6.5.3 with HD-PVR PC/Mac odds-n-ends feedback

[GregT]

Server: Athlon 64 X2, Vista
Client: Mac Pro, 10.5.5

Some observations that might be of interest:

Server only consderations:
Probably just video card limitations, but all modes/combinations produce tearing, except overlay. Overlay seems to work well. In windowed mode (not full screen) most modes work acceptably, but overlay is still always the cleanest video.

Is there a way to adjust the clock to match the delayed offset of the video display? Each time there is a program change where one show ends, and the next begins, the HD-PVR shuts off, then turns back on again. This results in a brief loss of audio/video (5+). The HD-PVR cycles off/on based on the current time, but the video is delayed, due to SageTV recording content for PVR functionality. So, there is always an interruption to the beginning/ending of each show. It's brief, but it would be nice if it was timed correctly to match the time-delay generated by recording operations.

Mac Client observations:
Playback of HD-PVR files is now working on the Mac client in 6.5.3. I have wireless N, and at 720p, I can play liveTV and recordings on the Mac client with 'Great' quality setting. 'Best' quality setting produces a few jumps in the video/audio.

I can only play full screen on my primary display. I have 3 displays on the Mac Pro, all connected via DVI. All 3 screens will play the video inside a window. The only screen that plays full screen is whatever screen is currently the primary screen (containing the menu bar and dock). If I try to play full screen on either of the other two, the entire display goes to black, and I can still hear audio. This behavior followed whatever screen I move the menu/doc to. This means that I can't watch full screen, and still have access to the menu bar and dock. That includes no access to the Mac volume slider when in full screen mode.

The only reason I have the Vista box is to run the server. It sure would be nice to have the HD-PVR functioning on the Mac with the server software. Is that coming any time soon?

I've been using Air Mouse on my iPhone as a remote control for both the PC and the Mac. Not perfect, but certainly good enough at this stage. It has motion sensing ability to move the mouse, a slide pad to move the mouse, as well direct text/numeric entry. It means I can just launch Air Mouse on my iPhone, and navigate the Sage menus from the iPhone.

If I find more, I'll post. Thanks SageTV, for continuing development to include the Mac community!

[caffcomm]

I have Beta 6.5.3 on my Vista 32bit Sage Server and Beta 6.5.3 Mac Client on my MacBook Pro (10.5.5 OS) and still no picture for either recorded file play back or Live TV.

The best I've be able to accomplish is 1 frame (the first) being displayed and I had to set the HD-PVR Recording quality down to Great to get that much.

Any advice?

[GregT]

Is your server capable of playback as well? If so, I'd suggest starting there, and making sure that you can play live and recorded directly on the server. Start at absolutely the ground floor, in terms of resolutions and quality. HD content consumes considerable resources, and not everything can keep up (video, network, cpu, memory).

My server is an AMD 4400+ Athlon 64 X2, with nVidia (8600 if I recall), and a couple gig of RAM.

I have my DirecTV receiver set at 720p currently (all the time).

On my server setup, I am using Overlay mode (works with all the decoders except Cyberlink I think, but I'm currently set to Microsoft). I have my quality setting at 'Great'. I've had considerable problems with anything other than overlay mode.

I had to experiment a lot with the server setup to get it working fairly reliably.

On the client side, I have not tried it on my Mac Book Pro. When I get a chance, I'll install the beta in trial mode on that and see how it does. The main reason I was getting no video at all on my client was due to quality settings being set too high for the client to keep up with. When I reduced quality, I got results. On my standard G wireless network, I had to put the quality all the way down to the absolute lowest setting to get consistent video. On my N Wireless, I have been able to bump it back up to 'Great', but I can't run at 1080i resolution. On my Mac Pro, I'm seeing about 25-30% CPU utilization on all 4 cores, to play back the 720p content, at 'Great' quality. On a dual core machine, that would be a significant core load, but it should work.

I also have noticed that video playback on the client works best when the Sage window is on the primary display, and not a secondary one. I have also noticed that once the client encounters a problem (like lack of bandwidth in my wireless setup), it's challenged to recover from it on it's own.

[caffcomm]

All of what you say makes sense, thank you.

Playback on the server is working perfectly and has been for a while. I've had Sage and the Mac client for many months now and I've been waiting for an update with better Mac support.

I am running on a Gig Wired connection so bandwidth isn't an issue. Having said that, I see the progress bar on the client shows the correct length for the clip but the current position red line never moves and I only get an initial 3Mb/s bandwidth spike at the beginning of playback then no throughput. I will continue to look into this.

I just changed the server from EVR to Overlay, same problems.

[GregT]

It seems to run fine on my MacBook Pro as well. I just installed the beta, and it tuned right in. As expected, I'm seeing around 60-70% CPU utilization on both cores.

My current quality/resolution settings produce a fairly constant 1-1.2 MB/s bandwidth. On startup, I see an initial spike of about 2 MB/s.

I have not done any customizations at all, either on the server or on the client, to the properties files. All my config changes have been made through the Sage interface.

Also, I was able to get video on all versions (I started with 6.4.8). My only problem was that prior to 6.5.3, I was not getting the correct dimensions on the client, so only part of the image was visible. The only times I've had black screens are when the server has encountered a problem of some sort, or too much data was being passed for the client to receive and process.

Something fairly specific, but if the server is recording a show, and I tell the client to watch live TV, if the client was not already tuned to the channel that the server is recording, the client goes black. The server and client both maintain their last tuned channels. So, if the client is on a different channel than the server is recording, and the client requests the channel change, the result is exactly what you described, with an initial high spike, followed by no bandwidth use observed, and a black screen. When this happens, I have no choice but to quit the client, and wait until the recording is done on the server.

Seems most likely that it's something going wrong with the communication/negotiation between the client/server. You might double-check that there isn't anything running on either machine that might impede communications between the two.

[caffcomm]

Again, you make perfect sense.

I have run tests on bandwidth (iperf) and scanned the server ports. There is nothing blocking it unless it's the cheap switch it's sitting on.

Any idea what port the server runs on off hand? Too tired to start another major forum search. Then I can do more specific scans/test.

[caffcomm]

based on some of the tweaking you did, I have tried making sure all the settings are correct and the same on the server and client, including the startup live tv channel (nice find BTW). Still not working.

The progress bar continues to show all the green recorded video available and the progress shows it's playing, but the current position red line doesn't move. Also, the server shows the REC icon when I start live tv on the client and when I stop the live tv on the client, the server drops the Rec icon.

So there is 2 way communication but only for control commands it seems not the video stream. Hence my question about ports.

I'd love to hear from others regarding their Mac to PC experiences as well. Or are we the pioneers? It would be nice if a Sage tech could jump in and give us some detailed technical help.

[caffcomm]

I also notice that when I launch the LiveTV or Recordings, a new process starts on the Maca called mplayer. And when I stop playback, the mplayer process stays running.

Stopping all of them made no difference or a reboot.

[GregT]

mplayer is the embedded multimedia player that SageTV uses to present video (and probably other parts of the SageTV experience.

I hesitate to call it 'normal' behavior', but it does seem to be designed that there are multiple instances of it when you launch video, and it does also seem to be designed that they continue to run, even if you quit Sage.

I would not recommend killing them. In general, it's not a good idea killing random processes, and in this case, killing them seems to throw Sage into a tizzy. When I just tried killing them on my Mac Pro, Sage refused to play video, and eventually locked up.

To get it playing again, I had to relaunch it 3 times, and do so by going to 'Program Guide', and picking the station I knew the server was already tuned to, and pick that station. I didn't get video again until 5 mplayer instances had managed to launch.

[sandor]

mplayer is what the latest betas seem to be using exclusively for playback on the mac. though 6.4.4 was supposed to implement QT as the main player with mplayer being the fallback.

i am actually in contact with support in regards to this, as i cannot get ac3 passthrough or mepg audio out via 6.5.x and the default mplayer, yet the files work perfectly via QT player outside of sage.

[caffcomm]

I had 10-15 mplayers going. Attempting to launch video usually runs 2-3 mplayer sessions. The big problem with this is that they don't seem to stop when not in use. This will no doubt have memory leak issues (uh oh, sounds like Microcrap to me)

Although I this probably has very little to do with my original problem... No streaming video from the Vista Server to Mac client yet all control signals (stop, channel changes and time line bar etc) seem to work.

Does anyone know what port and how the streaming side is different from the control system?

[Vaskill]

Originally Posted by caffcomm

I had 10-15 mplayers going. Attempting to launch video usually runs 2-3 mplayer sessions. The big problem with this is that they don't seem to stop when not in use. This will no doubt have memory leak issues (uh oh, sounds like Microcrap to me)

Although I this probably has very little to do with my original problem... No streaming video from the Vista Server to Mac client yet all control signals (stop, channel changes and time line bar etc) seem to work.

Does anyone know what port and how the streaming side is different from the control system?

I seem to be having the same issue. Funny thing is that I used to get audio and video (with only 1 frame every 3 seconds) on my Mac Book Pro (Intel C2D 2.5 Ghz, 4 Gb ram, 8600GS 512MB dedicated video ram).

So, in my efforts to trouble shoot why I could stream HD via VLC and not Placeshifter, I changed some of the miniclient settings in Sage.Properties to see if the SageTV server was transcoding to 1.5 MB/sec.

Now I get the exact same symptoms as you guys (see my log attached) as it indicates that MPlayer is crashing. Even after reverting to my manual backup of sage.properties, the error now persists.

[caffcomm]

I'm using the Mac Sage Client not the placeshifter. Here are what seem to be the relevant console log entries in my case:

09/12/08 4:14:01 PM [0x0-0xf10f1].tv.sage.SageTVClient[2250] Tue 12/9 16:14:01.404 ThisSTVSetVersionNum=2008120301, STV File=/Library/Application Support/SageTV/Data/STVs/SageTV3/SageTV3.xml
09/12/08 4:14:01 PM [0x0-0xf10f1].tv.sage.SageTVClient[2250] Tue 12/9 16:14:01.486 Global variables already set.
09/12/08 4:14:01 PM [0x0-0xf10f1].tv.sage.SageTVClient[2250] Tue 12/9 16:14:01.486 Theme settings already loaded.
09/12/08 4:14:01 PM [0x0-0xf10f1].tv.sage.SageTVClient[2250] Tue 12/9 16:14:01.535 Starting MacIRC
09/12/08 4:14:01 PM [0x0-0xf10f1].tv.sage.SageTVClient[2250] Tue 12/9 16:14:01.576 Starting Online Video properties updater thread.
09/12/08 4:14:01 PM [0x0-0xf10f1].tv.sage.SageTVClient[2250] Tue 12/9 16:14:01.577 Thread=Thread[Thread-5,6,main], priority=6
09/12/08 4:14:01 PM [0x0-0xf10f1].tv.sage.SageTVClient[2250] Tue 12/9 16:14:01.579 After minimizing priority, priority=1
09/12/08 4:14:01 PM [0x0-0xf10f1].tv.sage.SageTVClient[2250] Tue 12/9 16:14:01.585 Ending Online Video properties updater thread. No Update needed or it isn't time to check again.
09/12/08 4:14:36 PM [0x0-0xf10f1].tv.sage.SageTVClient[2250] Tue 12/9 16:14:36.052 MPLAYER CRASHED - mark the load as failed.
09/12/08 4:14:36 PM [0x0-0xf10f1].tv.sage.SageTVClient[2250] Tue 12/9 16:14:36.052 MPLAYER CRASHED - mark the load as failed.
09/12/08 4:14:41 PM [0x0-0xf10f1].tv.sage.SageTVClient[2250] Tue 12/9 16:14:41.707 MPLAYER CRASHED - mark the load as failed.
09/12/08 4:14:41 PM [0x0-0xf10f1].tv.sage.SageTVClient[2250] Tue 12/9 16:14:41.707 MPLAYER CRASHED - mark the load as failed.
09/12/08 4:15:01 PM [0x0-0xf10f1].tv.sage.SageTVClient[2250] Tue 12/9 16:15:01.765 Global variables already set.
09/12/08 4:15:01 PM [0x0-0xf10f1].tv.sage.SageTVClient[2250] Tue 12/9 16:15:01.765 Theme settings already loaded.
09/12/08 4:15:01 PM [0x0-0xf10f1].tv.sage.SageTVClient[2250] Tue 12/9 16:15:01.834 Starting Online Video properties updater thread.
09/12/08 4:15:01 PM [0x0-0xf10f1].tv.sage.SageTVClient[2250] Tue 12/9 16:15:01.835 Thread=Thread[Thread-52,6,main], priority=6
09/12/08 4:15:01 PM [0x0-0xf10f1].tv.sage.SageTVClient[2250] Tue 12/9 16:15:01.836 After minimizing priority, priority=1
09/12/08 4:15:01 PM [0x0-0xf10f1].tv.sage.SageTVClient[2250] Tue 12/9 16:15:01.837 Ending Online Video properties updater thread. No Update needed or it isn't time to check again.
09/12/08 4:15:36 PM [0x0-0xf10f1].tv.sage.SageTVClient[2250] Tue 12/9 16:15:36.128 Connection lost from: null by:java.net.SocketException: Socket closed
09/12/08 4:15:38 PM [0x0-0xf10f1].tv.sage.SageTVClient[2250] Tue 12/9 16:15:38.175 Error communicating with server:java.net.SocketException: Socket closed

[caffcomm]

To add, I found the ports required and all are open and accessible on both the server and client.

This seems to be an mplayer issue, correct?

I did an upgrade/replace when I installed the 6.5.5 client and not an uninstall of the 6.4.8.

[sandor]

have you submitted a bug report yet? i did with regards to all the issues i am having with ac3 in the betas, as well as the lack of Sage using QT as the default player.

[caffcomm]

Not yet. As I'm not sure if it is a bug since it works for GregT.

[GregT]

Yes, it WAS working for me, on two different Macs.

However, I applied a Java update (Java 6, update 11) to the Vista server this morning, and it started behaving just like you are describing.

I am not sure what version of Java I had prior to that update applying today. I think it was up to date as of a couple weeks ago. I ran System restore to put it to last night's restore point, but that did not roll back Java.

I'll find a previous version of Java to roll back to, and see what effect it has. Check and see what Java version you're running.

[GregT]

I uninstalled Java and SageTV, and then re-ran the 6.5.3 beta installer (which installed Java 6 Update 10). This is what I would have been running on prior to Java update 11 applying today.

Problem is still there.

I was running fine up through last night. Today, no go. I know there were Vista updates applied last night, and the Java update asked to be applied today. I didn't try to watch on the client until after the java update applied today, but I have not gotten Video at all today. I can control the server ,and see the video progress bar, etc., but am just getting a black screen.

Needless to say, I'm suspicious of Java playing a part in this.

[GregT]

Smoking gun not found, I'm afraid.

I am back to working with the Mac Client, however.

Going back to Java update 10 did not make a difference, but rebooting my switch did. I noticed that the bandwidth between server and client was very erratic. Normally it had been a pretty flat line at about 1.1 MB/s when watching video. Today it was all over the place, with a lot of drops to zero.

I rebooted the switch (which a D-Link 4 port gig switch and N wireless access point), and as soon as I did that, I went right back to normal operation on the client, and now again have a flat line at about 1.1 MB/s.

I then re-applied Java update 11, and things continue to work just fine.

[caffcomm]

Oddly enough I have 2 DLink Gb switch for the server and Mac client, so I tested your solution and removed those from the network and plugged both the server and the client directly into my managed gigabit switch. By setting the recording quality to fair, i got about 2 secs of video, then it died and i can't get it back. No other quality works at all.

Although it is possible that there are minor network blips (there are on every network), this should not cause the stream to die. At the same time, the mplayer app (invoked by java) is definitely a problem. IPerf shows no issues, nor do my managed switch logging.

This flakiness/instability of the client server communications is completely unacceptable. This product is sold as functional and only at beta 6.5.3 is it even close to working? But still not functional/usable?