Can't decide on HD source?

[akenis]

I'd like some help deciding on a HD capture source. Currently use Sage 6.1 in service mode on my server, which is my main viewing source as well. It's a little outdated:

AMD Sempron 2700+
756 Ram
FX 5200 video (VGA out to Samsung LCD)
Happauge 500 MCE (one analogue cable input, the other super video from a cable box)
MVP in the othe room

To watch HD, I have to switch inputs on the TV and amp and I can get OTA HD fairly well. It stutters a bit, but it's just hooked up to a rabit ears.

1. Many months ago I was going to take the plunge on firewire to the STB, but never got around to it. Seems like an overly daunting task now that I could simply add an HD card or get the HDHR. Is there any benefit to the firewire solution, or is that kind of a done deal.

2. HDHR. Seems the masses like the product, and updates are frequent. I like the flexibility...I could go QAM or OTA (with a better antena). I can put it anywhere in the house...higher with an antena. I understnd this box is just for digital signals right? Not sure what I'd receive aside from HD locals. Comcast here in SC has 1-99 as analogue and doesn't rebroadcast stuff in the digital tier, if the do, it's probably encrypted. It gives me 2 HD sources for network shows.

3. Happauge 1600 or combo Avermedia card. Not sure I understand these cards. I guess one side is straight ATSC OTA tuner for digital channels? The other side takes a cable input. Is the second tuner HD capable as well....will it get the same QAM digital as the HDHR....and likewise give me two sources of HD?

4. Hardware....from what I've read I'll probably not be too happy with the video card's output on HD. Will my 5200 vga output work at all with nivida decoder for HD? My mobo has an AGP slot and PCI...which I guess is obsolete as well? Would it be a waste to spend $$$for a better AGP card, when I should be getting PCI express.

5. Hardware...maybe I should just swap out the processor? Read a while back that I could use AMD Athalon XP (barton core). Can't seem to find much online for the socket A (462). Maybe I should just swap out the mobo while I'm at it? What would be a good choice....it's daunting to look at the possibilities.

[paulbeers]

First off, for capture "cards", I would go with the HDHomerun. Just picked one up myself and have just started using it. It is great. I was always annoyed by my rabit ears to my Fusion5 Lite. If the weather was bad or who knows, suddenly I would start to see a loss of signal. Now I just use QAM and I know I will never have to deal with that. I recommend a visit to avsforum.com to find out what channels are "clear qam" in your area if you decide to go the HDHomeRun route, that way you aren't "surprised" by what channels you do or don't get.

Secondly, your system needs a complete overhaul. You MIGHT be able to get by with that XP2700 and a good AGP video card, but then you just spent a fortune on an AGP video card. AGP is outdated and will have no upgrade path in another year. You are better off getting a cheap single Core AMD AM2 socket proc and a PCIE Motherboard. Also AGP cards are more expensive than their PCIE counterparts (and a tad slower due to all new video cards are PCIE native and have to use an AGP "bridge"). I recommend a 6600GT+ or a 7600GS+ or the 8500+ (depending on what "series" of Nvidia you go). I haven't used ATI/AMD vid cards in a long time so I can't recommend much there.

Just my .02 worth.

[lobosrul]

I ordered an 8500 GT (passive cooled) for $99. It should be on my door this afternoon.

I'd recommend that now, but I'll also give a report on how well it works this weekend. I cant imagine their being any problems asside from possible over-heating.

Also I switched to a set of powered "rabbit ears" about a year ago. Only very rarely do I have reception problems anymore (except on FOX for some reason).

[fyodor]

Regarding the video source, there is one significant advantage to firewire-generally there are more channels available. Some people are able to get HBO, Starz, etc (this is rare), with many more able to get TNT, ESPN, and other nonpremium channels. Before ruling it out, I'd recommend testing out your channel coverage with CAPDVHS.

[akenis]

Originally Posted by fyodor

Before ruling it out, I'd recommend testing out your channel coverage with CAPDVHS.

Thanks...found this info at another forum http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...page=128&pp=30

I wan't to check it out soon. Have to wait for sage to stop recording! Never got around to installing that firewire card I bought last summer.

So are you saying that a firewired STB may bring in more channels than the HDHR?

[akenis]

Originally Posted by paulbeers

Secondly, your system needs a complete overhaul. You MIGHT be able to get by with that XP2700 and a good AGP video card, but then you just spent a fortune on an AGP video card. AGP is outdated and will have no upgrade path in another year. You are better off getting a cheap single Core AMD AM2 socket proc and a PCIE Motherboard. Also AGP cards are more expensive than their PCIE counterparts (and a tad slower due to all new video cards are PCIE native and have to use an AGP "bridge"). I recommend a 6600GT+ or a 7600GS+ or the 8500+ (depending on what "series" of Nvidia you go). I haven't used ATI/AMD vid cards in a long time so I can't recommend much there.

Just my .02 worth.

...that's what I was afraid of. So the search began yesterday....

I'm so out of date. I started looking at boards and didn't even know the difference in the sockets. Looks like the AM2 is the newer technology from AMD. Looks like a great choice.

1. Was looking at the Athlon processors..why just single core. Is that a price concern? I though I read somewhere about people having some kind of problem with the X2 cpu's

2. For mobo's, should I get one based on nvidia's chipsets since I'll be using a nvidia video card and nvidia decoders? What's another way to narrow them down...think I want one with onboard sound with digital out. Looks like most only have 2 PCI slots Are the PCIe backward compatible with PCI? Lastly...what is the ultra ATX form factor? How many PCIe slots do I need? Any preferences for mobo makers: Asus, abit, biostar, gigabyte?

This is going to take a lot longer than I though. Thanks for any/all inputs and help bringing me back to modern technology.

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by akenis

So are you saying that a firewired STB may bring in more channels than the HDHR?

IT most definitely may. Every channel I pay for I get over FW, including premiums such as HBO and Showtime. With my HDHR, I pretty much only get my locals and a couple other digital channels.

[paulbeers]

1. Oh there isn't any problem with the X2 processors, my point was just that if cost becomes a concern, even going with a cheap single core AMD would be better off. However, you may want to consider an X2 if you want to watch HD on the main box and transcode HD to your MediaMVP. You should be able to transcode to Standard quality with x2 3800, but for high quality transcoding, I would recommend something like an x2 4600 (or better) or an Intel e6400 (or better). I am using an e4300 and overclocking to 2.4Ghz and have no problems.

2. PCIE and PCI are not backwards compatible. Are you trying to fit your mobo into a microATX or ATX board? ATX often have 3 PCI slots. My recent upgrade, I went with the Gigabyte P945 ATX board (although I should have gone with the P965). They are highly reguarded as far as Intel boards, but for AMD procs I would recommend an Nvidia chipset (MSI is usually my fave, but I would use the user reviews at Newegg).

Let me know if you need any other help.

[akenis]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

IT most definitely may. Every channel I pay for I get over FW, including premiums such as HBO and Showtime. With my HDHR, I pretty much only get my locals and a couple other digital channels.

I got firewire to work from the above post...and stream to VLC device. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to what channels work. Starz channels for example...some work and some don't. None of the local HD channels even play! Lot's of problems with the capdvhs program. It would record a stream fine, but when trying to grab a channel that didn't work, I'd have to reset the firewire connection to make it work again. VLC live steaming was much easier. Wouldn't stream on MPC either.

As far as HD I think I only got 3-4 channels...none of the premiums, not even the locals included. Some of the SD channels would work and some wouldn't. From the recent posts at AVS forums, seems like a lot of people have had their CCI flags changed with STB upgrades...lots of problems.

Don't really see the point in setting this up to work with SAGE. The graphedit stuff seems pretty complicated, and I'm not going to gain much. Also can't imagine how the tuners would look in SAGE...enable some channels for the firewire? But then I'd loose the firewire channel if my 500MCE card wanted to record a different channel and the USBUIRT changes the channel???? Doesn't make any sense.

One benefit though is AC3 audio on a lot of the SD channels. Is that real 5.1 sound or is it mostly stereo mixed into an AC3 stream. That's pretty much what I do on the fly with AC3 filter audio encoder.

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by akenis

There seems to be no rhyme or reason to what channels work.

Your question was if you might be able to get more channels via FW vs. HDHR. The answer to that question is maybe. Ti all depends on your CC. Some of us have been luckier than others in the non-5C'ed channels. I quess I forgot to say YMMV.

Don't really see the point in setting this up to work with SAGE. The graphedit stuff seems pretty complicated, and I'm not going to gain much. Also can't imagine how the tuners would look in SAGE...enable some channels for the firewire? But then I'd loose the firewire channel if my 500MCE card wanted to record a different channel and the USBUIRT changes the channel???? Doesn't make any sense.

Basically if your FW channels are limited, then it may not be worth it. If you had a big enough channel selection, you would need to dedicate an STB for only FW tuning, not hookedup via FW and the 500MCE card. Set up the FW STB with its own EPG lineup (enable only the working FW channels) and Sage won't mess up the FW recording for a recording off second STB hooked up via the 500MCE.

[ToyMaster458]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

IT most definitely may. Every channel I pay for I get over FW, including premiums such as HBO and Showtime. With my HDHR, I pretty much only get my locals and a couple other digital channels.

Now I am only getting local channels with Firewire. If this is the case I may only be able to get local channels with the HDHR also. That would stink!!

[akenis]

I spent a lot of time looking at the posts from the forum listed above. Seems like a lot of people are being severed from their firewired boxes. My limited testing was confusing to say the least...I couldn't even get the local HD channels.

Luckily I get all the OTA channels with a 6" UHF ring sitting next to my TV, so at least I'll get that working with the HDHR (just ordered it). Locals even have multiple channels...three PBS channels.

The whole point of starting with Sage years ago was to stick it to the man and not pay for monthly sat/cable charges. I refuse to give up my one STB and have it dedicated to firewire...$5 a month adds up...that's a lot of beers!

[akenis]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8&page=1&pp=30

Tons of info here on processors, mb, memory...EVERYTHING related to building a computer. Gonna take some time to digest. He's done a lot of work.

What do you guys think about his "leaderboard" midrange system?

[paulbeers]

Its not a bad recommendation at all. I run an e4300 overclocked to 2.4ghz running stock voltage. My recommendations would be as mentioned above with the Gigabyte P965 and I am not a big fan of Samsung HD. They are good hard drives, but seem considerably slower than my favorites (Seagate). Samsung HD's though are supposedly some of the quietest. I have both and honestly can't really tell a difference (then again neither are in a computer sitting next to a tv so it doesn't matter to me).

Edit: Also, if only going running Sage on this box and Windows XP, 1 GB of Ram is enough. I contemplated when I built my server of going to 2 GB, but then I realised it would just be wasted money. My laptop has 2GB and I have only used 1 GB a handful of times (both are Core 2 Duo processors). Just my thoughts though. To each his own.

Edit #2: To transcode to High quality for HD playback on the MVP, you will need to run your Core 2 Duo at approx 2.2Ghz. I know at 1.8Ghz, I was not able to get 100% studder free and from there I went to 2.4Ghz. Per Flavius, at only 20% overclock on the E4300, you should get studder free playback.

[akenis]

1. Thanks for the rec on 1GB ram vice 2GB. Saves about $40 bucks, and I read elsewhere that there's no performance increase. Ordered 2X512 sticks t use dual channel support. 800 speed recommended for the Overclocking of the e4300.

2. Confused on the Mobo now. From the building thread: The best chipset for Core 2 Duo is Intel P965/G965. So my first picks are from motherboards based on them. The NVIDIA nForce 600i Series chipsets are also very nice, but its main target is enthusiast SLI gamers. If you are going to use your HTPC also as a gaming machine, that could be your choice.

Looked at newwegg for a GB P965 based board. Couldn't find the right suffix:

* Suffix

1. S2: Safe + Smart
2. DS2: Safe + Smart + Durability Enhanced
3. S3: Safe + Smart + Speed
4. DS3: Safe + Smart + Speed + Durability Enhanced
5. DS4: Safe + Smart + Speed + Silent-Pipe + Durability Enhanced
6. DQ6: DS4 + 6-Quand Features

That means:

o Overclocking:
+ S2, DS2: No overclocking options in BIOS
+ S3, DS3: Good overclocking options in BIOS
+ DS4, DQ6: Slightly finer overclocking options in BIOS than S3 and DS3
o Heatsinks:
+ S2, DS2, S3, DS3: Conventional passive heatsinks on both northbridge and southbridge.
+ DS4, DQ6: Passive heatsinks on northbridge and southbridge connected with MOSFET modules by heat-pipes
o Capacitors:
+ S2, S3: All electrolytic capacitors
+ DS2, DS3, DS4, DQ6: All solid capacitors
o 6-Quad Features include 12 Phase Power, 4 x external SATA and quad-core ready.

Was thinking about the DS4. Lots of revisions for these boards also. Firewire support seems to be lacking on most.

3. Wasn't actually planning on a new hard drive. Just wasted $40 on a 250 GB WD IDE drive. I currently have 2 X 250 IDE drives. The first has two partitions, one for the OS and the rest for videos. The second is all videos. How much am I missing out by not getting a faster SATA disk? Maybe I'd be better off putting the OS on a new SATA drive and using my old IDE drives just for videos. Do the videos care what kind of drive they're on?

4. Now I'm thinking about the OS also. Should I stick with stable Win XP pro? Not too overy keen about Vista at this point, but what about XP pro 64 bit. Does that make any difference for a Sage server and main viewer machine?

Thanks for all the help guys. Definitley taking longer than I thought....The HDHR will be here soon waiting for a new server!

[bcjenkins]

So.. I just recently upgraded my system.. I went with the Asus Commando because it offered 4 PCI slots and I am using all 4. I briefly looked through the thread, but do you have a list of requirements for the new system?

re Vista vs. XP. I would go XP (Server 2K3 if you aren't using it as a client) 64 bit XP has issues with drivers for HW. Just make sure all devices will have drivers for the OS.

B

[paulbeers]

This would be my choice of board if it were me:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128012

The P965 was just the chipset used.

Also, any of the gigabyte boards have only 1 IDE port which means either you drop all IDE Optical drives for SATA optical or drop your PATA hard drives and buy SATA. You never want to run an optical drive and a PATA hard drive on the same IDE port.

And I second using XP over Vista. Annoyances of Vista aside, XP will use less ram (yes I understand how Vista uses memory, it still uses more for "basic" funtionality).

[bcjenkins]

Whatever board you purchase may benefit from dual on board nics. One nic for SageTV to HD Homerun private lan and the other for feeding out through the rest of your infrastructure.

just a thought.

B

[akenis]

Thanks again guys...

excellent point on the IDE ports. Forgot about where I'd have to hook up the optical drives. For simplicity and $$$ sake, I think I should stay focused on a board with 2 IDE for now. What about running the OS off a newer SATA drive. Any benefits to that.

Another good point on the dual Lan. I don't do much with the server aside from streaming to an MVP occasionally and getting the stream from future HDHR. Routers are aren't Gigabyte capable yet. Would there be a problem capturing 2 X HD streams and sending out a transcoded one to the MVP over the same NIC?

I'll stick with 32 Bit XP pro for now I guess.

Back to the drawing board.

Edit: I guess I could hook up my IDE opticals to a SATA port with this? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812156010

[bcjenkins]

I ended up buying a sata dvd drive myself.. (32 bucks on the egg) by way of reference, I ended up going to the Commando from a different board because the first board only had 100mb on it and it was running out of room on the nic.

B