Why WHS?

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by wado1971

You guys almost have me sold. One question: Will WHS run DirMon2/Comskip ok?

I run DIrmon 2 and Comskip or Showanalyzer without a problem.

Gerry

[rlvogel322]

Originally Posted by gplasky

I run DIrmon 2 and Comskip or Showanalyzer without a problem.

Gerry

Ditto!

[heffe2001]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

Does it have win2k3 drivers available? If so, a 775 dual or quad core would make a great WHS/Sage server.

Looks like it does indeed have 2003 drivers. Will definitely have one of these on the way soon as the 'ole tax refund comes in . Probably put a Q6600 on there, I'd love to stick 4g in it, but 3 of my tuners are PCI PVR-500's, and they don't support 4g on the same machine... Think that would far surpass the x2 4600 AMD I'm using now...

[pawn]

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but Microsoft limits non-server operating systems to 5 simultaneous network connections from other computers. They do this basically to stop small businesses from using a workstation copy of Windows for a simple fileserver (and force them to pay for the server version).

I've got 2 clients and 2 extenders. Throw in a stale (or current) shared folder connection and maybe a vnc session, and I have had the odd "Could not connect to network folder" when accessing a file on my sage server machine (i.e., using explorer) and I've always had a nagging feeling once in a while, otherwise unexplained UI hangs on a client machine were caused by the network connection cap.

I will be rebuilding my server machine eventually and will be using a server version of windows (whichever version is the most stable when I pull the trigger).

[crarbo1]

S_M_E,
I was wondering if you could give a brief tutorial, so to speak, of how to migrate from an existing SageTV server (on XP MCE2005) to WHS. I think you have a post about the cluster size and I will refer to that, but what I was looking for is how to install, transfer old settings and get it running smoothly.

An additional question I have is about what happens when WHS updates. I currently have it update automatically. If it updates and then reboots, I know that I will loose the part of a recording during the reboot time, but would Sage automatically start the recording from where it left off? So I don't loose the entire recording?

Also, if I have a valid SageTV server license, how would I setup SageTV server on my WHS and then transfer that license to my WHS?

Thanks for any replies,
Chuck

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by heffe2001

Looks like it does indeed have 2003 drivers. Will definitely have one of these on the way soon as the 'ole tax refund comes in . Probably put a Q6600 on there, I'd love to stick 4g in it, but 3 of my tuners are PCI PVR-500's, and they don't support 4g on the same machine... Think that would far surpass the x2 4600 AMD I'm using now...

That will make an awesome server. I use 3G RAM in my WHS, 4G can be less stable with large processes and WHS only reports it as 3G anyway.

Originally Posted by crarbo1

S_M_E,
I was wondering if you could give a brief tutorial, so to speak, of how to migrate from an existing SageTV server (on XP MCE2005) to WHS. I think you have a post about the cluster size and I will refer to that, but what I was looking for is how to install, transfer old settings and get it running smoothly.

The way I've always done it is to copy the C:\Program Files\SageTV folder from the old box to the new box (after you install the requirements) and then run the installer on the new box. In the case of WHS; you copy the whs-sage-installer.msi file to the \\WHS\Software\Add-ins share and install the add-in with the WHS console. After Sage is installed, you can configure it with a client or from the WHS desktop. It's always been that simple for me.

An additional question I have is about what happens when WHS updates. I currently have it update automatically. If it updates and then reboots, I know that I will loose the part of a recording during the reboot time, but would Sage automatically start the recording from where it left off? So I don't loose the entire recording?

I don't know, I set MS Update to download updates and prompt for install. The Sage service will restart but I'm not sure if the recording would resume.

Also, if I have a valid SageTV server license, how would I setup SageTV server on my WHS and then transfer that license to my WHS?

Yes, the windows license works on any version of windows. Shut down the old server and use the license on the new one.

[crarbo1]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

The way I've always done it is to copy the C:\Program Files\SageTV folder from the old box to the new box (after you install the requirements) and then run the installer on the new box. In the case of WHS; you copy the whs-sage-installer.msi file to the \\WHS\Software\Add-ins share and install the add-in with the WHS console. After Sage is installed, you can configure it with a client or from the WHS desktop. It's always been that simple for me.

Thanks for the reply.
When you mention "after you install the requirements", what do you mean?

A question about the 64k cluster size. I just got a new drive to install in the pool. Since I already have 3 other drives (C and D, drive and two 1 TB data drive), how would I install the new drive to have 64k clusters? The two data drives are almost full and I'm not sure if any data got onto the system drive. I think I would first connect it but don't add it to the pool. Go to drive managment and format it with 64k clusters, then add it to the pool. Once it is done then I can remove the other two data drives individually and do the same. Is that correct?

Thanks,
Chuck

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by crarbo1

Thanks for the reply.
When you mention "after you install the requirements", what do you mean?

Requirements like java, decoders, etc...

A question about the 64k cluster size. I just got a new drive to install in the pool. Since I already have 3 other drives (C and D, drive and two 1 TB data drive), how would I install the new drive to have 64k clusters? The two data drives are almost full and I'm not sure if any data got onto the system drive. I think I would first connect it but don't add it to the pool. Go to drive managment and format it with 64k clusters, then add it to the pool. Once it is done then I can remove the other two data drives individually and do the same. Is that correct?

No, that's wrong, follow the tutorial, you disable duplication on all shares first add it to the pool before changing it to 64K clusters.

If your existing drives are already too full, move some of the data off temporarily. If you install the disk management add-in that I talk about in the tutorial, you'll should be able to tell how full the other drives are.

[crarbo1]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

Requirements like java, decoders, etc...

If I don't plan using my WHS for playback, would in need those things?

Originally Posted by S_M_E

No, that's wrong, follow the tutorial, you disable duplication on all shares first add it to the pool before changing it to 64K clusters.

If your existing drives are already too full, move some of the data off temporarily. If you install the disk management add-in that I talk about in the tutorial, you'll should be able to tell how full the other drives are.

Ok I think I understand now. Turn off all duplication, make certain there is enough free space on remaining drives that no data will get moved to new drive, add drive to pool, go into disk managment and format new drive to 64k clusters, remove other data drive from pool, allow time for it to move all data to new drive just installed, then repeat the format process. Do this until all data drive have been converted. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I did read your tutorial but as you can tell, I was still a little confused.

Thanks,
Chuck

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by crarbo1

If I don't plan using my WHS for playback, would in need those things?

If you want to use the gui for configuration and/or testing, yes. I'd install it...

Ok I think I understand now. Turn off all duplication, make certain there is enough free space on remaining drives that no data will get moved to new drive, add drive to pool, go into disk managment and format new drive to 64k clusters, remove other data drive from pool, allow time for it to move all data to new drive just installed, then repeat the format process. Do this until all data drive have been converted. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I did read your tutorial but as you can tell, I was still a little confused.

Yes, that's basically it...

[crarbo1]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

If you want to use the gui for configuration and/or testing, yes. I'd install it...

Few more questions about this part of things.

Would I have to set up anything on the SageTV on the WHS or could I just configure my clients and/or extenders? I guess what I'm asking is there any setup necessary on the Server software on WHS or can all of it be done on a client PC and extenders?

Also, if I copy my current SageTV directory in the C:\Program Files directory to the C:\Program Files directory on the WHS, then install the SageTV add in via the WHS console, wouldn't my settings (Configuration, recordings, series, etc.) be retained?

Thanks,
Chuck

[Slipshod]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

4G can be less stable with large processes and WHS only reports it as 3G anyway.

Not sure what you've heard about 4gb issues with large processes in WHS, but I've never had an issue nor heard of one.

While there is no reason to go above 3GB for normal WHS usage (or 2GB for that matter) WHS can see just shy of 4GB. If you're capped at 3GB it's your hardware configuration, not WHS; or you're talking about per-process RAM limits. On my server board I had just shy of 4GB available (It was like 4GB according to Hard disk vendors!) with WHS because my onboard video card was only 32MB and my server board had full addressing lines for memory (some consumer ones don't). When I added the caching RAID controller it dropped down to 3.5GB usable.

[S_M_E]

I haven't found anything that couldn't be done from my client but I often use the server to configure things anyway. I don't use the placeshifter or extenders so I don't know about those.

The settings, favorites, etc have always been retained for me, it's always been like doing an upgrade. Sage never even noticed that I changed the OS other than it will ask for the licence the first time.

[DOS64K]

Originally Posted by wado1971

You guys almost have me sold. One question: Will WHS run DirMon2/Comskip ok?

Yup, that's what I'm running.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by Slipshod

Not sure what you've heard about 4gb issues with large processes in WHS, but I've never had an issue nor heard of one.

The only issue I've personally had with 4G is reporting 3g but I've read that if a process gets over 2G it'll BSOD. I've never had one get that big but I'd rather use 3G and be safe. Try a yahoo search for "4G RAM 32bit". You might find what I read.

I haven't found the one that talked about large processes lately but:
http://www.dansdata.com/askdan00015.htm
and
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=3044&p=2

While there is no reason to go above 3GB for normal WHS usage (or 2GB for that matter) WHS can see just shy of 4GB. If you're capped at 3GB it's your hardware configuration, not WHS; or you're talking about per-process RAM limits. On my server board I had just shy of 4GB available (It was like 4GB according to Hard disk vendors!) with WHS because my onboard video card was only 32MB and my server board had full addressing lines for memory (some consumer ones don't). When I added the caching RAID controller it dropped down to 3.5GB usable.

Right click the "My Computer" icon on your desktop and select Properties then see how much RAM it reports. If it can't even report the right amount of RAM, I have no confidence that it won't have issues using it. Better safe than sorry, imo.

[IVB]

Is there any reason to use WHS if you:
1) have a HW RAID card, hence won't use the pooled drive thing
2) Don't have other PCs that you need to have backed up.
3) Probably won't have more than 5 simultaneous connections?

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by IVB

Is there any reason to use WHS if you:
1) have a HW RAID card, hence won't use the pooled drive thing
2) Don't have other PCs that you need to have backed up.
3) Probably won't have more than 5 simultaneous connections?

1) IMHO, WHS storage is better and more flexible than traditional HW RAID for home users. I have RAID adapters, I prefer the pool. The "pooled drive thing" is desired. You can still use the ports on the RAID adapter if you wanted to add more drives but I wouldn't use the RAID features. Maybe this will help:
http://blogs.technet.com/homeserver/...echnology.aspx

2) Most people that have a WHS box do have a PC (or more than one) for e-mail, web surfing, etc. too. It's not meant to be or replace a desktop OS, it's meant to be a headless server. If you're a Mac fan the HP prebuilt WHS machines will even backup a Mac. If you're into linux...well...good luck.

3) WHS is based on a server OS which means it was built to be a server, which SageTV also is. I'd rather have a server OS, than a desktop OS, for my server. Remember, it's Windows Home Server not Windows Enterprise Server.

There's also remote access and sharing via the WHS webserver, if so desired, and the ability to run more than just Sage if you want.

[IVB]

but what if your mobo fails and you can't get another identical one? In that case, a HW array is transferrable to a new mobo type, any idea if WHS is?

FWIW, I do have 3 other machines (2 laptops and a desktop), but the RAID arrays store all the data, these are basically client-only boxes.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by IVB

but what if your mobo fails and you can't get another identical one? In that case, a HW array is transferrable to a new mobo type, any idea if WHS is?

You can take the drives out a "dead" WHS box and read/write/recover the data on any machine that can read NTFS, you can't always do that with HW RAID and you can't always rebuild an array if the controller dies even if you replace it with an identical one.

FWIW, I do have 3 other machines (2 laptops and a desktop), but the RAID arrays store all the data, these are basically client-only boxes.

If they run a supported OS you could still use WHS to back them up and restore the OS or individual files if need be. I only back up my C drives on my workstations and I've used WHS to restore the OS to a prior date after something got corrupted on one of them. Sure, I could have done it other ways but WHS automates the backup process and made restoring easy. I didn't have to install drivers and apps, it just ran like it did the day it was backed up. I have another PC that I've never had to restore but it's nice to know that I could if I had to, I know it's backed up, just in case.

[crarbo1]

S_M_E,
I'm sure you just overlooked my last questions. Could you give your opinion on these?

Originally Posted by crarbo1

Few more questions about this part of things.

Would I have to set up anything on the SageTV on the WHS or could I just configure my clients and/or extenders? I guess what I'm asking is there any setup necessary on the Server software on WHS or can all of it be done on a client PC and extenders?

Also, if I copy my current SageTV directory in the C:\Program Files directory to the C:\Program Files directory on the WHS, then install the SageTV add in via the WHS console, wouldn't my settings (Configuration, recordings, series, etc.) be retained?

Thanks,
Chuck

Thanks,
Chuck