2250 Succesfully setup, EPG Problem.

[voicu_n]

Hello all,
It is my first post here i just got into using a tuner and SageTV, looks like a very attractive solution for my home video entertaintement.
I have a new HTPC running Windows Vista Ultimate 64 bit, and as tuner an HVR-2250. As Sources for the tuner i use 2 X digital cable, Analog cable and S-video from cable box.
After a lot of problems I was able to sucesfully set up my tuner to work with all this sources using the latest 6.5.3 SageTv beta... (Special thanks to SHS http://www.shspvr.com/smf/index.php?topic=11825.0 and MattHelm http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...98&postcount=4 )

But now i ran into EPG problems ....
After i scanned all my sources, i got a n EPG that sometimes had channels that were not correct....

Also, the HD digital channels i found have displayed "no data" in EPG...
Then what i did , i removed all the sources... reinstalled windows and new Saget Tv 6.5.3 (btw i noticed today that 6.5.4 is out and has some improvements for my 2250 , how can i do a proper upgrade???)... I scanned only one source (digital tuner) on one of the tuner and i chosed (one by one) all three lineups that are close to what i have :
Comcast chicago Northwest 2,3 Cable ready; Comcast Comcast chicago Northwest 2,3 and Comcast chicago Northwest 2,3 digital.....

After my digital scan i got 73 digital channels out of 133 scanned...

Now the EPG works strange: some channels are ok name and program info, some have just the name of channel displayed correctly but "no data" in programs and some have names like "DTV 104.2, DTV 90.8..."

So here is an ideea of how my EPG looks now :

channel no: channel name: program info:

2-1 CBS2 Ch No data
5-1 NBC5-DT some data
5-2 NBC5-WX good data
5-3 NBC5-US good -data
7-1 WLS-HD no data
7-2 WLS-SD2 no data
.
.
.
26-8 FTB no data
32-1 WFLD DT no data
and then no more channel info or data all the following channels looks like this:

37-1 DTV37.1 no data
.
.
.
103-12 DTV103.23 no data
104-2 DTV104.2 no data

thats all....

Now as you can see only two channels have actually information on programs and just several channels have a proper name assigned (like WLS, WFLD....)

What am i doing wrong, how can i get a good working epg on my HD and SD channels....????

If i use the s-video , or analog tuner , i get a nice and corect EPG , but no QAM included.....
BUT how do i associate each HD QAM or SD QAM channel to it's corespondent channel from cable box or analog tuner ?????

I did search this forum a lot and read the remapping informations in the manual , but is very unclear to me....Can someone take the time and help me here...

Thank you so much...

[mrthking]

I am essentially having the same problem with the Hauppauge 2250. If I tell sage it is a analog device it will scan and pick up all the analog channels 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, etc.... If I tell sage it is a digital tuner it will scan an pick up all the digital stations 3.1, 3.2, 5.1, 5.2, 5.3, etc.... but then I can go in and manually add the analog stations which is a little time consuming but not that big of a deal. However when I go to the epg I only get data for the analog channels.

Channels 3.1 is the HD version of 3. Is there anyway to tell sage to use channel 3's program data for channel 3.1? I will not have the channel 3 active on that tuner only 3.1. I have played with the channel remap but I can't seem to get the right combination. I Also have the HD Homerun and an ATI analog tuner which I have not set up yet.

Thanks for your help.

[Dranzaz]

I am also having issues with the EPG logical channels and the DTV physical channels with my Hauppauge 2250.

If I allow SageTV to scan the channels, it will properly identify the physical DTV channels (68.2, 68.3, etc.). However, the EPG does not translate the physical channels to their logical components. I had to spend the better part of an hour viewing each physical channel via SageTV while having a DTV settop and TV beside it so that I could properly remap the SageTV physical channels to their logical channel and station.

For example: 68.8 was remapped to SpeedHD (754) and 100.3 was remapped to WIVB-HD (704).

Once this was completed the program guide and sceduled recordings all readjusted themselves properly and all was working during my 1 hour test last night. I then decided to simulate a power outage, and whoops, upon reboot, the remapping I spent so much time on was lost. The EPG still showes the logical channels active with no physical channel tagging. Attempt to view the channels via "LiveTV" and al ya get is "No Signal". I had to rescan the channels and then remap once again. Not ideal.

Looking to see if anyone else has found a way around this remapping issue?

Setting the 2250 up as dual analog tuners everything matches up and operates just fine, this is only an issue with the digital channel physical mapping to the logical channel mapping.

Current setup:

- SageTV 6.4.8 with Beta DShowCapture.dll and TSSplitter.ax for 2250 compatability
- Intel P4 3.2G
- 2G Memory
- Windows Vista Premium x32
- 3x EIDE 80GB drives, 1x SATAII 80GB (C:\), 1x SATAII 500GB
- Hauppauge WinTV PVR 500 MCE dual analog
- Hauppauge WinTV HVR 2250 dual digital/analog
- WinFast PVR 2000 single analog
- Aside from 2 beta files for SageTV, there are no beta drivers in use, all are the latest "release" drivers from the respective manufacturer.

Note: During 1 test last night I had the PVR2000 and PVR 500 recording 3 analog showes while recording 1 analog and 1 DTV show on the HVR2250. CPU stayed steady below 10%, all 5 showes were recorded to the same SATAII drive (500GB) without issue. I am hoping to have the HVR run in dual digital mode only and the other 3 analog tuners back it up when there is overflow.

If a solution for the Channel mapping can be found I would concider upgrading to a motherboard that has at least 2 PCIe x1 slots and replace and another HVR2250, HD is just so much better. Yes its overkill but with a wife, myself, and 2 kids all with different tastes for showes, this has been a good colution so far. After the showes are recorded I push them to a RAS server for me and the kids to stream from while the HD-DVR from the cable company is controlled by the wife (she's tech challenged).

[Dean_H]

Dranzaz,

You said you:

"For example: 68.8 was remapped to SpeedHD (754) and 100.3 was remapped to WIVB-HD (704)."

This is the problem I have right now. How did you do this?

[Dranzaz]

Originally Posted by Dean_H

Dranzaz,

You said you:

"For example: 68.8 was remapped to SpeedHD (754) and 100.3 was remapped to WIVB-HD (704)."

This is the problem I have right now. How did you do this?

This is lengthy, so please bear with it.

Here is what I have done that seems to work:

Starting with NO (I say again, NO) digital tuners configured:
=============================================
1 - Add a digital tuner via the "Add new source" link.
2 - Follow the onscreen instructions and allow SageTV to scan the channels, this can take awhile (20-30 minutes for my system.)
3 - At this point I ensured that all the "new" channels were enabled for the program guide.
4 - Finish out, leaving the other tuner alone for now.
5 - View each of the new channels in full screen mode and "stare and compare" against the viewing of an HD Setup Box hooked up to a TV. make notes as to the configuration:
Example: Logical 66-0-1 is Physical DTV66.2 views the same as Zito Media channel 403 which is Music Choice "Classic Country"
6 - After making notes on all the avalable channels as best you can, go back into the chennel setup for the Digital EPG.
7 - You should see non-enabled channels that match closely your notes for the Cable Providers on-screen programing guide.
8 - "View" the channel you wish to change so that it is displayed in the upper right hand corner of the screen.
9 - Then "Remap" the "scanned" digital channel DTV66.2 (66-0-1) to a "Different Station" via the popped up options.
10 - Then sort the resulting list by channel number. This should make it easier to find 403 than "MCCLCT".
11 - I then amended my notes to include the new "Station ID" for the channel:
Example: Logical 66-0-1 is Physical DTV66.2 views the same as Zito Media channel 403 which is Music Choice "Classic Country" (403)
12 - Now "Remap" the same channel again, but this time select the "Remap to Default Logical Channel" option.
13 - In the "View" area, you should now see the video still playing but the new channel lineup should be reflected.
14 - Scroll to the newly remapped channel (403) and ensure it is enabled (Green Dot to the left of the channel).
15 - Exit the channel setup.
16 - Access the programming guide via the main menu and wait for it to update the channel information.
17 - Try tuning to the channel normally and ensure its good to go.
18 - If everything is OK with this test channel, go back to the channel setup and rinse and repeat steps 7-14 above for each of the digital channels you found.
19 - After the Channel setup is complete, add your other tuner as a new source, ensuring you select the same "Digital" EPG reference. DO NOT RESCAN the channels, it was no needed in my testing this weekend.
20 - After the new source is added, go back to the "Program Guide" via the Main Menu and start recording a Digital channel and then try and view another. You should be OK at this point.
21 - After verifying that both tuners are working, stop all test recordings, place SageTV in "Standby" mode and walk away for 15 minutes. This will allow SageTV fully update its EPG download and save any "ghost" information accordingly.
22 - After any major change, I like to right-click on the SageTV Icon on the System Tray and select "Exit SageTV". Once exited, I like to reboot the system. This type of "clean" unloading of the program and system shutdown helps to prevent data from being lost (in my experience).
23 - After the system reboots, access the program guide and make sure everything displays and works just fine.
24 - Backup your SageTV directory and ZIP it.

Times for me:
================================
1 - Scanning of the channels 20-30 minutes
2 - Annotation of the Channels in notepad, 2-3 hours
3 - Remapping 1-2 hours
4 - Testing 30-60 minutes

Basically this took the better part of a day to get a process worked out, but all appears to be working just fine for me. Unfortunately the EPG SageTV is getting is not right (not SageTV's fault). For example, I do have the History Channel on 831 via the local Settop Box. I have DTV69.1 physically annotated as the history channel. But there is no reference of the History channel in the EPG that downlonds, and 831 is reflected as "TBS-HD". This is an issue for the local cable company (Zito Media) to correct, not SageTV. They are not updating the remote guides properly when they make changes. This is why the annotation process in notepad is key, if the downloaded EPG changes or the channel lineup is changed, it will be easier to verify and modify the information as needed, especially since it is ussually 1 or 2 channels that change and not the entire lineup.

Note: I am at work and did most of this from memory. I will try later this week to include some screenshots if I get the time.

[Dean_H]

Dranzaz,

I struggled with the EPG (and some specific help from Opus) and did exactly what you suggested (before I saw your posting). It took me the better part of an afternoon, but I too got things working. Thank you for you help.

One thing I noticed is that the QAM channels found from the 2250 had a few "extra" channels that I don't get from my local cable company; particularly some local access channels....interesting.

One additional question: I can record just fine, but the picture quality looks terrible. Even on 1080i channels the picture quality from the 2250 looks like it's 480i. If I tune using my HD-PVR, the picture is awsome. My guess is that Sage is using a demux filter that only allows 480i (is that possible?). How can I get the resolution to look better?

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by Dean_H

One additional question: I can record just fine, but the picture quality looks terrible. Even on 1080i channels the picture quality from the 2250 looks like it's 480i. If I tune using my HD-PVR, the picture is awsome. My guess is that Sage is using a demux filter that only allows 480i (is that possible?). How can I get the resolution to look better?

If these are digital channels, are you sure you are recording the HD vesion of the channel? On a digital tuner, SageTV simply saves the digital stream, so it won't be changing a 1080i broadast to 480i. On my cable system, there are SD and HD versions of the same local channels. If that is what you are seeing, then make sure you've enabled the HD streams, not the ones in SD.

- Andy

[Dean_H]

The channels on the 2250 are only tuning the digital channels (I never had the analog channels in the channel listing).

When I use graphedit, I see that the demux filter being used is only 480i.....Is there something I can check either in Sage or graphedit?

[Opus4]

I was referring to digital channels, not analog. Digital does not have to mean HD. As I said, double check the channels because it looks like you are tuning the SD versions.

- Andy

[Dranzaz]

Originally Posted by Opus4

I was referring to digital channels, not analog. Digital does not have to mean HD. As I said, double check the channels because it looks like you are tuning the SD versions.

- Andy

I always like to double check things. Especially since I work for my cable company. The problem you might be seeing is that they may not have a digital feed from the station yet. As a result they simply mux the SD channel into the HD feeds. If this is the case, you are getting an HD signal with SD content. There are growing pains right now. Franchise fees need renegotiated, cable plants upgraded, just a boat load of items that the average customer doesn't see.

Originally Posted by Dean_H

One additional question: I can record just fine, but the picture quality looks terrible. Even on 1080i channels the picture quality from the 2250 looks like it's 480i. If I tune using my HD-PVR, the picture is awsome. My guess is that Sage is using a demux filter that only allows 480i (is that possible?). How can I get the resolution to look better?

Doublecheck your "recording quality" setting under setup. Your HD-PVR may be setup to record at a lower data rate stream and the 2250 at a higher rate. If I change my 2250 to record at "standard DVD" rate of 3.2GB/hour the video quality is good, still better than SD, but smooth in playback mode. If I change to the "Max MPEG" of 5.9GB/hour, recorded quality is awesome if the file is viewed via WinDVD, or Windows Media Player. If played through SageTV playback, the video looks decent but stutters and freezes. My Processor just cann't handle the playback via Java. Just a thought.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by Dranzaz

Doublecheck your "recording quality" setting under setup. Your HD-PVR may be setup to record at a lower data rate stream and the 2250 at a higher rate. If I change my 2250 to record at "standard DVD" rate of 3.2GB/hour the video quality is good, still better than SD, but smooth in playback mode. If I change to the "Max MPEG" of 5.9GB/hour, recorded quality is awesome

Just so you know: the recording quality choices do nothing for a digital tuner, so they don't affect the QAM side of that card. They only affect analog tuner recordings, where the tuner actually does the work of encoding the signal instead of simply saving what it receives.

- Andy

[psklenar]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Just so you know: the recording quality choices do nothing for a digital tuner, so they don't affect the QAM side of that card. They only affect analog tuner recordings, where the tuner actually does the work of encoding the signal instead of simply saving what it receives.

So does that mean the "Recording Quality" settings don't have any impact on HDHomeRun tuners either since they are "Digital"? What about the HD-PVR? Since it does it's own H.264 encoding ... does it also ignore these SageTV settings?

Thanks,
pat----

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by psklenar

So does that mean the "Recording Quality" settings don't have any impact on HDHomeRun tuners either since they are "Digital"? What about the HD-PVR? Since it does it's own H.264 encoding ... does it also ignore these SageTV settings?

The HDHR is a digital tuner: it saves cable QAM and over the air ATSC streams w/o any encoding.

The HD-PVR is an analog tuner: it encodes the analog signal it receives to a digital recording.

- Andy

[Dean_H]

OK, I'm messing with my Sage setup now. Right now, if I watch a show that was recorded on the 2250 through Total Media Extreme, it shows that it's formatted 4:3. Graphedit shows a demux that is only 480i.....SD!

The show, per Sage, was recorded on an HD channel, and even has the HD logo in the EPG.

What has gone wrong? If I watch that same channel through the HD-PVR, it's 16:9......

Also, right now I cannot watch anything in TME on the 2250 (live that is).

HELP!!

[gplasky]

How did you map the channels in Sage? If you used one lineup for both tuners taht may be your issue.

Gerry

[Dean_H]

When I installed the 2250 I told sage it's only a digital tuner (no analog channels). I let sage (and the 2250) search for channels and it found a bunch (all with the QAM type of channel numbers).

I looked at each channel, figured out which cable channel that was an remapped the channel to the EPG channel number. So say for NBC, the 2250 showed it as something like 79.161 and I remapped it to 404 (which is the HD NBC channel).

Edit:

When I was all done with the one tuner, I told sage (on the second tuner) to use the same lineup as the first tuner.....

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by Dean_H

When I installed the 2250 I told sage it's only a digital tuner (no analog channels). I let sage (and the 2250) search for channels and it found a bunch (all with the QAM type of channel numbers).

I looked at each channel, figured out which cable channel that was an remapped the channel to the EPG channel number. So say for NBC, the 2250 showed it as something like 79.161 and I remapped it to 404 (which is the HD NBC channel).

Edit:

When I was all done with the one tuner, I told sage (on the second tuner) to use the same lineup as the first tuner.....

But you also have an HD-PVR. What lineup did you use with that? The same one?

Gerry

[Dean_H]

No, HD-PVR is on it's own lineup (not a custom lineup, just one that lists all cable channels and I've gone through and enabled only the channels I get/pay for)

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by Dean_H

No, HD-PVR is on it's own lineup (not a custom lineup, just one that lists all cable channels and I've gone through and enabled only the channels I get/pay for)

Just to make sure I understand, when you setup the tuner you entered your zip code and got a list of providers. For the HD-PVR you picked one cable provider. And for the 2250 you either picked a different cable provider or entered a nearby zipcode that had the same programming as yours. Correct?

Gerry

[Dean_H]

No.

When I installed the HD-PVR I picked my zip code and the digital cable company. Then got the listing of all channels and enabled only the ones I pay for.

For the 2250 I told Sage to skip this step. Then I got a channel listing for the first 2250 tuner that showed nothing at all (no channels). I told sage to "scan now" and it found about 74 digital QAM channels (all with the strange channel numbers like 79.116). I then remapped those channels to the corresponding ones from the cable company using the REMAP feature in the channel listing for the 2250 tuner.