Question about overall reliability and WAF

[timnelsonic]

After some brief experimentation with SageTV a couple of years ago I decided to use Windows MCE. It has been pretty robust, but every few days or so one of the extenders will lock up and a server reboot is required. It has never missed a recording and playback is flawless (no stutter, etc.).

I'm researching Sage again because I'm intrigued by the flexibility and extensibility. I've starting experimenting on a spare computer and I like what I see, but I'm not quite ready to make the leap. I'm relatively technical and don't mind fiddling around a lot to get things working, but once things are set up reliability is important, especially for my wife. Missed recordings, poor playback, etc. just won't fly in my house.

So, for those that have been using SageTV for a while, I have a very general question: how would you rate the overall stability and reliability of SageTV and extenders? Assume a good system (modern, solid hardware, lots of RAM, etc.)...I don't mind spending money to set things up right. Is Sage rock-solid like a Tivo or does it take a bunch of fiddling to keep it running? Or is it somewhere in-between?

Thanks for your input. I'm a big fan of Sage, but don't want to dump a bunch of money into an experiment if the WAF is going to be low.

[Jesse]

Assume a good system (modern, solid hardware, lots of RAM, etc.)...

This, along with a dedicated server that is not used for playback is key, IMO. I might take a little abuse over this, but in my experience pc clients are more stable than either of the extenders.

My setup has been very reliable. See my sig for Hware details.

Jesse

[BFisher]

I'd say it's quite reliable... not perfect, but quite reliable. WAF is very high here.

I have a headless server (used for recording (6 tuners - 3 OTA HD, 3 SD via STB) and feeding extenders (recorded TV or DVDs, etc)). I use extenders for all my TVs (4 MVPs (SD) and 1 HD Extender). No PCs connected to TVs.

If I had 5 HD Extenders, it may be perfect... however, I still have 4 MVPs (sold out of HD Extenders) so I have some conversion (on the fly) from HD to SD to play through the MVPs. Some shows "chipmunk" on playback (audio transcoding gets messed up and everyone sounds like chipmunks) - requires a jump forward, jump back and it clears up... but it's a minor annoyance. Maybe 1-2 times a month, a HD show won't play on an MVP and I have to compress it (transcode it to SD) for it to work (very easy, and I can do it from my remote... no need to touch the server).

Otherwise, I reboot my server about once a week (just to ensure no issues). I think 2 times in the last 3 months I've had to stop/restart the Sage service on the server between reboots because an MVP couldn't connect or something.

The freedom and flexibility MORE than make up for any minor deficiencies... Once I replace my MVPs with HD Extenders, I'd probably give it an A+.

[ybrew]

I've had two reliability issues.

1) I mixed IDE & SATA drives. Got rid of the sata drive and problem went away
2) Another bad piece of hardware. Don't remember what it was, but it was an old part. Replaced and problem went away.

I've been using sage since July 06. Highly recommend it.

I don't spend a lot of time tweaking. It's working. Reliability is important and my wife and kid would kill me if I broke something due to excessive tweaking.

And to be honest, I don't have time for all that tweaking anymore. I just want something that works. I do (seldom) restart the sage service, and will reboot but not often at all.
My server is headless, with 10 tuners attached. 1 PC client and 4 MVPs.

Love it.

[ChubbyTiger]

Originally Posted by Jesse

This, along with a dedicated server that is not used for playback is key, IMO. I might take a little abuse over this, but in my experience pc clients are more stable than either of the extenders.

My setup has been very reliable. See my sig for Hware details.

Jesse

I can't speak about the extenders (yet), but I agree about the server. My standalone client locks every so often while playing. Bad for me, bad for WAF.

[jlmdxtv]

No stutter. No missed recordings. No lockups. And, that's using rather dated systems and a good UPS. My server is running on a 2.2GHz Pentium 4 with ATA drives. I have 6 tuners, a variety of clients, including the new HD Extender. I record off of cable to QAM and SD. All have worked fine for years.

The server doesn't run commercial skipping/detection plugins, RAID, sleep modes, or anything exotic or taxing.

Nice setup all around.

john

[bastafidli]

I am wondering for a while, what does WAF stands for?

[dealsdyker]

Originally Posted by Jesse

This, along with a dedicated server that is not used for playback is key, IMO. I might take a little abuse over this, but in my experience pc clients are more stable than either of the extenders.
Jesse

My WAF is quite low to non-existent. I use a dedicated computer for both recording AND playback (same machine). I'll probably take some abuse for this but I agree with you that playback is where the issues and frustration points are as my rig (see sig line) needs a weekly reboot due to display issues, freeze-ups, etc. Yet the service running will continue to record OK (even tho the screen is frozen) so I certainly can agree with people who aren't missing recordings. But if you walk up and find the playback display all garbled you'll wonder... it is currently recording survivor? Biggest loser? Can I reboot or will it cut out a critical part of the show?

I got to the point where I decided not to throw more $$ at Sage to pay for clients (plus the machine to run the client... I didn't realize I'd need two machines to have a stable setup) or extenders. Where I once was going to use Sage as the central point of my entertainment system, because of the instability of running a single dedicated machine (like a Tivo) at a single location, I've banished my Sage rig to a small 32" HD tube in the basement.

[PGPfan]

Originally Posted by bastafidli

I am wondering for a while, what does WAF stands for?

Wife Acceptance Factor

-PGPfan

[BFisher]

Originally Posted by bastafidli

I am wondering for a while, what does WAF stands for?

Wife Acceptance Factor... how happy your spouse is with your project

[megamojo]

Originally Posted by bastafidli

I am wondering for a while, what does WAF stands for?

Wife Appreciation Factor.

[blade]

Originally Posted by PGPfan

Wife Acceptance Factor

Very important factor for those who can't seem to tell their wife to either stop complaining or go back to watching live TV.

[osburnfamily]

Originally Posted by blade

Very important factor for those who can't seem to tell their wife to either stop complaining or go back to watching live TV.

Dude, that's freakin' funny! It even made my wife laugh!!

(what's even funnier is how true it is!)

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by dealsdyker

My WAF is quite low to non-existent. I use a dedicated computer for both recording AND playback (same machine). I'll probably take some abuse for this but I agree with you that playback is where the issues and frustration points are as my rig (see sig line) needs a weekly reboot due to display issues, freeze-ups, etc. Yet the service running will continue to record OK (even tho the screen is frozen) so I certainly can agree with people who aren't missing recordings. But if you walk up and find the playback display all garbled you'll wonder... it is currently recording survivor? Biggest loser? Can I reboot or will it cut out a critical part of the show?

I got to the point where I decided not to throw more $$ at Sage to pay for clients (plus the machine to run the client... I didn't realize I'd need two machines to have a stable setup) or extenders. Where I once was going to use Sage as the central point of my entertainment system, because of the instability of running a single dedicated machine (like a Tivo) at a single location, I've banished my Sage rig to a small 32" HD tube in the basement.

The reason to use a dedicated server is less about Sage than it is about windows. Windows generally is not reliable when you have one machine trying to do lots of applications. Even in corporate systems, we tend to dedicate servers to specific functions...

I have found that with a decently powered server that the extenders work very well. I have yet to have a problem with the HD100. The MVP's response is a little sluggish, but it's quite reliable, which is more important.

My remaining PC client works pretty well, but it took a LOT of work droking around with windows to get high quality playback and keep the Sage UI always on the screen. WAF plummets if the windows desktop shows up. She knows though to just hit the reset button and trigger a reboot autologin sequence. That works because it's just a client. You could never do that withe the server.

BTW, I do not think you will find another PVR software based system (running on windows) that is more reliable. The issues here are common to all windows platforms.

[dealsdyker]

Originally Posted by mikesm

The issues here are common to all windows platforms.

Yep, totally agree. Wonder if Linux handles Sage better as a closed box non client/server solution.

[takeshi]

Originally Posted by timnelsonic

So, for those that have been using SageTV for a while, I have a very general question: how would you rate the overall stability and reliability of SageTV and extenders? Assume a good system (modern, solid hardware, lots of RAM, etc.)...I don't mind spending money to set things up right. Is Sage rock-solid like a Tivo or does it take a bunch of fiddling to keep it running? Or is it somewhere in-between?

I've used Sage for years (since 1.4 in 2004) and it has always been rock solid for me. I'm currently recording and playing back (SD and HD) on a P4 2.4 system. No plug ins and no extenders. I don't know if that makes any difference -- I just don't have any need for them.

[jominor]

Originally Posted by timnelsonic

After some brief experimentation with SageTV a couple of years ago I decided to use Windows MCE. It has been pretty robust, but every few days or so one of the extenders will lock up and a server reboot is required. It has never missed a recording and playback is flawless (no stutter, etc.).

I'm researching Sage again because I'm intrigued by the flexibility and extensibility. I've starting experimenting on a spare computer and I like what I see, but I'm not quite ready to make the leap. I'm relatively technical and don't mind fiddling around a lot to get things working, but once things are set up reliability is important, especially for my wife. Missed recordings, poor playback, etc. just won't fly in my house.

So, for those that have been using SageTV for a while, I have a very general question: how would you rate the overall stability and reliability of SageTV and extenders? Assume a good system (modern, solid hardware, lots of RAM, etc.)...I don't mind spending money to set things up right. Is Sage rock-solid like a Tivo or does it take a bunch of fiddling to keep it running? Or is it somewhere in-between?

Thanks for your input. I'm a big fan of Sage, but don't want to dump a bunch of money into an experiment if the WAF is going to be low.

I ran my first 1.5 years with client and server on the same box with very few problems. The biggest was that oh, once a week, fast forwarding with hang the server. So I had downtime of about 5minutes for a week.

When I moved to a true client/server, that problem went away. I'm still using machine purchased back in '03, running Sage 5 with full IR on and commericial skipping.

WAF is through the roof. In fact, since I purchased a Quad core for work related tasks and was impressed, I'm getting another quadcore so I can compress and commericial skip at the same time.

I've got the full support of the wife.

My daughter, who was born in 03, the about same time I first started using Sage, is now 4 and basically thinks that all TV is on demand and barely knows what a commerical is. When you started to recognized them, she thought the show was broken and would yell "Fix it."

I cannot image TV without it. I still use Basic expand cable because I can mine so much from TV. I have 2.2 terabytes of TV storage and the system works great!

[jominor]

Originally Posted by jlmdxtv

No stutter. No missed recordings. No lockups. And, that's using rather dated systems and a good UPS. My server is running on a 2.2GHz Pentium 4 with ATA drives. I have 6 tuners, a variety of clients, including the new HD Extender. I record off of cable to QAM and SD. All have worked fine for years.

The server doesn't run commercial skipping/detection plugins, RAID, sleep modes, or anything exotic or taxing.

Nice setup all around.

john

My server is a P4 with 3 tuners, about 8 drives(7 usb enclosed) with commericial skipping, Sage 5.

[Djc208]

Admittedly I have a very simple setup, but it's been extremly trouble free for me, and that's using the same machine for everything. It's dedicated to Sage which I think is the most important part so there's not a lot of extra stuff running.

The only time I usually have to reboot is after installing patches and updates. The only problems I have are a very rare video hang-up, which is related to the video card on my machine, and getting my universal remote to work well with Sage, but that's a remote issue, not a Sage problem.

[mrwolf]

I have a P4-3.0GHz, 2GB RAM, and have the OS installed on one SATA drive with a Promise controller with three 500gb SATA drives in a RAID5 (1TB usable). Currently using three DirecTV SD STBs with Patterson serial cables and two USB HD OTA tuners. I used BeyondTV for a couple years, maybe three, and it worked well until I went beyond a basic setup. As soon as I did all the other stuff with the multiple tuners and such, WAF went straight to hell in a handbasket.

A couple months ago I switched to SageMC and have't looked back. I admit that things were rocky the first couple weeks with the learning curve and PQ was not that great. For me, I definitely could not get it all worked out during the trial (I work double what most people do so time was a factor), but during the trial period I seen all I needed to see and knew it was the way to go. The best part is that I kept my Firefly remotes and I'm using them with EventGhost to control it all. My livingroom system is down to the TV, receiver, and PC client--even threw out the traditional DVD player. As soon as I had a Saturday available, I put 2-3 hours into each client PC and I couldn't even tell you how happy I am right now.

DirecTV is coming Monday to upgrade me to HD in anticipation of the HD-PVR coming out (hopefully soon, come on Hauppage!). Some of my DVDs I've copied to the hard drive. All my daughter's DVDs I'm ripping down to 700mb avi files using FairUse.

To put it simply, the system rocks and I'm a happy guy with good WAF. HINT: one of hte keys for this was to program a button on the remote to reboot the PC using EventGhost, which takes care of most problems the wife encounters when I'm not around--60 seconds to reboot and it's back up.