My Better-Half's Complaint(s)

[DFA]

I do agree with her though.

This is not so much a bug but an annoyance / functionality thing.

When pulling up the Guide, it frequently has gone to the begining (lowest channel number). I'm not sure of the events that cause it to go there, but ideally, the opening of the guide from "live" TV would always open with the viewed channel in the middle (or at least at the top). I can't think of any exceptions for this and would seem like a moderate task to sync the Guide opening position with the channel currently being viewed.

I can't recall exactly what the behavior of 1.4 was since it was not used very long before starting to use 2.xy and also not with so much scrutiny. My wife is starting to take the HTPC seriously and has been giving me lots of feedback (mostly not good).

Also, there was a thread on the AVS Forum about the delay with UIRT channel change relaying. The channel change delay setting in Sage does not have any effect below a certain value. I have mine set at 10 ms but the start of output from the blaster is much longer than that and takes the fun out of surfing and is a usability issue. Is this minimum (but lengthy) fixed delay threshold a Sage issue or USB-UIRT issue? That needs to be known in order to know where to plead the case. The AVS Forum thread can be found here

I have always wondered as to the usefulness of the "Channel change delay parameter". Wanting any delay, let alone longer delay in response a from the STB seems analogous to wanting a flat tire on your car.

Anyway, the delay thing is an ongoing complaint from the troops. They know that it can't be entirely eliminated because of PVR base functionality, but the lag in IR code relaying adds quite a bit to it all if not the bulk. The inherent Sage PVR delay by itself is not all that bad IMHO.

DFA

[salsbst]

Originally posted by DFA
When pulling up the Guide, it frequently has gone to the beggining (lowest channel number).

I find this annoying, too. I'm sure it will be fixed. It did not do this in 1.4.

Also, there was a thread on the AVS Forum about the delay with UIRT channel change relaying....Is this minimum (but lengthy) fixed delay threshold a Sage issue or USB-UIRT issue?

I think it's not a USB-UIRT issue. I use the USB-UIRT with Girder and don't have any delay.

I have always wondered as to the usefulness of the "Channel change delay parameter". Wanting any delay, let alone longer delay in response from the STB seems analogous to wanting a flat tire on your car.

I think it is to avoid mixing IR signals (i.e. the first channel number being sent to the STB and the last button you pressed on your remote), or it may be to avoid lockups in certain IRTs.

[m0ng00se30]

yeah the delay can be annoying.. its been the hardest thing to "teach" my wife... if she wants to watch something and the turn isn't instant she start hammering on the remote to make it turn, and it messes up the UIRT sending signals to my dish.. I wish the delay wasn't there but I see the need for it... unless you have serial control which has to be a near perfect solution. I would think!!

--Mike

[chrisc16]

Has anyone else used GBPVR? I installed that on my server, and found that it changes channels (with the same USB-UIRT as Sage, to the same Dish Network STB) MUCH MUCH faster than Sage. It really is almost as fast as if you changed the channel with the Dish remote.

Ever since I experienced GBPVR, I've been blaming Sage for the slow channel changes. Hopefully it's something they can work on in the future.

-Chris

[DFA]

salsbst:

The way I see it, the delay starts AFTER Sage has received the numbers and the EON (Enter). Therfore, there are no more IR codes coming (unless someone keys for some unknown reason which can happen at any time) and no reason to hold up the blasting.

Anyway, maybe someone would want channel change delay for some reason or other but if I set it at 5 ms, I'd like it to be 5 ms (or as fast as code execution will allow); that's all. It would improve the comments from the peanut gallery not to mention that I would like that better as well.

DFA

[salsbst]

Just to clarify, I'm not saying that it's not a problem... just trying to guess at the rationale. If it isn't paying attention to the delay that you set, that sounds like a plain old bug.

[DFA]

I'm not taking issue, I just wanted to explain that the channel numbers are given all at one time after Sage has gotten the EON so there should not be any potential for IR cross talk unless trying to trip it up. The behavior was the same in 1.4.

In fact, as m0ng00se30 has pointed out, impatience while waiting for the relay action causes users to start pushing buttons again which in fact invites for the liklyhood of IR collision.

DFA

[salsbst]

I was talking about the enter button followed by the first channel number.

[DFA]

My wife had two other comments about functionality and usability. First, let me preface with that my wife likes the functionality of the Scientific Atlantic digital STB. And familiararity with one thing breeds contempt for everything else.

That being said, she likes that for the STB when viewing, if you press the left or right arrow key, info comes up for the next lower or higher channel. Continuing to arrow left or right continues to decrement or increment channel OSD info. I suppose that while OSD info is active, the channel up / down could make 5 to 10 channel info (page) jumps at a time like it does in the guide. Hitting the select (enter) will cause it to go to that channel or no action causes the OSD to disappear on time-out or pressing "info" immediately cancels info OSD.

We spend most of our time in the lower (2-13) channels or in the 700+ premium channels. This is a nice way to navigate short distances among adjacent or near-adjacent channels while seeing / getting the info before committing.

Finally, she complains that the OSD info text is a little small. The box might be a bit bigger (taller) or wrap around the side to allow for more and larger text.

On the positive, the product is great and unbelievable that one / two guys are solely responsible. Some polish is yet needed but is coming for sure.

I hope Jeff scans these threads and posts to sift out cock-pit errors and isolated issues from global functionality and bug problems.

DFA

[glbrown]

The bad news is that I hate those long channel delays too. I used to bitch about charter cable here in reno being pretty slow changing channels too.

The good news is that I haven't watched live tv since last november when I installed sage. A good example. I installed .13 fresh yesterday at noon. I set up a half a dozen favorites and turned on intelligent recording. 30 hours later I have a full lineup of all of my usual shows plus some good ones I probably would have never noticed if I had to manually record from the guide. There's some junk in there too but give us time.

/sarcasm on
Quit surfing the live guide like you are used to on those cable boxes and let sage surf for you. In a day or two, you will have more content in recordings than hours in the day to watch it all. Day after day, I fine tune the recorded stuff by marking junk as don't like and sage seems to get smarter.

I spend about a half an hour in the live guide friday night to set some manuals and reset some favorites and I am good to go for a whole week.
/sarcasm off

What I hated most about 900 channel cable/sat systems was the inordinate amount of time I spent aimlessly surfing this huge epg looking for something to watch. Sage made all that go away and I'm a happy camper. I have also become much more discriminating in what I watch.

[DFA]

/Sarcasm ON
So, the solutiion is for my family and I to adapt our lives to the software rather than adapting the software to our lives. Makes sense.
/Sarcasm OFF

DFA

[gplasky]

No-I think glbrown was giving you an alternative and a example of how he uses it But for your scenario to become a reality you need to go to the beta bug form and enter that as a request.

Gerry

[mlbdude]

Ohhhh, I wonder what the arrows next to the description are for? Hmmmm

In reality you will find that your viewing habits will change whether you want them to or not. If you setup your favorites and use the like, don't like commands as well as IR you will especially find this to be true. However, we all started right where you and your family are so I can remember wanting the same things. Have fun .

[glbrown]

I agree that like it or not, your tv viewing habits will change with sage. It's been a great change for me and I find it too easy to evangelize. The best part is that you have an increasing number of choices.

enjoy it in your own way.

[Opus4]

Originally posted by mlbdude
Ohhhh, I wonder what the arrows next to the description are for? Hmmmm

OK, I give up... what are they for? I don't see them... unless that is your own modified version?

- Andy

[mlbdude]

Yes, sorry. That is a custom OSD that may come with Sage at some point if Jeff likes it. As usual, though it will be available to everyone at some point regardless.

[stanger89]

Originally posted by mlbdude
Yes, sorry. That is a custom OSD that may come with Sage at some point if Jeff likes it. As usual, though it will be available to everyone at some point regardless.

God, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you!!! STOP DOING THAT

But seriously, it's almost a cliche at this point but "Tivo (Sage in this case) will change your life." I never watch live TV unless I'm away from Sage. I just go into Sage Recordings and find something I want to watch and watch it.

[DFA]

Sheesh

Sadly,some of us will not be able to evolve and elevate ourselves to a higher plain of existence which would indeed make these suggestions moot.

Hopefully, in the interest of a well rounded product, the needs of the "veiwing-challenged" will not be over looked.

DFA

[Llamas]

While I'm in the "Tivo has changed me life" category, I've also shown frustration in other threads when suggestions to improve my user scenario have been met with the attitude that the fault lies with what I want to do, not with the product.

My response to this it that is should be made configurable. Isn't that the beauty of software? Of course, you can only get so many options in, and still finish the products, but...

Philosophy aside, I wonder if the IR blast after enter methodology is a requirement for keeping Sage in sync with the external box. If that's the case, then the browse before select (the Motorola boxes do this, too) would be cool. There's also just bringing up the live guide (I agree on the annoying positioning, though). That's what I've done in the past on my Tivos on the rare occasions I was channel surfing.

Has your wife set up some favorites? That might pull her into checking for already recorded shows, and reduce the visibility of the IR delay. What becomes annoying once you are used to watching recordings is that you can't FF through commercials in live TV. I don't know if we'll be able to do anything about that, though.

--Mike

[DFA]

FF'ing throgh commercials when viewing recorded shows seems also like a "must have". We currently just keep hitting the FF button which takes little jumps (at least it did in 1.4; don't recall if I've tried it yet in .12 / .13).

DFA

I refuse to be assimilated by the Collective.