Hauppuage HD PVR versus R5000-HD Mod.

[HelenWeathers]

Originally Posted by TorontoSage

I googled it, searched on here, but can't figure out:

What does 'SC" mean?

Google for "5c encryption". It's 5(five)C not SC.

[TorontoSage]

Thanks.

So, cable companies restrict access to video content through firewire ports on cable boxes by employing 5C encryption on those ports? Is this something hardwired into the OS of the cable box or is it something that the cable company (Rogers Toronto in my case) can selectively turn it off or on per show, per channel or per box basis? Or does the cable company disable the firewire ports on a per customer basis before they ship the boxes to the cable company before deployment to customers? If so, does SA do this or, again, the cable company through signals they send out, in this case when you first initialize the box?

Also, is the concern that a user might record and redistribute these signals illicitly to others? One could do that using the component video ports anyway, albeit not in digital format.

[Peter_h]

Originally Posted by TorontoSage

Thanks.

So, cable companies restrict access to video content through firewire ports on cable boxes by employing 5C encryption on those ports? Is this something hardwired into the OS of the cable box or is it something that the cable company (Rogers Toronto in my case) can selectively turn it off or on per show, per channel or per box basis? Or does the cable company disable the firewire ports on a per customer basis before they ship the boxes to the cable company before deployment to customers? If so, does SA do this or, again, the cable company through signals they send out, in this case when you first initialize the box?

Also, is the concern that a user might record and redistribute these signals illicitly to others? One could do that using the component video ports anyway, albeit not in digital format.

All they have to do is send an update to your box and they could turn it off.

I have time warner. I can channel change through firewire but the only channels that I can see video through are the local stations.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by TorontoSage

I googled it, searched on here, but can't figure out:

What does 'SC" mean?

It's 5 (five) C. or DTCP, is a digital rights management (DRM) technology that aims to restrict "digital home" technologies including DVD players and televisions by encrypting interconnections between devices.

From wikipedia.

Gerry

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by gplasky

It's 5 (five) C. or DTCP, is a digital rights management (DRM) technology that aims to restrict "digital home" technologies including DVD players and televisions by encrypting interconnections between devices.

From wikipedia.

Gerry

The actual meaning of 5C is 5 Companies. There were 5 original supporters of the spec, hence it was called 5C.. :-)

[stanger89]

Hey all, I'm back to this question again. Since Dish has added even more HD channels, I'm looking at replacing my last SD "tuner" with an HD one. Got a couple R5000 questions for you....

Do you need to purchase the SageTV support separately from the R5000 itself or is that option just for R5000 owners who bought before?

Well, that might be it, I thought I had some more questions but must have lost them

-oh, does it still have problems recording to UNC paths?

[Slipshod]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Hey all, I'm back to this question again. Since Dish has added even more HD channels, I'm looking at replacing my last SD "tuner" with an HD one. Got a couple R5000 questions for you....

Do you need to purchase the SageTV support separately from the R5000 itself or is that option just for R5000 owners who bought before?

Well, that might be it, I thought I had some more questions but must have lost them

-oh, does it still have problems recording to UNC paths?

I never noticed issues recording to UNC paths (WHS server recording to itself through UNC) on either of my R5000s. There was a software surcharge, but I have two and I don't remember if it was just because of the "more than one" charge or if there was a SageTV charge.

It's got it's own set of quirks on Dish... LiveTV is flaky, and sometimes the recordings have weird playback issues (won't move past a point in the timeline, or start doing a "fast then slow" video playback mode after a point in the recording). Occasionally it failed to record, but the R5000 Proxy one of the users here wrote (don't remember who, but thank you!) seemed to take care of that issue. The playback issues could always be fixed by transcoding.

With Blu-Ray working so well and painlessly now I'm contemplating dropping Dish entirely and getting everything from Netflix. Between Blu-Ray on Netflix and the HDHR locals I'm pretty well set.

[iammike]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Do you need to purchase the SageTV support separately from the R5000 itself or is that option just for R5000 owners who bought before?

I believe it's still a separate fee for the Sage support. I think it's like $50 bucks. They may have had a special a few months ago where they threw in free Sage support, but I'm pretty sure that's over. I've got both the R5000 and HD-PVR working now, although the HD-PVR has only been working for about a day, and the R5000 seems to be a way better solution to me. Just be sure you have a receiver that they support.

Mike

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Slipshod

I never noticed issues recording to UNC paths (WHS server recording to itself through UNC) on either of my R5000s. There was a software surcharge, but I have two and I don't remember if it was just because of the "more than one" charge or if there was a SageTV charge.

OK, at one point I remember something about high CPU usage if you tried to record to a local network/UNC path.

It's got it's own set of quirks on Dish... LiveTV is flaky, and sometimes the recordings have weird playback issues (won't move past a point in the timeline, or start doing a "fast then slow" video playback mode after a point in the recording). Occasionally it failed to record, but the R5000 Proxy one of the users here wrote (don't remember who, but thank you!) seemed to take care of that issue. The playback issues could always be fixed by transcoding.

Interesting, that sounds worse than my HD PVR....

Originally Posted by iammike

I believe it's still a separate fee for the Sage support. I think it's like $50 bucks. They may have had a special a few months ago where they threw in free Sage support, but I'm pretty sure that's over. I've got both the R5000 and HD-PVR working now, although the HD-PVR has only been working for about a day, and the R5000 seems to be a way better solution to me. Just be sure you have a receiver that they support.

Yeah, I just couldn't remember if it was included or not. Why do you say the R5000 is "way better"? As for support, I was planning on just getting a premodded box.

[iammike]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Yeah, I just couldn't remember if it was included or not. Why do you say the R5000 is "way better"? As for support, I was planning on just getting a premodded box.

First the obvious, the R5000 gives a slightly better picture since there's no reencoding of the signal. Second, the R5000 install is a breeze. It's pretty much foolproof, or Mike proof in this case. Third, the R5000 is a little bit more configurable. You can set up precodes for it to send prior to actually tuning to the channel you want. This allows you to send a "select" code prior to the channel codes in case the darn thing has gone into standby mode. Fourth, so far channel changes are a little quicker. On this last point, there may still be a tweak that will make the HD-PVR change channels faster but I haven't found it yet.

If you can find a 211, not a 211K, you can save a few bucks over the premodded boxes from Nextcomm. I picked up 2 refurbished units for $100 each, but I also signed up for service through the same dealer. I'm not sure if you can get that deal for the receivers by themselves.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by iammike

First the obvious, the R5000 gives a slightly better picture since there's no reencoding of the signal. Second, the R5000 install is a breeze. It's pretty much foolproof, or Mike proof in this case. Third, the R5000 is a little bit more configurable. You can set up precodes for it to send prior to actually tuning to the channel you want. This allows you to send a "select" code prior to the channel codes in case the darn thing has gone into standby mode.

FWIW, Sage offers this for any tuner (including the HD PVR), I just set it up since Dish disabled the sleep/update disable function.

Fourth, so far channel changes are a little quicker. On this last point, there may still be a tweak that will make the HD-PVR change channels faster but I haven't found it yet.

The first two are really the only ones that would be of interest to me. I don't surf so I don't care how long it takes to tune.

If you can find a 211, not a 211K, you can save a few bucks over the premodded boxes from Nextcomm. I picked up 2 refurbished units for $100 each, but I also signed up for service through the same dealer. I'm not sure if you can get that deal for the receivers by themselves.

Well even if I'm generous and assume $220 for a 211, which seems to be the price for a new one, the R5000 is still $350-400 by the time you get the Sage addon. I'm wondering if it's really that much better than an HDPVR for $165 or whatever they're going for...

[Chriscic]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Quote:
Originally Posted by iammike
First the obvious, the R5000 gives a slightly better picture since there's no reencoding of the signal. Second, the R5000 install is a breeze. It's pretty much foolproof, or Mike proof in this case. Third, the R5000 is a little bit more configurable. You can set up precodes for it to send prior to actually tuning to the channel you want. This allows you to send a "select" code prior to the channel codes in case the darn thing has gone into standby mode.

FWIW, Sage offers this for any tuner (including the HD PVR), I just set it up since Dish disabled the sleep/update disable function.

May I ask how you did this? Is this for USB-UIRT only or for the Hauppauge IR blaster as well? Thanks.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by Chriscic

May I ask how you did this? Is this for USB-UIRT only or for the Hauppauge IR blaster as well? Thanks.

The R5000 driver contains it's own IR blaster interface, except it's all done via USB and no actual IR emitter to stick on the face of the box.

Consequently, it's extremely reliable, and trivial to set up. No messing with codes, etc... Sage doesn't actually see the IR blaster hardware, it's all taken care of by the R5000-HD app on the system.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Chriscic

May I ask how you did this? Is this for USB-UIRT only or for the Hauppauge IR blaster as well? Thanks.

It's in the IR config, there's a Prefix and Postfix settings. You have to learn a new command (Enter), and then assign that to the pre/postfix settings. With the UIRT you can learn it by just pointing the dish remote at the UIRT, I'm not sure how you add "Enter" to the Hauppauge blaster config.

[mikejaner]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Well even if I'm generous and assume $220 for a 211, which seems to be the price for a new one, the R5000 is still $350-400 by the time you get the Sage addon. I'm wondering if it's really that much better than an HDPVR for $165 or whatever they're going for...

I toyed with the same issue last year, and even though I had to deal with the first revision of the HDPVR needing to be shipped back, therefore loosing a month, I still think it was a smart choice to go with HDPVR's. I just can't see spending $700-$800 on a single tuner, which may or may not be compatible in the future, and ties me to a service. I personally have no issues with the HDPVR, though I am only using the stereo inputs. Some people who complain about stability, I think are dealing with SPDIF issues.

[sic0048]

Originally Posted by mikejaner

I toyed with the same issue last year, and even though I had to deal with the first revision of the HDPVR needing to be shipped back, therefore loosing a month, I still think it was a smart choice to go with HDPVR's. I just can't see spending $700-$800 on a single tuner, which may or may not be compatible in the future, and ties me to a service. I personally have no issues with the HDPVR, though I am only using the stereo inputs. Some people who complain about stability, I think are dealing with SPDIF issues.

That was my thought process. Even if the R5000 boxes were only slightly more than the HD-PVR, I think the added flexibility that the HD-PVR provides is worth any small decrease in picture quality. I don't want to spend $$ for new tuners every time I change providers.

[iammike]

Originally Posted by sic0048

That was my thought process. Even if the R5000 boxes were only slightly more than the HD-PVR, I think the added flexibility that the HD-PVR provides is worth any small decrease in picture quality. I don't want to spend $$ for new tuners every time I change providers.

I considered a second R5000 before purchasing the HD-PVR, but figured I'd save $120 and try it. I figure I can always Ebay the thing and buy a second r5000 mod later though.

Just playing devil's advocate here. In general I agree with you about the flexibility, although my R5000 mod originally lived in a Cband DSR-922 receiver and now is in a Dish 211. That said, there's no R5000 path for Directv. The R5000 is a lot easier to configure and so far more reliable for me than the HD-PVR . I'm going to have to look into Stranger's advice on the precodes though. Also, there's no guarantee the analog hole will stay open forever.

[sic0048]

Originally Posted by iammike

I considered a second R5000 before purchasing the HD-PVR, but figured I'd save $120 and try it. I figure I can always Ebay the thing and buy a second r5000 mod later though.

Just playing devil's advocate here. In general I agree with you about the flexibility, although my R5000 mod originally lived in a Cband DSR-922 receiver and now is in a Dish 211. That said, there's no R5000 path for Directv. The R5000 is a lot easier to configure and so far more reliable for me than the HD-PVR . I'm going to have to look into Stranger's advice on the precodes though. Also, there's no guarantee the analog hole will stay open forever.

All good points which is why the decision can be so hard!

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by iammike

I considered a second R5000 before purchasing the HD-PVR, but figured I'd save $120 and try it. I figure I can always Ebay the thing and buy a second r5000 mod later though.

Just playing devil's advocate here. In general I agree with you about the flexibility, although my R5000 mod originally lived in a Cband DSR-922 receiver and now is in a Dish 211. That said, there's no R5000 path for Directv.

Yeah, that's the problem, the R5000 doesn't support DirecTV, or the new Dish boxes, or most cable boxes. It works fine, but it's getting really hard to take it anywhere.

The R5000 is a lot easier to configure and so far more reliable for me than the HD-PVR . I'm going to have to look into Stranger's advice on the precodes though. Also, there's no guarantee the analog hole will stay open forever.

There are solutions to that though