Help with a New System Setup!

[agdm619]

I have recently downloaded the demo of SageTV and am very impressed with its capabilities. I have a couple of questions. I have 2 HDTV's and 1 standard television all 3 with cable provided (Brighthouse Networks) DVR boxes in my home. There are so many limitations with the DVR's as you already know. I will tell you what I would like to accomplish and maybe someone could help with getting the right equipment.

First, I would love to get rid of all the DVR's in the house. But?
- Do I need to keep one digital box so it can hook into a tuner/capture?
card(s)?
- Or, do I plug the cable right into the tuner/capture card(s)?
- If I do plug the cable directly in the tuner/capture card, will I still get all
the channels that I get with my box?
- For three TV’s, would I need three tuner/capture cards?

Secondly, I want to be able to watch LIVE TV in every room independently. Be able to record LIVE TV shows and watch them on any TV in the house at anytime.

Thirdly, be able to access all of our home videos (95% shot on an Sony HDR-SR1 in the AVCHD Codec. Although it will not play my m2ts files, it says "There was a problem rendering the video portion of the content for playback".)I would like to play our music library (Mostly .MP3's and WMA's) and view our pictures (all jpeg's) that reside on our current pc and watch and listen to them at anytime.

I have a Dell XPS 410 Dual Core 2.4GHz PC with 2 Gig's of memory 500GB HD. (I will need more space in the future for recordings.)

Any help would be great! I think I’m most concerned of how my cable provider comes into play with this setup.

Thanks,
Aaron

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by agdm619

First, I would love to get rid of all the DVR's in the house. But?
- Do I need to keep one digital box so it can hook into a tuner/capture?
card(s)?
- Or, do I plug the cable right into the tuner/capture card(s)?
- If I do plug the cable directly in the tuner/capture card, will I still get all
the channels that I get with my box?
- For three TV’s, would I need three tuner/capture cards?

A tuner card will only capture unscrambled signals. That means any channels you can get with a regular TV without a cable box. This means most analog channels and usually a few of the digital ones (usually just the digital/HD versions of the local networks you could get with an antenna, but your mileage may vary).

To capture the remaining channels you need the cable box to receive you have three options.
- For SD you can use a cable box connected to a regular tuner card via Svideo.
- You can do an R5000 mod to the cable box (if supported), to capture any channel you receive on the cable box. Advantage is it's all digital, downside is it's expensive and only available on certain cable boxes.
- You can use the HD PVR to capture the analog HD output of a cable box to an H.264 file (similar to the type captured by your camcorder). The HD PVR is cheaper than an R5000 but many are having issues with one let alone two or three.

With options 1 and 3 you will need some sort of IR blaster or firewire to allow the computer to change channels on the cable box.

Secondly, I want to be able to watch LIVE TV in every room independently. Be able to record LIVE TV shows and watch them on any TV in the house at anytime.

This will help to determine how many tuners you will need. How many TVs will be watching live TV at the same time? How often do you watch channels that require the cable box?
People tend to think they need more tuners than they do. If you normally watch the major networks or analog channels then you don't need to use Sage for watching live TV unless you need channels you can't get without a cable box.
I have one hybrid tuner that can record analog SD channels (or capture from an Svideo port) and one digital for my locals in HD. Then an HD PVR to get all the HD channels my cable company offers. I don't have any conflicts but I'm the only user so my usage isn't as high as yours might be.

As for recording and playback that's the basic function of Sage. The only issue here is how you plan on watching Sage at each location. The HD200 is the easiest way but they're sold out right now. Clients are your only other option, which means a computer at each location capable of video playback of all your files. You will want to have wired ethernet at each TV, wireless isn't usually reliable enough to be satisfactory.

Thirdly, be able to access all of our home videos (95% shot on an Sony HDR-SR1 in the AVCHD Codec. Although it will not play my m2ts files, it says "There was a problem rendering the video portion of the content for playback".)I would like to play our music library (Mostly .MP3's and WMA's) and view our pictures (all jpeg's) that reside on our current pc and watch and listen to them at anytime.

I'm not sure about the AVCHD files, with the right codec they should play from the computer, and I'm pretty sure the HD200 supports them but I can't verify that. All the other files are fine and supported by Sage by default.

I have a Dell XPS 410 Dual Core 2.4GHz PC with 2 Gig's of memory 500GB HD. (I will need more space in the future for recordings.)

That should be fine as a server. The cable cards are all hardware based so the computer is just saving the output, not much horsepower required. Playback is a different animal. For that you want a good graphics card and some decent video playback software/codecs. You will want a dedicated HDD for recording Sage videos formatted with 64K sectors and reduce load on the HDDs. You can record to a partition on your existing drive but the 64K sectors are important for your recordings, and it's usually best to keep this separate from your other files.

Sage (or any software PVR) is much more flexible than the cable or sat DVRs but they're not cheap to set up, and they can take much more time and effort. There's LOTS of info available here. Use the search feature and you'll find the answer to about any question you might have.

Good luck!

[SWKerr]

You really need to get some more information about your cable service because they do things differently depending on providers. I assume that since you have HDTVs that you also have some kind of digital HD programming from the cable company. I also assume that this is in the US.

Just about all digital signals are encrypted in some way so you need the cable box in order to decrypt the signal to see the picture. The exception to this is usually the local stations which are typically not encrypted but you do need a tuner card that supports QAM to be able to see them. The old analog channels may or may not be encrypted. Most cable companies encrypt their premium channels but quite often some of the extended basic channels are not and you do not need the cable box to see them. You can call the cable company to find all this out but chances are they guy you talk to will not know and will just confuse you. I would suggest that you take one of your HDTVs and put the cable directly into the TV and run a channel scan with the TV’s setup utility. Whatever you see at that point is what is not encrypted and that is what you can get without the cable boxes.

What to get?

You will easily be able capture all unencrypted content with most tuner cards but make sure you get one that supports QAM and has a dual tuner. I would recommend the HD Homerun or Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1800 but there are many other options. With this you will be able to capture two HD local shows at the same time as well as any unencrypted analog stations.

I would guess you will still need to keep one cable box for all the encrypted stuff but that will depend on your viewing habits. There is not much chance that anything but local HD content will be unencrypted. Also most premium analog stations are probably also encrypted. To capture this content you will need a capture device that will be plugged into the output from the cable box. A capture card will change the channel on the box at the appropriate time and then capture the signal that would normally go to you TV. For analog stations this is cheap and easy to do with a lot of different cards but to capture HD content your only option is to use the Hauppauge HD-PVR. For the HDPVR to work you will need to have component cable output from your cable box (This will be the Red/green/Blue connection). You can capture HD stations in analog without the HD-PVR but you will loose some of the quality of the picture. Analog stations will just a good as they do today.

Your current hardware?
Your current machine should be fine except for possibly the Video Card. The capture of the content does not really take that much horsepower but playback of HD is a different story. I would probably buy a Video card with HDMI output to make life easier since they are fairly inexpensive and will virtually guarantee decent playback.

You will also need a local network with Ethernet cable running to each TV. A wireless connect will probably not be reliable for HD content.

************
If I were you just getting started I would go to NewEgg and order a Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1600 ($80) and an ATI 3450 ($40). Make sure you get a HDMI cable as well. This will give you enough to get started with a limited investment. You should be able to capture one local HD at a time and anything else in analog through the cable box. It will come with a remote control and an IR blaster to change the channel on the cable box. Hook it up to SageTV on one TV and play with it for awhile. You can always add the HD-PVR and other stuff later.

If you want to extend it to the rest of the house you can add client PCs or the Sage extenders. (The Sage extender is $200 and figure $400 per for a Client PC) You can also add a Hauppauge MPV for the old Analog set for only about $100 but it may have issues with some HD content.

[pjpjpjpj]

agdm619, you did a great job explaining your setup, but we need to know what you want to accomplish, TV-wise. The above responses are great, but they might get a bit confusing to first-timers since they basically throw everything at you. To narrow it down, we should start by finding out what you want (personally I think this should be a standard "answer this first" for new posters, but that's just me... only because it makes it a lot easier for us to help). Assuming your non-TV wants can all be satisfied (home videos, MP3, photo, etc.), what are your TV goals?

First, pick one of these (or modify/qualify):

1) All HD recording, all channels, all the time, need all the cable/sat channels, premium channels, etc.
2) HD for locals and maybe a few other random channels, but you just want the recording capability, regardless of quality, and if it's HD, it's "gravy" (as long as all cable channels are available, either HD or SD).
3) I really only want the local channels (sounds like you don't want this, but if you did, can you get your locals with an antenna?)

Then, a few hardware options (pick one):

4) I want a simple box at each TV that accesses a central server PC (with all my media on it), that is hidden away somewhere (no intent to watch TV on it!).
5) I have multiple PCs (or will buy them) because I would rather have a fully-functional PC at each TV (or at least several).
6) At least one of my TVs will have the server computer "at" it, or I want to make the server PC monitor another "TV viewing station".

Finally, describe your household viewing habits:

7) Number of potential viewers of programs simultaneously (basically, how many people in the house or how many TVs will ever be on the system).
8) Most amount of shows that you might ever want to record simultaneously (note that "recording" includes live TV viewing through the Sage system). Think about the shows that you record, how many are on at once, and the possibility that there could also be a "one time" show (say a sporting event) on at the same time, too...
9) Is it possible for you to route network cable (CAT 5/6) to each TV that you want on the system, and have a router/switch/hub somewhere central?

If you can pick/answer the above, it will be pretty easy for us to tell you specifically what you need.

[agdm619]

I really want to thank you guy's for your responses. Just to make sure I understand, the HD200 is the HD Theater box right? Sorry, I'm so new to these products I don’t know the lingo yet I would most likely use the HD Theater box instead of having a PC at every TV. To me that would be a deal breaker, who wants PC's all over the house, not to mention all the maintenance. To me, one PC should be able to handle everything along with the HD Theater Boxes on the TV's throught out the house. As far as the video card goes, I have the Nvidia Geforce 8800GTX 768MB Card. In your posts you talk about how important the video card is, but if I am using the HD Theater boxes on the TV’s where does the PC video card come into play?

To give you some more information on my current setup...I have 2 Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300HDC DVR's and 1 Scientific Atlanta Explorer 4350HDC. I looked up the R5000 and they did not mention support for Scientific Atlanta or Cisco.

Thanks,

Aaron

[dgeezer]

If you are going to use the HD200 extenders then your server doesn't need any video card at all. My server is an older Athlon 64. It used to have an Nvidea 7series card installed (that could occasionally play skip-free HDTV) but I removed it to save a little electricity since my server now runs headless. It's been sitting in the corner of my basement for 4 months now.

I am running 2 extenders 1-HD100 and 1-HD200 with no problems off this PC.

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by agdm619

Just to make sure I understand, the HD200 is the HD Theater box right?

Correct.

Sorry, I'm so new to these products I don’t know the lingo yet I would most likely use the HD Theater box instead of having a PC at every TV. To me that would be a deal breaker, who wants PC's all over the house, not to mention all the maintenance. To me, one PC should be able to handle everything along with the HD Theater Boxes on the TV's throught out the house.

Yes, one PC should easily be able to handle recording duties and streaming to three HD200s.

As far as the video card goes, I have the Nvidia Geforce 8800GTX 768MB Card. In your posts you talk about how important the video card is, but if I am using the HD Theater boxes on the TV’s where does the PC video card come into play?

It doesn't. If all the server is doing is recording and playback it doesn't really need a graphics card at all (unless you actually want to use it for computer stuff). Most of us just have it in a closet with no keyboard, mouse, or monitor and use Windows Remote Desktop to perform updates and make changes to the server. The graphics card is only vital if you're using it for playback.

To give you some more information on my current setup...I have 2 Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300HDC DVR's and 1 Scientific Atlanta Explorer 4350HDC. I looked up the R5000 and they did not mention support for Scientific Atlanta or Cisco.

Then unless your cable company offers a different type of box you'll have to use the Hauppage HD PVR for recording encrypted HD video.

The thing to remember before you plunk down money on two or three HD PVRs is that depending on which shows you watch and record a cheaper
video card can get you a good chunk of your channels.

[agdm619]

Sorry pjpjpjpj, I didnt see your post before I posted...


Answer to first question.

1) All HD recording, all channels, all the time, need all the cable/sat channels, premium channels, etc. (Im paying for it, why would I not want it? )

Answer to Second question.

I want a simple box at each TV that accesses a central server PC (with all my media on it), that is hidden away somewhere (no intent to watch TV on it!).

To Answer the last question.

There could be all three Tv's going at the same time watching something different on each TV and recording another show or two at the same time. But, I would say at least watching 2 TV's and recording something at the same happens almost daily. As far as running Cat5/6 to every TV, there is not problem with that...I already have a Gigabit network in the house.

Thanks for any help!

Aaron

[pjpjpjpj]

agdm619,

From your responses, you will need what was described by others above. It sounds like you will need multiple cable set-top boxes (potentially 4 or 5, the way you describe it?), and that many of the HD-PVRs as well. Every program that you are either recording or "watching live" at once will need a cable box and an HD-PVR (remember that anything you "watch live" is being recorded, so that counts as a "tuner taken").

First off, you will need the HD200 ("Theater"), for each TV you want on the system. They are currently out of stock but supposed to be returning soon (see announcements on this site). They will all need to be connected to your home network. All the cable STBs will be located at your server (not at their respective TVs), and each one will have an associated HD-PVR. The HD-PVRs connect to the cable box via component, and connect to your server via USB, and they change the channel on the cable box with a USB-UIRT. Your server PC (that you described) is fine (it's actually more than you need since you won't be watching TV on it), but you will need more HDD space!

If you are concerned about the number of cable boxes and HD-PVRs required, one way you could reduce the number would be - if possible where you live - to have an antenna on each TV. That way if one of the users in your house wanted to watch something live from local network TV and all the SageTV tuners were taken, they could use the antenna to watch that show. They wouldn't have P/DVR functionality (timeshifting, etc), but it would save you on upfront costs.

[agdm619]

When I first wrote this post, I had said that I could'nt get any of my AVCHD video files to play...now that I have been playing with Sage for a week or so I have still not figured out how to get my .M2TS files to play. Here is the way I'm setup. (Note: This setup is for demoing the software only, I will be running the HD200's throught the house later, but for now I would like my server to be able to play them.)

• SageTV 6.4.8.184
• Windvd 9 plus (my m2ts files will play in it fine)
• VLC Media Player ( m2ts files will play in it fine)
• Sony Motion Picture Browser (m2ts files will play in it fine) (it's the software that came with my HDR-SR1)

Is there something I need to do in SageTV?

Thanks
Aaron