n00b Questions

[quantumstate]

Hm, as I learn more about this, I find that DirectShow is the way to hardware acceleration of HD video. And that M$ did not provide any sort of user interface for configuring DirectShow filters, because software developers are supposed to do that!

So it seems that SageTV has failed to provide filters to decode our video, and has left us to haphazardly work this out on our own.

Why is this, SageTV?

[gplasky]

Sage provides the SageTV decoder which handles mpeg2 files including HD. It also does hardware acceleration which you can configure in Detailed Settings. h.264 format for HD from the HD-PVR is realitively new. Sage doesn't provide those but if you bought an HD-PVR then you also have TME from Arcsoft which is the decoder you need. The more decoders Sage would provide you the more SageTV would cost you. Those decoders aren't free. No one selling or freely creating a PVR includes a decoder for HD h.264 files. Are you having an issue? Or just whining about the state of affairs in HTPC land?

Gerry

[quantumstate]

I am finally getting a handle on this whole process.

Using GSpot to analyze a transport stream for what it needs in a codec, I find that it cannot understand mpeg4 transport streams at all, so is of little use.

Using GraphStudio to see what filters are put in place by my system for a given transport stream, I find that for mpeg4 files the video pin has nothing! And indeed only the audio stream plays when I play the video in WMC. (Of course it shows fine in VLC, but that has internal decoders) GraphStudio also showed me that the MPC-HC MpaDecFilter audio filter caused the audio stream to be decoded, encoded, and decoded again, so I deregistered that.

I do have MPCVideoDec, and it is registered, but it is not being engaged at all for mpeg4 for some reason.

I am only beginning to understand the meaning of this (from nVidia forum):

With DXVA H.264 VLD mode PowerDVD8 and MPC-HC will have the exact same image quality as the raw H.264 video stream will be passed to the GPU for decoding and it's the exact same stream being decoded.

To enable H.264 decoding on MPC-HC, you need to use EVR as the renderer for Vista and VMR9 Renderless as the renderer for XP.

OK, so this is the most direct way to show a transport stream with HA. Unfortunately, no idea how to implement.

[gplasky]

It's also going to depend on what video card you are using. Hardware Acceleration for h.264 files are not dependant on just one thing. Download yourself DXVA checker.
DXVA Checker
Website:
DXVA website
Load a video and see what your video card does as far as hardware acceleration and see which Directshow filters are on your PC and how it will handle the acceleration.

On my PC I see both Arcsoft and PowerDVD8 can be used but only PowerDVD8 is showing hardware acceleration with my video card. Arcsoft doesn't show any.

Watching h.264 videos using DXVA is a good website that will step you through exactly what you need.

For me, the easiest way to watch a h.264 ts recording with hardware acceleratrion is with SageTV and PowerDVD8. Works everytime. No stutter. No video issues.

gerry

[quantumstate]

Thanks. For mpeg4 it says:
ModeH264_VLD_FGT DXVA1 NV12 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920 x 1080
ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT DXVA1 NV12 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920 x 1080

And check directshow filters fails when I point it at MPCVideoDec. ("CheckFilter failed")

As I say, loading an mpeg4 video shows no video, but does give audio. I'll go through the Watching. Trying to avoid paying for Cyberlink's codecs, as I'm unemployed at the moment. Hope to make this work with MPC's.

[quantumstate]

OK, I guess it's hopeless. The guide "Watching h.264 videos using DXVA" should actually read, "Watching h.264 videos using DXVA in MPC-HC only". Mpeg4 works in MPC-HC, but not in anything else. And even in MPC-HC, standard def is still using ~9% CPU.

Can't afford PowerDVD, so it's hopeless.

Why didn't SageTV include H.264?! Don't most of us watch HD?

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by quantumstate

OK, I guess it's hopeless. The guide "Watching h.264 videos using DXVA" should actually read, "Watching h.264 videos using DXVA in MPC-HC only". Mpeg4 works in MPC-HC, but not in anything else. And even in MPC-HC, standard def is still using ~9% CPU.

Can't afford PowerDVD, so it's hopeless.

Why didn't SageTV include H.264?! Don't most of us watch HD?

I feel you are only reading half posts in this thread, which is why I have chosen not to be involved, but I am going to jump in. First off, MOST HD is in Mpeg2. OTA and QAM are MPEG2. Sage includes this in their Basic codecs. The use of H.264 is relatively new and very limited. Beyond the R5000 mod and the HDPVR, there are no other capture devices that use H.264!! To truly utilize the R5000 mod, you are going to need to find a codec that will work. Plain and simple. You want to blame Sage, but why not blame Nextcomwireless (makers of the R5000) since they didn't provide you with the codec? Truth of the matter is, before spending $350+, one must know what they are buying into and it seems in your case you didn't do this. If you had, you wouldn't even have gone this route since you have to use "winduhs" as you put it.

Just my .02 worth.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by quantumstate

OK, I guess it's hopeless. The guide "Watching h.264 videos using DXVA" should actually read, "Watching h.264 videos using DXVA in MPC-HC only". Mpeg4 works in MPC-HC, but not in anything else. And even in MPC-HC, standard def is still using ~9% CPU.

I missed it, what video card do you have?

Why didn't SageTV include H.264?! Don't most of us watch HD?

Because almost nobody can record H.264. The HD PVR is probably the most prevalent H.264 recorder, and it's only been out a short period of time and it comes with H.264 decoders.

[quantumstate]

Originally Posted by paulbeers

I feel you are only reading half posts in this thread, which is why I have chosen not to be involved, but I am going to jump in. First off, MOST HD is in Mpeg2. OTA and QAM are MPEG2. Sage includes this in their Basic codecs. The use of H.264 is relatively new and very limited. Beyond the R5000 mod and the HDPVR, there are no other capture devices that use H.264!! To truly utilize the R5000 mod, you are going to need to find a codec that will work. Plain and simple. You want to blame Sage, but why not blame Nextcomwireless (makers of the R5000) since they didn't provide you with the codec? Truth of the matter is, before spending $350+, one must know what they are buying into and it seems in your case you didn't do this. If you had, you wouldn't even have gone this route since you have to use "winduhs" as you put it.

Just my .02 worth.

Thanks for the Blame The Victim post, paul. Can you explain to me how I should have known that I'd need codecs, filters, pins, and detectors --in Winduhs-- and would need to learn all the technical details about frames, and VMR9, and every thing else this has turned out to involve? I JUST WANT TO WATCH TV!!

Here's your .02 back.

Originally Posted by stanger89

I missed it, what video card do you have?
Because almost nobody can record H.264. The HD PVR is probably the most prevalent H.264 recorder, and it's only been out a short period of time and it comes with H.264 decoders.

I have the R5000-HD, which is a modification to Dish HD boxes that taps into its guts and gets the pure unencrypted digital transport stream, with no de/reencode, as opposed to the HD-PVR. I record the data exactly as Dish uplinks it.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by quantumstate

I have the R5000-HD, which is a modification to Dish HD boxes that taps into its guts and gets the pure unencrypted digital transport stream, with no de/reencode, as opposed to the HD-PVR. I record the data exactly as Dish uplinks it.

Video card, not capture, I know what an R5000 is, I don't see where you say what video card you have.

[quantumstate]

Oh sorry, the Asus P5N7A-VM mobo with nVidia GeForce 9300 IGP, which is supposed to have integral H.264 and mpeg2 decode.

[quantumstate]

Why do you ask?

[stanger89]

To make sure it was one that actually could decode H.264.

[quantumstate]

Now see; here's what I don't understand:

Why does it say right here that the nVidia GPU does H.264/AVC? Why is it that the nVidia driver does not catch an H.264/AVC stream and decode it? If a dummy codec is necessary to route the stream to the GPU, why doesn't that come with the driver?

A GPU with hardware decode is useless if it can't do hardware decode. Why should I have to buy a software decoder for this, when I have it in hardware? I've already paid for it in hardware once, why should I have to pay for it again?

[gplasky]

The software is the decoder. The hardware does the acceleration of the decoding. It does NOT do the decoding. Any of your mainstream video cards (ATI, nVidia, etc.)is doing acceleration of h.264, mepg2, wmv, etc. They do NOT do the decoding. Thus you need to buy the software decoder. The MVP and the STX-HD100 does the decoding in hardware.

Gerry

[quantumstate]

It seems to me then, that nVidia should provide a stub decoder that will offload the hard work to the GPU. The GPU has the complexity hard-coded, so why duplicate that in software, with the added expense?

Here's another question. I installed the MPC-HC codecs and manually registered each one. Then when running Sage I found my CPU usage went down by 50%, but the picture was soft focus, on the exact same video. I've developed a theory that the reason Sage's decoder takes more CPU is because it is doing sophisticated post-processing to clean up the picture. The Sage decoder makes a much better image. Is there any proof supporting my theory?

And here's another question. I have the MPC-HC MPCVideoDec decoder registered, and indeed in DirectShow Filter Manager it appears in all its glory. It is set above Preferred, DXVA is checked, and (the formerly unchecked) H264/AVC codec is checked. But Sage will still not play mpeg4 shows. They play in VLC and MPC-HC, but not Sage nor WMC. ("The source filter for this file could not be loaded.") Why would this be?

And another question. I have a couple TV shows in my Sage TV directory, which I used file manager to move to a Videos directory. Apparently Sage doesn't scan on the fly because it didn't notice this when I restarted it. So what's the 'correct' way to move a show from recorded directory to videos?

[gplasky]

None of the video companies provide a decoder for h.264 with their cards. No one. nVidias used to sell a decoder for mpeg2. ATI provies an ATI mpeg2 decoder and Avivo. But for h.264 that take advantage of hardware acceleration AND that works with SageTV you're going to have either buy it or a product that provides the decoder like the HD-PVR.

Sage uses its own splitter so if your MPCVideodec requires Hali splitter odds are it is not going to work with SageTV.

On the Sage menu look for Refresh Media Directories (or something like that) and thos files should show up. Is the Videos directory defined in the Sage Detailed Setup as an Import Directory for videos?

Gerry

[quantumstate]

OK, so refresh, that makes sense.

Hm, I now have h.264/AVC. I deinstalled/deregistered all the prior codecs and software I'd installed to try and make this work, and installed ffdshow. That seems to have installed an H.264/AVC codec which is now available to all apps in the system.

Video quality in Sage is pretty good, and CPU is down like 3% on a 1080i video. Must be using HA.

Only thing is a horrible stutter. Every second it pauses for a second. This is not due to hardware being overtaxed, so it must be some setting or an interloping filter somewhere.

Unfortunately I cannot analyze filters with graphedit or graphstudio any more because both crash when I try to load an H.264 file.

[gplasky]

ffdshow is a software-only decoder. You won't be getting any HA out of that. If your CPU is low for h.264 Sage will use whatever decoder you listed it to use in the .properties file. videoframe/h264_video_decoder_filter=



Gerry

[quantumstate]

Beg to differ. Running 3%-10% CPU (E8400) on a 1080i h.264 video. Stutters as above though. I deinstalled ffdshow, and then I could no longer play the file. Reinstalled and I could.

Can't find a solution for the stuttering tho.