sage about every 6 months. Very happy here with high waf factor.

That is the secret to a high WAF. I can't get my wife to stop using the HTPC to work on it.

[stevech]

Originally Posted by Beefcake550

Having a 3 and 5 year old.....

what happened to it is chester the child molester became much more prevalent. The general level of trusting people you don't really know is approaching zero. It's like instead of "trust someoen until they break the trust" - it's now don't trust until it's earned.

-Brian

You really think it's much more likely now than then? Or is it media-whipped hysteria?

[webwalker]

While I agree with stevech on this subject, please don't threadjack this subject.

We have an excellent everything else forum here:
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14

Back on the WAF: How tolerant is your significant other about maintenance? How do you defend the need to perform maintenance?

M